Livery yards and winter turnout?

[Enfys]

As per normal on this forum, this post has appeared to be turning into a bitching fest!! QUOTE]

Not just HHO, any forum, this is a Grade A slag fest subject

QUOTE]

Do people not get fed up of being slagged off all the time? I know I did when it happened to me and I found it very upsetting.

Take it with an entire block of salt and move on, very few people on here actually know each other, or individual horses, circumstances etc, so most things that are said on here are just personal experiences and opinions. Sometimes it is just a lot of hooey and maybe those people read a lot, watch You Tube and actually live in some dreary high rise apartment block in a smoky city and are just keyboard warriors, whatever, if someone really gets you down just imagine some fat, wrinkly person with their pants around their ankles on the loo, not so scarey or perfect then. Works for me

 

[Enfys]

No, not a riding centre. Just a livery yard! YO lives on-site and the yard is 'closed' so one day per week, no constant traffic in and out. It's unusual, yes, but the horses are taken care of just like any other day (staff still work etc). Bank holidays are 'open' days, so it's not the strictest rule. If you needed to come up for whatever reason, you'd never be told 'no'. We have no restrictions any other day. Can come and go as we please.

It wouldn't suit some people, but it suits us just fine it's a compromise for a lovely yard and lovely YO.

Aha, thanks, I see. I can see the merits of it, and why not? if it works for you all, no problem

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Interesting comments with the general thoughts being yard owners should provide 12 month turnout.

Assuming the majority of people commenting are on DIY. What would you consider an appropriate weekly charge for DIY with 12 month turnout to be ? I appreciate that some yards will have schools etc, but in general what is considered a fair diy charge. No hay etc provided, just your box water/power, storage and no or little restriction on grazing.

We have two large individual paddocks each. We have all year daily turn out but are not permitted to turn out at night time. We have large stables, lots of storage, proper toilet, heated tack and rug room plus a 60x30 rubber/sand school which is minimally lit and fabulous hacking for £150 a month. Spraying and pasture maintenance such as harrowing and rolling is a bit hit and miss but fences are mended fairly promptly and the fields are topped. There are no additional services provided by the yard.

 

[gunnergundog]

if someone really gets you down just imagine some fat, wrinkly person with their pants around their ankles on the loo, not so scarey or perfect then. Works for me

Good advice! Everyone is human and needs to breathe and cr*p!

This was precisely how I used to imagine Lord Weinstock when I had to deal with him in the 80's! (No disrespect intended, but he was .....errrm.....a tad difficult and had a reputation of being a bit of a b*gger! Had some great race horses though - especially Troy!)

 

[charlie76]

Makes me wonder why people bother offering livery at all, it cannot be for the money. For all those who think livery yard owners are "greedy", if they were to charge enough to really make it pay there would be a significant number of people who would simply not be able to afford to have a horse.

Where's the like button!!

 

[MochaDun]

I have been at two very different yards with my horse - first one 12 geldings out together in one field and all in at night during winter and while the field was an utter bog within weeks of the winter routine they could go out each day (9am-3pm) and only were kept in on occasion when weather was just too wild or if you chose to on certain days yourself (usually due to mud fever or to give your horse a break from the mud). Would depend on the type of winter weather though too. YO also asked sometimes to only put out for a few hours at weekends but not many adhered to that or were helpful about it.

Yard I'm on now has paddocks for 4-5 horses and well managed, again all in at night from Nov to end April, probably 8am-4pm ish. We do expect on odd days after endless rain not to be able to turn out or in very high winds but think across the 2 winters I've been there now it's been no more than 6 or so individual days across the entire winter they've had to stay in. For example this today was the first day they've had to stay in as we were due utter gales this afternoon and have had more or less rain each day for about the last fortnight.

Personally I wouldn't go anywhere that wouldn't allow winter turnout.

 

[Bertolie]

Spot on, as was Be Positive's reply, and a very real reason why many yards do not do DIY.

Let use the simple figure of £100pcm, so £1200 a year.

Post and rail is £10/12 a metre. Dump of hardcore, top dress planings and the digger to do a wet gateway £350. Contractor in at spring time to harrow and rectify. Fert. Replace the snapped off gate post which would not have happened had the gate not been left swinging in the wind. £80. Bit of creosote splashed around the stables, water bill, power bill, chewed stable door, muck heap spread or remove etc etc.

I pay £100 pm DIY livery.
Post and rail - we have to do our own fencing!
Dump of hardcore, too dress plantings to do a wet gate way - no hardcore allowed, like it or lump it!
Harrow and fertilise - not a chance (might get my paddocks rolled if my son borrows the tractor and roller and does it for me!)
Replace the gate - yes this would get done
Creosote or paint for stables - only if you do it yourself (at your own cost)
Water bill, power bill, muck heap spread - yes!

Seems to me that my (totally DIY) YO does ok (though I stand to be corrected).

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Round here only one yard I knew of restricted daily turnout ( back in the 1990's ) our horses go out 8 hours most day in winter but less at weekends as we have a lie in. That said all the owners agree to this as even by the least they have at least 6 hours, I would never be at a yard that restricted turnout unless there was a bl00dy good reason like they don't have any fields and are in a town.

