Livery yards being closed, banned from seeing our horses

[Gingerwitch]

that could well be true however I doubt well run yards will have any problems in taking on new liveries.

I doubt well run yards would be in this situation because well run yards behave like a business and have business sense.

 

[paddy555]

I doubt well run yards would be in this situation because well run yards behave like a business and have business sense.

if I was looking at a yard ATM I would be looking at one with Corona virus sense. That would tell me a lot about the YO's attitude and attention to detail.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

if I was looking at a yard ATM I would be looking at one with Corona virus sense. That would tell me a lot about the YO's attitude and attention to detail.

You say that because you don’t have to. Would you really move to a yard that banned you from seeing your horses and charged you extra for the privilege? I know I wouldn’t.

Our yard of all DIY hasn’t had any rules applied by the YO but we’re all sensible. I keep myself safe by keeping a safe distance away from others and disinfecting everything I touch that could be contaminated and washing hands regularly.

 

[Frumpoon]

You say that because you don’t have to. Would you really move to a yard that banned you from seeing your horses and charged you extra for the privilege? I know I wouldn’t.

Our yard of all DIY hasn’t had any rules applied by the YO but we’re all sensible. I keep myself safe by keeping a safe distance away from others and disinfecting everything I touch that could be contaminated and washing hands regularly.

This is a good and very measured point. You are a very experienced horseman Paddy and believe it or not I do like reading your posts and your view on competition and vetinerinary matters is always very good. I'm sure you have a number of horses of your own and with full Livery being £4-500 a month per horse, would you really spend upwards of £1500 a month to not see your horse or verify its care?

Don't forget that Livery is a completely unregulated industry compared to children's nurseries or doggy day care or other parallels

 

[Upthecreek]

There are many factors which Yard Owners need to consider when making decisions on access for liveries at the moment. Let’s not forget this is an unprecedented situation which nobody is prepared for or knows how to deal with. Large yards that employ staff have a duty of care to provide a safe working environment for those staff. On smaller yards with no staff the YO has the right to make decisions on access based on their individual circumstances. If the liveries don’t like it they of course have the right to find alternative accommodation for their horses. It’s very easy for people on here to criticise and think they know better and it’s probably those people that would put everyone at risk by not taking adequate precautions so best they stay away.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

There are many factors which Yard Owners need to consider when making decisions on access for liveries at the moment. Let’s not forget this is an unprecedented situation which nobody is prepared for or knows how to deal with. Large yards that employ staff have a duty of care to provide a safe working environment for those staff. On smaller yards with no staff the YO has the right to make decisions on access based on their individual circumstances. If the liveries don’t like it they of course have the right to find alternative accommodation for their horses. It’s very easy for people on here to criticise and think they know better and it’s probably those people that would put everyone at risk by not taking adequate precautions so best they stay away.

I can’t think of any yard that I’ve been on or visited that couldn’t put in provision to protect themselves and their staff whilst still allowing controlled access. Many yards are doing just this. People are still working in supermarkets where the footfall is much higher and many many potentially contaminated surfaces as well as many staff and processes to control and yet they manage.

 

[Winters100]

People are still working in supermarkets where the footfall is much higher and many many potentially contaminated surfaces as well as many staff and processes to control and yet they manage.

This is absolutely true that people are (thankfully) still working in supermarkets, gas stations and other essential businesses. However the key here is that we are being asked to avoid non essential contact. So visiting a food shop is essential contact, caring for your DIY horse is also essential, but visiting your horse who has adequate care simply because you would like to see them is non-essential. However we try to read the regulations the purpose is clearly to keep everyone home as much as possible. Surely, given the number of deaths and the sacrifices being made, this is not too much to ask?

 

[Upthecreek]

I can’t think of any yard that I’ve been on or visited that couldn’t put in provision to protect themselves and their staff whilst still allowing controlled access. Many yards are doing just this. People are still working in supermarkets where the footfall is much higher and many many potentially contaminated surfaces as well as many staff and processes to control and yet they manage.

