Livery yards being closed, banned from seeing our horses

paddy555

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The worlds leading virologists don't know precisely how this virus is being transmitted but if you have privileged info you should probably share it with them


are you for real? people are dying from this and NHS staff are put at risk each time they go to work. Perhaps you are one of the people not taking suitable precautions and are therefore at risk of spreading it. Or perhaps getting it yourself!

Perhaps we should just all carry on as normal and idc the scientists will work it all out and come up with a consensus then we could consider isolation if that is what they advise.

As for livery yard owners, their yard, their health and their rules which is very sad for some of their owners in a lockdown.
 

Expo

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Not read the whole thread, but like many others we are one hour time slots to visit, working round YM and staff who go first thing and then pm to bring in etc. All ours are full or part livery: no DIYs so easier to manage.

Could someone please clarify whether a one hour visit to yard counts as my daily “outing” or is it an extra, deemed essential to look after livestock? I also have dogs to walk and can’t take them to the yard with me, and hubby is currently crippled with a bad back so no help with any animal care. I’m confused but trying to do the right thing.
 

Auslander

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How adults conduct themselves when they are renting a space from you/buying a service is really beyond the limits of what you can reasonably influence

It most certainly isn't! I ask people to respect my wishes/follow my rules when they are on my property, and I am more than prepared to lay down the law if it ever becomes necessary. This means that my yard is a nice place, with contented horses and happy owners. My liveries are carefully chosen, so we rarely have any conflict, and the couple of bad apples I've had over the years have been asked to leave pronto.
If people think its ok to completely disregard a perfectly reasonable request from the owner of the property, particularly when it relates to biosecurity during a global pandemic, then they are not people that would be welcome to remain on my yard
 

Upthecreek

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Replying to Expo: This hasn’t been made completely clear but my understanding is that if your horse in on full livery, therefore it’s basic care is being provided by the yard, you shouldn’t be going there at all. It is only deemed essential travel if it is necessary for you to go to the yard because you are the one providing the essential care (feeding, rugging etc).

Regarding the permitted once a day exercise this should be done from your home (as in you shouldn’t be driving somewhere to take the exercise).

47AB098A-4FB9-4F78-97DF-758C573A806F.jpeg
 

Expo

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Replying to Expo: This hasn’t been made completely clear but my understanding is that if your horse in on full livery, therefore it’s basic care is being provided by the yard, you shouldn’t be going there at all. It is only deemed essential travel if it is necessary for you to go to the yard because you are the one providing the essential care (feeding, rugging etc).

Regarding the permitted once a day exercise this should be done from your home (as in you shouldn’t be driving somewhere to take the exercise).

View attachment 42872

Yes, thank you. I thought as much. My boy is on full livery and the YM is taking good care of him, but she has put in place slots to give us all a bit of pony time. With regards to going out, yes, I'm walking doggy once a day from home and we are very lucky to have some open access heathland and woods very close by so I can walk there, let the dog have a good run and never see a soul. I appreciate that not everyone is so fortunate. I do know folks, though, who are going out for their daily exercise and are also going to their horses, classing the horse visit as "essential" even though it's on full livery. I guess making a set of "one size fits all" rules under these circumstances is just about impossible and everyone is just looking for a way to make the restrictions work, whilst staying within them. The YM is simply trying to do her best, but needs to accommodate the needs of the part liveries who do their own mucking out. This means the full liveries are effectively blocked from seeing their horses, which seems a bit as if we are being penalised somehow. <<sigh>> ... not whinging, just trying to do my best like everyone.

Our local police are also using similar notices to these.

Maybe the answer is for the yard to lift to "no dogs" embargo whilst the crisis continues. Then we could do a dog walk and pony visit all in one.
 

MissTyc

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I am fortunate that I can combine my exercise, the dog walk, and the horse care into a single route on foot from the house, so I get everything done all at once.

On my yard we've agreed to no riding (we don't have an arena and anyway it's against the spirit of a lock down as it encourages people to hang around on yard for longer than essential), we have set visiting windows to minimise presence on the yard to a max of 8 people at a time - this is the number of people we believe can safely be one site socially distanced. We have locked away the coffee machine.