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

I pay £100 pm DIY livery.
Post and rail - we have to do our own fencing!
Dump of hardcore, too dress plantings to do a wet gate way - no hardcore allowed, like it or lump it!
Harrow and fertilise - not a chance (might get my paddocks rolled if my son borrows the tractor and roller and does it for me!)
Replace the gate - yes this would get done
Creosote or paint for stables - only if you do it yourself (at your own cost)
Water bill, power bill, muck heap spread - yes!

Seems to me that my (totally DIY) YO does ok (though I stand to be corrected).

I'm with you. Two acres ( that otherwise would not be utililised) & a stable for £150 pcm. The YO does FA. I maintain my paddock, fencing & stable.

 

[be positive]

I pay £100 pm DIY livery.
Post and rail - we have to do our own fencing!
Dump of hardcore, too dress plantings to do a wet gate way - no hardcore allowed, like it or lump it!
Harrow and fertilise - not a chance (might get my paddocks rolled if my son borrows the tractor and roller and does it for me!)
Replace the gate - yes this would get done
Creosote or paint for stables - only if you do it yourself (at your own cost)
Water bill, power bill, muck heap spread - yes!

Seems to me that my (totally DIY) YO does ok (though I stand to be corrected).

If you could find a couple of acres to purchase with a building on in an accessible location it would probably cost in the region of £50k, if it was attached to a house it would be worth far more, if you put down a 10% deposit the £100 per month you pay would not cover the month repayments which would be around £150+ per month before any addition costs, it is why so many yards do end up over stocked for the land available, if the YO is paying a mortgage/ rent £100 per month for DIY is going to barely make a dent in the outgoings.

A small yard in Glos, link below, £200k for 10 acres no arena and just 4 boxes, 10% deposit will leave a monthly payment of over £600 per month if you could get a mortgage on it, to make a return by renting it out each box would need to be £200 per month and that would probably still leave the owner out of pocket not to mention wear and tear to the buildings and fencing.
http://www.ruralscene.co.uk/media/uploads/properties/THEPADDOCKS_JN3744.pdf

 

[Sussexbythesea]

If you could find a couple of acres to purchase with a building on in an accessible location it would probably cost in the region of £50k, if it was attached to a house it would be worth far more, if you put down a 10% deposit the £100 per month you pay would not cover the month repayments which would be around £150+ per month before any addition costs, it is why so many yards do end up over stocked for the land available, if the YO is paying a mortgage/ rent £100 per month for DIY is going to barely make a dent in the outgoings.

A small yard in Glos, link below, £200k for 10 acres no arena and just 4 boxes, 10% deposit will leave a monthly payment of over £600 per month if you could get a mortgage on it, to make a return by renting it out each box would need to be £200 per month and that would probably still leave the owner out of pocket not to mention wear and tear to the buildings and fencing.
http://www.ruralscene.co.uk/media/uploads/properties/THEPADDOCKS_JN3744.pdf

You would surely be an idiot to purchase such a property if your aim was to profit from it though. Most people buy a property such as this for themselves and their horses and then try and make some money to subsidise it. No point in whinging about it when the figures don't stack up to start with. Also you forget that properties normally at least over the long term appreciate in value so this in itself is profit. If your also living there then you've paid for it whether or not you take on any liveries.

A lot of yards are run by families over generations or as a side-line to farming so their mortgages were paid off years ago or are small compared to the value of the property.

 

[be positive]

You would surely be an idiot to purchase such a property if your aim was to profit from it though. Most people buy a property such as this for themselves and their horses and then try and make some money to subsidise it. No point in whinging about it when the figures don't stack up to start with. Also you forget that properties normally at least over the long term appreciate in value so this in itself is profit. If your also living there then you've paid for it whether or not you take on any liveries.

A lot of yards are run by families over generations or as a side-line to farming so their mortgages were paid off years ago or are small compared to the value of the property.

I was just making the point that people seem to think most YO's are doing well out of DIY at £100 per month when in reality there will be no return on the capital investment and little left after other bills are paid, the livery is getting the use of a facility that they would have to pay considerably more for if they had to purchase, unlike houses where renting is generally higher than buying giving some return on the investment for landlords as well as a possible increase in value.
If the mortgages are paid off then yes they are in a good position but many yards do have to make a profit to pay the bills even if there is no mortgage/ rent to be paid first, livery is generally very cheap in comparison to most businesses, if there is an appreciation in capital value then the YO should benefit, not the liveries who have taken no risk and to an extent have their hobby subsidised.

 

[Cocorules]

Agree with be positive. You let a residential property and expect to get a return on that which factors in the cost of purchase and the capital and income return. If I let my house and my separate land per £ spent on purchase I would get far more for letting the house. My land is great as it has direct access to brilliant off road riding has post and rail and shelters and is maintained. My house is a dive by comparison.

YOs should be charging far more but until they do so collectively and actually run it as a proper business they will not get the return they need to keep it at a decent standard and provide the facilities liveries want.