Yes people are still working in supermarkets but food is essential for survival. I completely agree that many yards could put provision in place to allow controlled access and many around here have done so since lockdown was extended and the initial panic about what to do for the best has subsided. If liveries are unhappy with current arrangements at their yard they should come up with a sensible proposal which they all agree to and nominate someone to put it to the Yard Owner. If YO is unapproachable or not willing to consider this without good reason then it's surely it's an easy decision to move yards.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

This is absolutely true that people are (thankfully) still working in supermarkets, gas stations and other essential businesses. However the key here is that we are being asked to avoid non essential contact. So visiting a food shop is essential contact, caring for your DIY horse is also essential, but visiting your horse who has adequate care simply because you would like to see them is non-essential. However we try to read the regulations the purpose is clearly to keep everyone home as much as possible. Surely, given the number of deaths and the sacrifices being made, this is not too much to ask?

Yes it is too much to ask as far as I’m concerned but luckily I’m not affected just supporting others. How do you know your horse has adequate care if you cannot check on it? There are many people in the horse industry I wouldn’t trust one iota with my horses care unless I was keeping a close eye.

I’ll never agree with you in this.

 

[The Jokers Girl]

Although I haven't been banned from my yard, we just have some restrictions in place but still get to see our horses and ride every day, if we chose, the yard next door to me has closed. It closed the week before official lockdown and of the 25 liveries that were there only 8 are left. 17 have left in 5 weeks. I feel dreadful for anyone kept apart from their horse and those that are currently trapped in yards that are banning visits I hope you all vote with your feet when you are able. I think some yard owners don't deserve the luxury of having a livery yard, as they just don't have the people skills or compassion to run them well.

 

[AlDestoor]

that could well be true however I doubt well run yards will have any problems in taking on new liveries.

It's actually I'm told the opposite. I'm told that professional yards are all shut down (they arent, just what I've been told by the few I've spoken to)

I do think my last sentence about having more guidance for yard owners still stands. I dont think I'm wrong in saying that, but being someone who was disinfecting said yard you've read about, with my own disinfectant because non had been made available. Spraying yard bolts because they're shared with the yard managers- I dont think I've done anything to warrant their actions on my other post. Feel free to pm though and I'll happily share with you the screen shots of my conversations with them. I think the current guidelines leave a lot to be desired and are open to alot of interpretation which are leading alot of people into stress (yard owners included) about doing the right thing. That is in no way about my yard owner, that is in general and I'm sure alot of liveries would support what I am saying.

Fyi- I've not once said yards shouldn't be restricted. I've reiterated that the approach should be realistic as these are not their horses but I understand it's their home.

 

[SO1]

The situation is different now than it was 3 weeks ago. People are now realising that the problem will not go in a few months. Highly vulnerable people may have to self isolate until there is a vaccine. I can totally understand if a YO falls into that category & wants to protect themselves & have access to their own horses the safest thing for them is to not let customers access the yard until there is a vaccine regardless of if there is a lockdown or not. However they need to consider how they would manage financially if all their liveries left over the next 18 months & they couldn't get another job due to having to self isolate.

If they want to keep the business going then they need to think about what their customers will accept over the next 18 months most people would accept no access for 3-6 weeks but if becomes 3-6 months or more then lots of people would struggle with that. Would for example customers accept a weekly slot to visit their horse at a time when the YO or vulnerable staff were not on the yard for example evenings. I appreciate that big yards with 30+ owners is going to be difficult to timetable if you only want one livery on the yard at a time whereas smaller yards would be easier.

I think the question to ask is if access has primarily been stopped due to the lockdown guidance or if it is to protect themselves. If it is the later then it would useful to what would need to change in order for you to have access to the yard. If it is a vaccine then it could be years before you get access again & you might want to consider moving your horse.

With DIY yards with owners who do wish for liveries to access the yard in order to protect themselves then they will probably end up shutting as their customers won't accept full livery costs for that long.

 

[Winters100]

The situation is different now than it was 3 weeks ago. People are now realising that the problem will not go in a few months.