On the way home this morning at 7am, I ran into an old acquaintance who also runs a livery yard. He told me he got two new liveries moved in YESTERDAY because their "stupid YO" had banned riding ... then told me his 12yo daughter was still training at 120m because her horse is "psycho" and would "kill himself" if not exercised daily ... This person also happens to work for a major supermarket. Exposure, exposure, exposure. And we're surprised this thing is spreading?

Until that moment, I broadly thought most people were on the same page here, but apparently not.

My reactive dog is getting more reactive. My fat cob is obviously at risk from spring grass, my sports horses are getting "excitable" but I've turned everything away because I genuinely believe this could be our best, and maybe only, chance of slowing this thing down.

No one is immune from the virus or from an accident. If people try to find ways to circumvent the spirit of the rules, then we will simply get locked down tighter by the government.
 

Honey08

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Why?

How does any of the above affect you in the slightest?

I agree it puts the people concerned at a higher risk and probably isn't in the spirit of the government guidelines but if they stay 2m apart then so what?

How adults conduct themselves when they are renting a space from you/buying a service is really beyond the limits of what you can reasonably influence
Ppp

Are you for real?? When the “space” they rent from me is in my home where my elderly parents live it does affect me! What’s the point of me and my family trying to isolate when people coming to the yard aren’t?
Why?

How does any of the above affect you in the slightest?

I agree it puts the people concerned at a higher risk and probably isn't in the spirit of the government guidelines but if they stay 2m apart then so what?

How adults conduct themselves when they are renting a space from you/buying a service is really beyond the limits of what you can reasonably influence

No. The “space” rented is also where I live. If people are not isolating themselves and being sensible I don’t want them around. I’m using the yard myself and looking after elderly, high risk parents. Plus it’s hugely disrespectful to ignore rules put in place to help us all. I have gone out of my way to help - turning out/feeding at weekends (which isn’t included usually), trying to work out what to turn out where to make things easier etc and I’m asking for a few things in return (like coming at different times). They’re not normal rules, they’re just in place while the country is under lockdown. Unfortunately times have temporarily changed and you can’t spend all day at your yard playing with your horse unless it’s at your home.
 

indie1282

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The worlds leading virologists don't know precisely how this virus is being transmitted but if you have privileged info you should probably share it with them

Well...the fact that the whole world has been asked to self isolate and self distance so we are not be in contact with other people, that we are all asked to disinfect like crazy and the message from the government is that the virus doesn't spread on it's own it's people that spread it tells me that they have a fair inclination of how this virus spreads..

I think most people understand that....oh, apart from you clearly...
 

Frumpoon

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are you for real? people are dying from this and NHS staff are put at risk each time they go to work. Perhaps you are one of the people not taking suitable precautions and are therefore at risk of spreading it. Or perhaps getting it yourself!

Perhaps we should just all carry on as normal and idc the scientists will work it all out and come up with a consensus then we could consider isolation if that is what they advise.

As for livery yard owners, their yard, their health and their rules which is very sad for some of their owners in a lockdown.


Or maybe I'm one of the people working for the NHS
 

AmyMay

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The worlds leading virologists don't know precisely how this virus is being transmitted but if you have privileged info you should probably share it with them

That is the attitude that could see 8 million people world wide die.

And, yes, virologists seem to have a pretty good handle on how the virus is spread.
 

honetpot

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Can you explain what you mean by a covid hotbed?
I think you not get it. So everyone decides they don't care if they are at higher risk and its spreads amoung them. As you do not know if you have the virus but can infect other people, you then go on to infect who do not mind the higher risk or do, and so it continues.
Now you may be happy to take the risk, you may think I am young, I am healthy, so I won't get it that bad, but what about the ones that do, and time and resources it will take to treat them. So its not about you and the risk you are happy to take,its the people you infect that infect someone else.
If you work in the NHS, I would love to know where because I will screen shot your posts and forward them to the relevant Trust and see what they think of your remarks. I suggest you educate yourself.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-21/coronavirus-why-social-distancing-works/
 

flying_high

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Yes, thank you. I thought as much. My boy is on full livery and the YM is taking good care of him, but she has put in place slots to give us all a bit of pony time. With regards to going out, yes, I'm walking doggy once a day from home and we are very lucky to have some open access heathland and woods very close by so I can walk there, let the dog have a good run and never see a soul. I appreciate that not everyone is so fortunate. I do know folks, though, who are going out for their daily exercise and are also going to their horses, classing the horse visit as "essential" even though it's on full livery. I guess making a set of "one size fits all" rules under these circumstances is just about impossible and everyone is just looking for a way to make the restrictions work, whilst staying within them. The YM is simply trying to do her best, but needs to accommodate the needs of the part liveries who do their own mucking out. This means the full liveries are effectively blocked from seeing their horses, which seems a bit as if we are being penalised somehow. <<sigh>> ... not whinging, just trying to do my best like everyone.