In time either this will happen and there will be fewer horses or horses will live with far less turnout.

 

[Dolsey1]

I think it's more common in some parts of the country than others. I think it depends on how many horses are on the yard and how overstocked the YO has the fields.

DIY livery these days is just not worth offering for the YO!

 

[unicornystar]

As per normal on this forum, this post has appeared to be turning into a bitching fest!! Yes people are allowed to have their own opinions but not at the detriment of others.

Why are people so judgemental of others? Why is it always the same few people, time and time again?

Mud fever is caused by the bacterial agent dermatophilus congolensis and can happen to any horse at any time. Yes its usually found in muddy fields but it is also found living on the skin of horses and develops into mud fever by prolonged wet conditions, not necessarily mud, long grass can cause it too. It can be caused by abrasions on the skin through sand as well as dirt which allows the bacteria in. Cattle sheep and goats are also affected!

So its not always a case of owners being negligent in turning horses out into thick mud paddocks!

totally agree!!! mud fever can strike mid summer on dry paddocks like you say it is bacterial......

 

[unicornystar]

Not sure who you think is being slagged off all the time Applecart .
One poster said that there was no excuse for horses not being turned out eight hours which I thought was silly because I can think of dozens and dozens of reasons why a horse could not be out for eight hours a day everyday ,but they where not aiming it at anyone in particular .
I think the interesting thing here is how people think we get round the fact that land is expensive ,many yards don't have enough and what you do about it .

applecart twas me who made a comment and as goldenstar says it wasn't aimed at having a go at anyone, it's just something I am passionate about I suppose.....land is as goldstar says at a premium and more housing will indeed be built as time goes on.....myself and goldenstar have not "fallen out" it is debate/adult and in real life if either of us was at the side of the road in trouble with horses, we would undoubtedly help each other!!

Forums can be judgemental as it is easy to rant on, but never take it to heart, there are far worse things in life and if something upsets you then ignore or avoid it, only a few people on here actually know me and their opinion is all I care about. Horses are bloomin emotive at the best of times!!!!!

 

[Goldenstar]

Where did anyone say people whose horses got mud fever where negilent .
And it certainly can have a fungal element I know this because the land in the valley where I live is notorious for it .

 

[Goldenstar]

Having differing views and expressing them is not falling out or having a bitchfest .
It's IMO one of best about the forum it makes you think about what you do and why

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I just wanted to say that I hope I didn't upset you GS when I said that I found your post funny. It was meant in good spirits (which can be hard to convey in a forum post).

 

[Goldenstar]

I just wanted to say that I hope I didn't upset you GS when I said that I found your post funny. It was meant in good spirits (which can be hard to convey in a forum post).

It's very kind of you to post that but not necessary .

 

[*Sahara]

We are a small yard and have less land than horses, our land is VERY well maintained and we have loads of grass. I would NEVER restrict my horses turnout so I could rest the fields as I don't need too as I always have two resting at anyone time. IF and that is a big IF the land by some miracle stops coping then I would get rid of a livery or two.

We have been told we have one of the best grazing around and I do not want our reputation to get to "oh don't go there their grazing is cr4p "
A field is a normal place for a horse to stretch his legs - eat- snooze and have fun. Sorry I would find somewhere else.


If this yard is worried about their grazing , then they ought to sit down and work out why it is not coping . If it is the owner does not like fields getting trashes, then maybe they should think if a yard is what they want as winter does trash it to a degree but it bounces backs after a few months

Agree with this completely ^

 

[Queenbee]

Its never been something I've experienced but then I would never move to a yard that had this policy, moreover I would move from any yard that tried to instill this policy. We are lucky down in Cornwall... lots of land even with lots of horses! Ben would not mind it so much as he loves his stable, but he also loves a good hoon around the field! Even though I can turn him out and 20 mins later he will ask to come in, if I leave the yard he will go back to eating grass. My old mare hated being stabled and I could not imagine what 23 hrs stalled would have done to her.

 

[sport horse]

I am in the South East, some 20 miles from Central London but outside the M25 and maybe we are just beginning to see a foretaste of what is to come.
I can count, without trying, at least 10 yards within 8 miles that have closed in the last 12 months - a total of nearly 175 livery spaces
I know of more than 5 others that are likely to go within the next few months. All being redeveloped for housing.
The remaining yards have pretty much given up DIY - I do not know of one yard within 4 miles of here that takes DIY and there were probably at least 10.
I have my own farm so very lucky. I used to take one or two liveries but no longer do, and I have no plans to take any again.

 

[*Sahara]

Take it with an entire block of salt and move on, very few people on here actually know each other, or individual horses, circumstances etc, so most things that are said on here are just personal experiences and opinions. Sometimes it is just a lot of hooey and maybe those people read a lot, watch You Tube and actually live in some dreary high rise apartment block in a smoky city and are just keyboard warriors, whatever, if someone really gets you down just imagine some fat, wrinkly person with their pants around their ankles on the loo, not so scarey or perfect then. Works for me

You made my day Enfys