I'm pretty sure that not many people thought it would be gone in a few months, and I think we can assume that for the UK it will be a long haul given the late implementation of the restrictions. I also see a lot in the UK press about restrictions being relaxed in other countries, but it is worth remembering that many of these reductions still leave more stringent restrictions than the UK. For example here the concessions are that national forests and parks are now opened, in shops of less than 100 sq m 4 people are allowed inside rather than 3, larger shops 1 person per 15 sq m, children over 13 are now allowed in the streets without a parent, but borders are closed, quarantine is monitored by the military, you have to wear a mask outside your own property and unnecessary travel is still prohibited. The UK should not rely on reports that other countries are relaxing restrictions as evidence that it will be over soon, especially given that the modest relaxing of restrictions here comes with a death rate of 10 per million of population compared with 243 in the UK.

 

[Gingerwitch]

It's actually I'm told the opposite. I'm told that professional yards are all shut down (they arent, just what I've been told by the few I've spoken to)

I do think my last sentence about having more guidance for yard owners still stands. I dont think I'm wrong in saying that, but being someone who was disinfecting said yard you've read about, with my own disinfectant because non had been made available. Spraying yard bolts because they're shared with the yard managers- I dont think I've done anything to warrant their actions on my other post. Feel free to pm though and I'll happily share with you the screen shots of my conversations with them. I think the current guidelines leave a lot to be desired and are open to alot of interpretation which are leading alot of people into stress (yard owners included) about doing the right thing. That is in no way about my yard owner, that is in general and I'm sure alot of liveries would support what I am saying.

Fyi- I've not once said yards shouldn't be restricted. I've reiterated that the approach should be realistic as these are not their horses but I understand it's their home.

Dont send paddy PM's as she will post them on the forum

 

[maya2008]

A friend and I had a conversation yesterday - the pressure on the NHS will go on for many months. So many people will turn horses away and not ride. Others won't be allowed to even if they wanted to. Then when things calm down, we will have owners and riders who have lost their riding muscles, on unfit horses, some of whom will be hot blooded competition horses who are sparky at the best of times; have probably changed shape so their saddles don't fit etc. She reckoned that will increase the number of horse related accidents! I hope not, but can see her point.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Yes people are still working in supermarkets but food is essential for survival. I completely agree that many yards could put provision in place to allow controlled access and many around here have done so since lockdown was extended and the initial panic about what to do for the best has subsided. If liveries are unhappy with current arrangements at their yard they should come up with a sensible proposal which they all agree to and nominate someone to put it to the Yard Owner. If YO is unapproachable or not willing to consider this without good reason then it's surely it's an easy decision to move yards.

I'm pretty sure that not many people thought it would be gone in a few months, and I think we can assume that for the UK it will be a long haul given the late implementation of the restrictions. I also see a lot in the UK press about restrictions being relaxed in other countries, but it is worth remembering that many of these reductions still leave more stringent restrictions than the UK. For example here the concessions are that national forests and parks are now opened, in shops of less than 100 sq m 4 people are allowed inside rather than 3, larger shops 1 person per 15 sq m, children over 13 are now allowed in the streets without a parent, but borders are closed, quarantine is monitored by the military, you have to wear a mask outside your own property and unnecessary travel is still prohibited. The UK should not rely on reports that other countries are relaxing restrictions as evidence that it will be over soon, especially given that the modest relaxing of restrictions here comes with a death rate of 10 per million of population compared with 243 in the UK.

Meanwhile the virus is still circulating in the population and around the world. As soon as you lift any restrictions more people will get it. There is no cure although understanding of treatment is improving and importantly there is no vaccine nor is there likely to be. As far as I’m aware no one has ever developed an effective vaccine for a Coronavirus so this may not ever happen and if it does it’s unlikely to be 100 per cent effective. It’s just a managing numbers game at the moment and that’s not likely to change for a very long time. You’ll have to completely isolate a population from the rest of the world forever to get rid of it and keep it out. That’s just not feasible in the medium to long term. At some point restrictions will have to lift even if we operate differently in society.

