Livery yards and winter turnout?

I couldn't possibly stay somewhere where my horse couldn't have daily turnout at grass.

I grew up in South Devon where every yard I was ever at offered 24/7 turnout 365 days a year!

I now live in the East Midlands and most yards I've came across allow full daily turnout with the horses coming in overnight during the worst winter months.

My lad is currently at a private yard where they are out with great grazing for around 8-10 hours a day. If there has been days of relentless rain they will stay in for an odd day here and there but can go out in the school and have use of the horse walker so they aren't cooped up indoors.

To me allowing horses the space and time to just be horses is all important. My TB becomes entirely unmanageable if he doesn't get enough turnout and is a much happier chap when kept more naturally
 
I think no turn out is cruel as well.
We are in the north east, my yard is on heavy clay and low lying however the yard owner has invested heavily in drainage for the fields and we have 24/7 turnout in summer and at least 8 hours a day turnout in winter. We only have one patch of mud on the entire farm and non in the paddocks, the horses always want out and we have far too much grass even now!
Last winter horses spent a total of 3 days in due to the weather and they were all individual days to give time for flooding to subside (24hrs is all it takes due to the drainage)
 
I personally wouldn't livery at a yard where there was no winter turnout, I'd constantly feel guilty about my horse being cooped up in her stable. Turnout is so important for a horse's mental, physical and social wellbeing. I wouldn't mind hardcore turnout in winter though.
Mine is currently out from 8.30 until around 6.30 every day, on heavy clay in very wet Scotland. High traffic areas of our fields are very wet, muddy and poached, but there is still decent grass and plenty of drier areas. Nobody really hangs around the gate waiting to come in as of yet.
 
I recently left a livery yard due to the restricted turnout in winter - they were only allowed turnout in TINY 'paddocks' (I would call them pens) that were, no exaggeration, the size of a small garden. They were initially out in pairs but it was the last straw for me when the YO actually suggested putting FOUR large 16hh+ horses in one of these together. It would have been ridiculously dangerous. My horse has always had quirks but his behaviour whilst at this yard became unmanageable and he was becoming unrideable as he had so much pent up energy. YO actually had the cheek to call my horse 'unruly' when it was her turnout restrictions that were worsening his behaviour. He's now on a yard that has daytime winter turnout in a proper field, and although he's always keen to come in overnight and it does turn into a mud bog, I'd rather that than have him in a tiny pen again!
 
I always love these types of threads... There's always "holier than thou" type comments. Every horse owner and yard is different, so you have to work with what you have!
 
wench said:
I always love these types of threads... There's always "holier than thou" type comments. Every horse owner and yard is different, so you have to work with what you have!
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Or better still vote with your feet and leave the non turnout yards to those whose horses can cope. Personally quite apart from the horse's need to move and graze and socialise, I would hate to have to keep clean a stable which doesn't get a whole day to air.
 
I have in the past kept a horse at DIY livery with restricted year round turnout (1 hour per day in the winter, 1.5 hours a day in the summer). This was common in the area (the Wirral).

Whilst this is not ideal, in practice it worked very well. The horses were all happy and settled, but they were all in medium to hard work. There was excellent and varied hacking, too.

Restricted turnout certainly wouldn't suit a horse that wasn't being ridden, or was in light work.

BTW I favour 24/7 turnout, but accept that in some areas it may not be practical.
 
wench said:
I always love these types of threads... There's always "holier than thou" type comments. Every horse owner and yard is different, so you have to work with what you have!
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Spot on! And that's the bit I really find irritating on this thread . who has the right to judge someone on the quality and happiness of their horse just on the basis of whether it does or does not get turned out in a field in winter!

Sometimes for some horses turning out even for just an hour in a deep clay saturated field can result in disaster. Mine fits this catogory I failed to mention that in my previous post as I think that no turnout as long as the horse gets out and about daily is fed and warm then your have a happy horse.
 
Easy to say "vote with your feet" but may not be that easy in reality! I keep my horses on a DIY yard near my house, I don't drive. There are no yards within walking distance that allow 24/7/365 turnout. We have individual paddocks but my two horses share so I effectively have two small paddocks. We are on heavy clay and my winter paddock is an old orchard, which is fab for shelter but the grass does not grow that well due to shade and tree roots. We manage our paddocks ourselves, so can turnout whenever we want, but after a few days of rain the paddock will try to sloppy mud. I therefore bring them in at night during winter and turn out most days for 4-8 hours. However there are some days when, to ensure turnout for as long as possible during winter, they will have to stay in for a few days. As long as they have plenty of hay and a chance to stretch their legs, they tolerate this arrangement very well.
 