Our local police are also using similar notices to these.

Maybe the answer is for the yard to lift to "no dogs" embargo whilst the crisis continues. Then we could do a dog walk and pony visit all in one.

I'm not sure what anyone else is doing is relevant.

Morally we all should follow the spirit of the Government guidelines.

If you yard owner provides all basic essential care to your horse, you should not going to the yard at the moment.

You should not be driving (other than for reasons on the list which visiting yard when a full livery, exercising yourself or dogs isn't one of them).

You should be exercising yourself and your dogs from home.
 

Firefly9410

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We have also been forced onto full livery and banned from access.

It is only a small yard and with two horses I can't afford it. People are losing jobs due to coronavirus, can the full livery portion be challenged?? I don't have the option to move mine home, what will happen if I refuse to pay the extra?
You do not have a contract with your yard owner for full livery. They would have to take you to court to make you pay I think. With no contract I think they would not have a leg to stand on because it is them who decided to go to full livery. Not an easy position to be in it is no wonder you are upset about it.
We are on 1 hour only visit per horse per day all at different times. Its a real struggle as I'm trying to still rehab my horse and ultrasound takes 10 mins of my valuable time, icing isn't so bad as I just leave the ice vibe boot on, and then I have to walk her after ultrasound, only down the yard and back but its still time, something about aligning tendon fibres. I have her on assisted DIy and they are still doing my stable for me, so I am very lucky for that - it is skip out, so when I get there I am doing a full muck out down to the floor as I always have, plus icing leg, bandaging, changing rugs, preparing and feeding, water, picking out feet and applying iodeine solution.

I am grateful we are still allowed up as I want to get my horse as well as I can with her injury whilst I have the chance so that I am actually able to ride her again. And also trying to get her paddock as big as I feasibly can as she is strip grazed every day. I need to do that as quick as I can without her getting colic from the additional grazing space.

I'm grateful to the YO for letting us still go up, but when I've been at work all day, I practically have to drive like a mad woman to get to the yard to make my hour slot as even though there is hardly any traffic all I seem to be stuck behind is buses going at 20mph or tractors and other vechicles mooching along the lanes. When I get there I get changed and zoom in and do all my jobs, I feel I don't even have time for a cuddle anymore and its affecting my mental health big time, I keep bursting into tears, it has really upset me as I feel so frazzled, my stomach is in turmoil, I get home and have an upset stomach with the stress of it all and just cry and cry. I'm not sure where the 'hour' regulation has come from, an hour and a half would be more reasonable for everyone. Feel sorry for those that are buddying up and doing two although they get an extra hour. We have a really good staff team of about four plus YO and they are not allowed to ride even though they are there all day.

But I would do anything to keep seeing my horse so I will keep perservering as long as my mental health will let me and as long as we are allowed.
In your situation I would start a deep litter bed so all you have to do in the evenings is a quick skip out and add fresh bedding freeing up more time for the other things you need to do there. You sound really stressed out so I think you should do this for your health even if it is not the best for the horse.

I am lucky my yard has no new measures and I have a stable away from others just by chance so I am isolated even if other people are there. Does anybody know if we as a country go to total lockdown will the vets PTS if the horse owner requests it for the ones who will almost certainly not survive without daily care for example horses with long term medical problems kept on yards without full livery options or would people be expected to turn out hope for the best and whatever happens happens? It is a horrible thought I know. I worry for the horses who might end up in this situation.
 

ecb89

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It’s very hard for people who can’t see their horses .
but Yoers have the right to do this and it’s the best thing to do in my view .

It is really hard, and it’s not good for my mental health, even though I know it’s right.