 

[AlDestoor]

Dont send paddy PM's as she will post them on the forum

Thanks for the heads up- She's also clearly searched my other posts which is a little strange!

 

[ester]

That's not really strange at all, sometimes it helps if you have miss a thread which had extra info it in

 

[tristar]

Although I haven't been banned from my yard, we just have some restrictions in place but still get to see our horses and ride every day, if we chose, the yard next door to me has closed. It closed the week before official lockdown and of the 25 liveries that were there only 8 are left. 17 have left in 5 weeks. I feel dreadful for anyone kept apart from their horse and those that are currently trapped in yards that are banning visits I hope you all vote with your feet when you are able. I think some yard owners don't deserve the luxury of having a livery yard, as they just don't have the people skills or compassion to run them well.

that last sentence is so true

 

[Gingerwitch]

I find it amazing that the people bleating about how selfish people are at wanting to see there animals and supporting yards for doing this are the very ones that still have access to their horses.

that last sentence is so true

I totally agree

 

[stormox]

Some people are sadly kept away from their families, and other relatives. If keeping away from your horse for a short while slows the spread of the pandemic - so be it. Try and look at the bigger picture.
It isn't only about keeping social distancing at the yard. It is extra fuel and unnecessary journeys meaning more filling up at garages.... more traffic on the roads meaning more chance of accidents putting pressure on NHS.
The more you are out and about the more difficult it is to trace and test your contacts ...again putting pressure on the front line workers.
If people dont comply this will only go on for longer..

 

[AlDestoor]

I completely get why people would not want to be away though.

For myself, my horse has had 2 surgeries and been in strict rehab ever since. I wouldn't trust anybody else to follow the program I put in place and neither should I have to pay for it. All of which, if not done correctly, could have an impact on my horse ever being ridden again. To me, I deem this as essential care and something which I wouldn't want anybody else to do bare me- but I may just be a control freak!

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Some people are sadly kept away from their families, and other relatives. If keeping away from your horse for a short while slows the spread of the pandemic - so be it. Try and look at the bigger picture.
It isn't only about keeping social distancing at the yard. It is extra fuel and unnecessary journeys meaning more filling up at garages.... more traffic on the roads meaning more chance of accidents putting pressure on NHS.
The more you are out and about the more difficult it is to trace and test your contacts ...again putting pressure on the front line workers.
If people dont comply this will only go on for longer..

Well there’s plenty of fuel and at rock bottom prices. There’s much less traffic on the road anyway although there is a rise in reckless driving from some of my personal observations. There are lots of non essential businesses still operating eg gardeners, some building. My local NHS is running at 60% capacity according to local news so not overrun. So far numbers of cases/deaths per day seems to be stabilising.

The biggest risk is still from mixing with unknown people at work or when shopping so the biggest lowering of risk of transmission would be to introduce more measures there. It may be essential but it’s still the risk that could be significantly managed down. How about NHS staff and other care staff actually having adequate PPE?

Focusing on the wrong risks is easy and detracts from the real ones. The fact is going to see your horse won’t affect how long we are in lockdown.

 

[tristar]

but people for the most part can help themselves, animals can`t and involve intensive management, i have every sympathy with all horses owners who stressing about the welfare of their animals at this time, and trying to cope with a bad situation themselves at this time, i don`t think they are selfish, they have rights, and i admire their honest concern about what is happening to their animals at this time.

after what i`ve seen done to animals, i back to the hilt 100 per cent caring owners

and anyway the bottom line is the concerned owner is probably the one who will take the best precautions, to ensure continued access will not be put at risk, by observing social distancing etc

 

[merlinsquest]

My friend runs a yard with 50 liveries, they are on lockdown & not able to come onto the yard at all, staff only. With this many people social distancing or a rota would be almost impossible & all touching gates & things, however I think if I were a livery there the staff posting pictures of themselves riding their own horses, sitting in the tea room together etc would start to grate after a while. I appreciate that it’s a balancing act & my friend the YM is being responsible, but IMO it’s not sustainable, people won’t continue to pay for horses that they can’t see indefinitely. In her shoes, I have no idea what the answer is, it’s a difficult one