Bertolie said:
Easy to say "vote with your feet" but may not be that easy in reality! I keep my horses on a DIY yard near my house, I don't drive. There are no yards within walking distance that allow 24/7/365 turnout. We have individual paddocks but my two horses share so I effectively have two small paddocks. We are on heavy clay and my winter paddock is an old orchard, which is fab for shelter but the grass does not grow that well due to shade and tree roots. We manage our paddocks ourselves, so can turnout whenever we want, but after a few days of rain the paddock will try to sloppy mud. I therefore bring them in at night during winter and turn out most days for 4-8 hours. However there are some days when, to ensure turnout for as long as possible during winter, they will have to stay in for a few days. As long as they have plenty of hay and a chance to stretch their legs, they tolerate this arrangement very well.
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you could still vote with your feet by either learning to drive so you can access the better yards or get a bike like one of the ladies at my yard does, she doesn't drive but keeps her horse a 30 min drive from her house, takes her about 45mins to cycle.
 
It's a massive assumption that there are always better choices of yards .
In some areas there just is not .
Land use is going to get tighter and tighter and horses type amenity use will get squeezed .
 
Goldenstar said:
It's a massive assumption that there are always better choices of yards .
In some areas there just is not .
Land use is going to get tighter and tighter and horses type amenity use will get squeezed .
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agree
also although a lot of people say they would always put turn out first over other facilities at a yard, if you do compete or like schooling you could easily be swayed by an all-weather flood lit arena, at a yard with less grazing, versus a yard with great grazing, but no options to ride over the winter
I rent land, about 8-10 acres with 4 horses, but it does get wet and not great quality grass. however, despite great land, facilities wise we have no school or floodlights. so I do just accept no riding except sundays from mid-october.
people pay a lot for their horses and want to enjoy them, and compromises pretty much always have to be made somewhere.
 
Some of these comments annoy me! In an ideal world I'd love my horses to live out on a paradise track system, have an indoor and excellent off road hacking! Unfortunately I live in the real world and this means restricted winter turnout. I've managed for 7 years with 3 different horses. It's hard and yes I feel guilty but I'm not about to give up horses. Mine are exercised everyday and turned out as often as the can be. As for renting a field or small yard in my area I'd have more luck finding rocking horse poo!!!
 
conniegirl said:
you could still vote with your feet by either learning to drive so you can access the better yards or get a bike like one of the ladies at my yard does, she doesn't drive but keeps her horse a 30 min drive from her house, takes her about 45mins to cycle.
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I'm 53 years old and not about to start learning to drive at my age! The nearest yard that would allow unrestricted winter turnout would take me around an hour to cycle to. I leave for work at 7am and get home at 6pm. I would need to leave home at 4 am to be able to cycle to the yard, do my chores, and get back home to get ready for work. I wouldn't get to the yard in the evening until gone 7pm and would be lucky to be home again by 9am. All this would have to be done in the dark, cycling round quiet unlit country lanes! Also, this yard does not have a school so horses wouldnt be ridden during the week. All for the sake of not having my horses in their stables for a few days here and there?
 
I moved from my last yard because the horses could not go out over winter, not because of yard rules, but because it was too dangerous as you were walking 300m down a track where the mud was over your ankles and the gateways were so deep that it was nearly up to your knees.
The new yard has separate grazing for winter and summer. The winter turnout is limited to daylight hours only, but that is better than 0 hours.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Unfortunately it seems to be that it is the horse which is most affected by the compromise, rather than the owner in too many cases.
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This

With an ever increasing human population there will be less land available for other species including horses. Therefore there either has to be fewer horses or they have to be kept in situations where they get less movement. This is an issue for a species designed to move for the majority of the day far more so than humans.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Unfortunately it seems to be that it is the horse which is most affected by the compromise, rather than the owner in too many cases.
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This. And To the poster that said threads like this annoy them, being locked in a stable for 22 hours a day 5 months of the year probably annoys the poor horse more.
 