Its even harder when I see the elderly out and about. I am being separated from my horse to help protect those who are vulnerable and some of those don’t seem to give a damn
 

SpringArising

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It is really hard, and it’s not good for my mental health, even though I know it’s right.

Its even harder when I see the elderly out and about. I am being separated from my horse to help protect those who are vulnerable and some of those don’t seem to give a damn

I would imagine that not every single old person has someone to care for them during this, or fully understands or knows what's happening, or how to get the help they need.
 

Winters100

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Why?

How does any of the above affect you in the slightest?

I agree it puts the people concerned at a higher risk and probably isn't in the spirit of the government guidelines but if they stay 2m apart then so what?

How adults conduct themselves when they are renting a space from you/buying a service is really beyond the limits of what you can reasonably influence


Do you seriously not understand this at all? I am shocked.

What we all do now affects society as a whole - ALL of us. If people do not act responsibly then this goes on longer. Do you not understand this? And what makes you think that keeping 2m apart is safe? It is NOT. It is just a guide that is there to try to make necessary interactions safer. If people had common sense then harsh restrictions would not be necessary - but if the majority think like you then there is no hope. I suggest that you go home and read something about what is going on in the world.
 

Winters100

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The worlds leading virologists don't know precisely how this virus is being transmitted but if you have privileged info you should probably share it with them

And they have a pretty good idea that it is NOT spread by people staying home and staying away from others. So unless you have a better idea for control than the WHO and just about every leading scientist perhaps you would like to not put others at risk by your foolish ideas and just stay home.
 

Winters100

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It is really hard, and it’s not good for my mental health, even though I know it’s right.

Its even harder when I see the elderly out and about. I am being separated from my horse to help protect those who are vulnerable and some of those don’t seem to give a damn

I think that we can safely say that being apart from our horses is small beer compared to what many will suffer in the coming months.
 

Winters100

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Yes, thank you. I thought as much. My boy is on full livery and the YM is taking good care of him, but she has put in place slots to give us all a bit of pony time. With regards to going out, yes, I'm walking doggy once a day from home and we are very lucky to have some open access heathland and woods very close by so I can walk there, let the dog have a good run and never see a soul. I appreciate that not everyone is so fortunate. I do know folks, though, who are going out for their daily exercise and are also going to their horses, classing the horse visit as "essential" even though it's on full livery. I guess making a set of "one size fits all" rules under these circumstances is just about impossible and everyone is just looking for a way to make the restrictions work, whilst staying within them. The YM is simply trying to do her best, but needs to accommodate the needs of the part liveries who do their own mucking out. This means the full liveries are effectively blocked from seeing their horses, which seems a bit as if we are being penalised somehow. <<sigh>> ... not whinging, just trying to do my best like everyone.

Our local police are also using similar notices to these.

Maybe the answer is for the yard to lift to "no dogs" embargo whilst the crisis continues. Then we could do a dog walk and pony visit all in one.

Appreciate that you are finding it difficult, but the answer is actually not for the YO to let you drive your dogs to the yard to see your horses, but for you to accept that your horses have the necessary daily care and to stay home and exercise your dogs from there. Sorry, but we all have to compromise right now and it sounds as if you are not worried about the welfare of your horses. I truly understand how difficult it is, but if the majority do not stay home then harsher regulations will be introduced. Better to now allow those who have true welfare issues to have the yards to themselves.
 

sarahann1

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Wow, thanks for all the responses folks, I’ve not been able to face even coming back to this thread until now, me head is a mess.

In a way it’s nice to know others are in the same boat, I envy those of you who don’t seem to rely on your horses to keep you mentally sound as much as I do.

I raised the question at our yard what will happen when this inevitably goes beyond 3 weeks. I don’t think they’d thought that far ahead yet. I have a tiny glimmer of hope they’ll at least let us into the fields, all of which are accessible without going anywhere near the main building. If that’s not going to be the case, I’m going to have to seriously think about trying to move her.
 

Micropony

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It is incredibly difficult I am not banned from the yard but I have to travel on public transport which is still running but with being asked to only do essential journey's on public transport I don't think I can really justify going to the yard.