 

[Gingerwitch]

My friend runs a yard with 50 liveries, they are on lockdown & not able to come onto the yard at all, staff only. With this many people social distancing or a rota would be almost impossible & all touching gates & things, however I think if I were a livery there the staff posting pictures of themselves riding their own horses, sitting in the tea room together etc would start to grate after a while. I appreciate that it’s a balancing act & my friend the YM is being responsible, but IMO it’s not sustainable, people won’t continue to pay for horses that they can’t see indefinitely. In her shoes, I have no idea what the answer is, it’s a difficult one

MQ, sorry if she even only allowed one owner on once an hour, made them wear gloves, washed hands when they got out the car and only let them touch their own horse she would have from 7am until 7 pm that is 12 hours, in 4 days every owner pretty much could see their horse,, how difficult is that to organise ?

 

[The Jokers Girl]

I find it amazing that the people bleating about how selfish people are at wanting to see there animals and supporting yards for doing this are the very ones that still have access to their horses.


I totally agree

Apologies if your comment wasn't aimed at me GW (as I do still have access to my horse) but I don't support yards that have closed at all. I am appalled at yards that have banned liveries, whilst still collecting, in some cases upwards of £500 a month in livery. I also know of a yard that has banned farriers!!!
I still have access to my horse and I in no way support yards who are stopping owners attending. I hope the liveries that are on these yards at the moment leave at the 1st opportunity and these awful yard owners finally understand how their liveries feel when they have no visible business left.

 

[paddy555]

Thanks for the heads up- She's also clearly searched my other posts which is a little strange!

I haven't searched your other posts only the thread about given notice to leave which is/was live. I am afraid I simply don't have the time or the interest to search your or other people's posts.

 

[paddy555]

I think some yard owners don't deserve the luxury of having a livery yard,

I know now why I would never have liveries. This says it all. The attitude of the average horse owner in a livery yard.

Those yard owners could of course be struggling in this lockdown, and we are still in a lockdown and the formal lockdown may well be extended.. They still have to pay their expenses, loans, rates, bills etc. They could well be paying forage bills and having to accommodate owners who, through no fault of their own, cannot afford their livery fees. They are still having to pay contractors to move the muck heap, harrow the fields, repair fencing and then they have to pay for it. They may be having to do a lot more work themselves if their yards are locked down. They could well be juggling the viability of their business, the viability of their overdraft, whether it is safe to let people near due to their vulnerable families or even their own underlying health issue.
I guess many are wondering as to how they can continue their business in the months to come, if in fact they should continue. All this alongside their key worker friends or family having to go into the HNS or supermarket to work.

Then they are faced with liveries who think it is too much to ask they can't see their horse in this exceptional period.

You say you are appalled at yards that have banned liveries yet still collecting their livery fees. Try and remember the livery fees pay for the yard's expenses. Those expenses haven't gone away.

I am at a loss to understand why any of the owners on here who are unhappy with their livery yard are moaning about it. The answer is very simple. Go to yard even if locked down, put headcollar on horse, clip rope on and walk through the gates. You can do it this afternoon. No need for any of you to be unhappy.

If you don't want to do that try and have some tolerance for the YO. I doubt they asked to be put in this position.

 

[Abi90]

My YO is absolutely wonderful and has everything spot on as far as I’m concerned. I feel for those who are banned from their horses.

I think when it was initially 3 weeks, and it was never going to be just 3 weeks, it’s not so bad but as social distancing is likely to last potentially 12 months or longer there needs to be a plan moving forward, I could now be on DIY quite easily but I love my yard and set up but if I was banned from my horse I would probably be looking to move her to the DIY yard 200 metres from my office!

I get that for some people their yard is also their home but I assume they don’t let liveries into their actual garden or house?