I'm with GS. More and more yards are closing with the changes in planning laws and being developed as houses. I am in Surrey and see constant pressure the try to build houses in ridiculous places (including the field behind our houses...they tried to get permission for a housing estate...just after we had had the worst floods in over 40 years and 2/3 of my road were badly flooded). Sometimes compromises do have to be made but I do wonder at the future of livery yards in general. I have chosen to keep my horse in over the weekend and will probably do so for a couple more days as I am trying to get of mud fever but he is normally out 8-4. No way I am going to try to bring him in after dark as our path up is clay and horribly muddy...!
 
Junglefairy I agree I'm sure my horses are probably more annoyed than me about it, but unfortunately its the norm where I am. I have looked at moving but I'd be travelling over an hour each way twice a day, juggling work and family. So should I just sell them? I've had horses for over 30 years it's in my blood I can't just give up because I have limited winter turnout 😔.
 
fishy said:
Junglefairy I agree I'm sure my horses are probably more annoyed than me about it, but unfortunately its the norm where I am. I have looked at moving but I'd be travelling over an hour each way twice a day, juggling work and family. So should I just sell them? I've had horses for over 30 years it's in my blood I can't just give up because I have limited winter turnout 😔.
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I can somewhat empathise, horses are in my blood too. I recently spent 4 years horseless because I didn't live somewhere with suitable livery. I chose to move to an area where I could get 24/7 turnout. Unfortunately that means a 1.5 hour each way daily commute and 20 minute drive to the yard. But I believe that if I choose to keep a horse then it is my moral obligation to provide it with suitable care.
 
Horses are adaptable creatures; there are many places where keeping horses stabled or penned is the norm, and the horses are perfectly happy with this arrangement, just as there are horses who don't like being out. Horses are not always best managed with endless access to pasture (see many, many threads on here about overweight, mud fever, sweet itch, etc.), or with being out in muddy slop holes. As long as they have adequate exercise I have no problem with horses being kept in stables, but I fear this is perhaps the real problem; people who don't have the necessary time or motivation to give horses the work they need.
 
Some of us unfortunately live in very wet areas with predominately clay soils so can't have 24/7 turnout year round. My yards has daily turnout except in exceptional conditions but they are in overnight during Winter. On the odd days they can't go out they go on the walker and also have a run around in a school. It's the best we can do.
 
I've heard it is quite common for some livery yards to have very limited turnout in winter or none at all.
I think it depends on the area as some drain better etc.

I would never stay long term on a yard like this though.
Turnout ls a massive thing for me.
 
Tiddlypom said:
^^^ Cortez, glad you've posted :). Horses can adapt to minimal turnout, but they must be adequately exercised.
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I absolutely agree. When I was at college (some years ago) the horses were only turned out at the weekend and for the summer holiday. They were all happy and settled. They had a minimum of 2 hrs exercise every day, usually more and mostly intensive schooling or jumping, and in between were often used being used for stable management or horse care demo's or practice. They also had some "twin" stables where pair bonds could be stabled with only had a low wall between and could interact, groom etc. The horses were all older ex-competition horses, they did also try to have a youngster around so they could show students how to handle them but they only stayed for a few weeks each.

Unless a livery yard is only full livery (including exercise), working livery, or a specialist yard of some other kind where all the horses are in full work I still thinks its fundamentally wrong for a YO to only offer 1 hours turnout all through winter.
 
I would not livery at a yard without adequate daily turnout. Exercise is all very good but turnout is the horses 'free time'. A chance to be a horse without restraints. Yes, horses may accept a routine that is contrary to their instincts , but that isn't necessarily an indication of their contentment.
 
gunnergundog said:
The problem appears to me to be that most people nowadays don't seem to be aware of the quantity/quality/intensity of exercise that a horse requires/is capable of.
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Agree. And what about the social/ psychological benefits of turnout? Horses don't get 'social' time from being ridden/ exercised.
 
ChesnutsRoasting said:
I would not livery at a yard without adequate daily turnout. Exercise is all very good but turnout is the horses 'free time'. A chance to be a horse without restraints. Yes, horses may accept a routine that is contrary to their instincts , but that isn't necessarily an indication of their contentment.
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My thoughts exactly! :) You put it much better than I could.
 
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