Three weeks will be struggle not to see my pony but there is now some mention of the lockdown being for 6 months which would be incredibly difficult for those of us who could not see our horses until the lockdown is lifted. I live on my own so not only will I not be able to see my horse until the lockdown is lifted I won't be able to interact socially with anyone until it lifted I will only be able to talk on the phone. 6 months without any proper interaction with a living being either animal or human is going to be mentally very challenging.

I also live alone, so can empathise. I am not frontline but working from home on coronavirus stuff in a support capacity, so am basically working most of my waking hours during the week and I just want to see my horse and give him a groom and a cuddle. Riding would be wonderful, but I do think that is irresponsible unless the horse really is utterly bomb proof, which mine isn't.
I thought I didn't like people very much, but am missing the company of other humans more than I expected to. Video calls help, but it's not the same.
Horse is looked after beautifully at his yard, I have no concerns whatsoever about his welfare, I am just being selfish wanting to see him for my own reasons.
I think this will go on for a while, so am trying to get a grip and be sensible. It can't last forever, right?
 

SO1

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If deaths increase or someone at your yard or their family get seriously ill then you may better understand why some people who are risk adverse may have made the decision to lockdown the yard or severely restrict access.

My understanding is this virus can also live on fur so if you have virus on your clothes or face or hands and this gets transmitted to your horses' fur and someone else touches your horse the virus could get transmitted or maybe even if you horse touches another horse and the virus gets on to that horse' fur and the owner touches it.

Hand washing is vital. I have made the very difficult decision not to go to the yard following BEF advice not to ride and also being on part livery pony's basic care is being taken care of and he is on box rest with controlled walking which will be done now fully on the horse walker. This is not great for my mental health but there are times where one has to accept that we have to think of others not just ourselves. I may revise my decision depending on how long the lockdown goes on for example if the restrictions in place are said to go on beyond the 3 weeks - hopefully if we are all as compliant as possible with social distance and hygiene then the longer we are on lockdown the less virus out there and the less risk, the early stage of the lockdown is more risky especially if many people are not being careful enough. If I do need to go to the yard I will take a clean set of clothes to put on there and wash my face and hands before and after touching my pony.

YO and their staff will have to trust that those that come on their premise and those that their liveries are living with are complying with social distancing and hygiene when off the yard. Horse owners have a habit of attending to their horses even when they are really sick, mild symptoms of C19 may not put them off coming to the yard, can a YO trust that person is feeling ok, that anyone who lives in that person's house is not sick etc. This virus is killing people, I can totally understand why YO may want to restrict or stop access especially if they or their family are high risk. YO who employ staff will also have a duty of care towards those staff. These are not normal circumstances people will be worried about both their health and their business.
 

SO1

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I am also working from home and most of my work is focused on coronavirus but not NHS. I agree I think this could go on for a a while, the schools are closed until at least September, I expect the lockdowns will gradually be extended as if they tell people that they might need to be locked down for 6 months there is a risk of panic and despair and also people more likely to break the rules, if you say three weeks people have some hope that it might stop after three weeks and people more likely to comply as they think they can cope with three weeks. In some respects from a behaviour aspect it would be easier to get people to comply with it if was winter as the outdoors become less appealing.

My concern if that they make the rules stricter and stop allowing exercise outdoors as for many people exercise really helps with mental health especially if you live in a small flat.


I also live alone, so can empathise. I am not frontline but working from home on coronavirus stuff in a support capacity, so am basically working most of my waking hours during the week and I just want to see my horse and give him a groom and a cuddle. Riding would be wonderful, but I do think that is irresponsible unless the horse really is utterly bomb proof, which mine isn't.
I thought I didn't like people very much, but am missing the company of other humans more than I expected to. Video calls help, but it's not the same.
Horse is looked after beautifully at his yard, I have no concerns whatsoever about his welfare, I am just being selfish wanting to see him for my own reasons.
I think this will go on for a while, so am trying to get a grip and be sensible. It can't last forever, right?
 

sakura

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my mare is on full livery, I am therefore not her primary care giver and will not be seeing her until restrictions are lifted. of course this is a hard adjustment to make very quickly, and my mental health will likely suffer, but it'll protect others. and it won't be forever. my yard have been absolutely fantastic, I feel very lucky in that respect, but I miss her like crazy!
 
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