Livery yards, do you expect your own field ?

[TeamWazz]

At the yard I'm at currently all the fields are split into two or three at a push per field though each field is side by side with another two horses. Individual turnout is offered as well but we have no herd fields. I like that set up as both of mine would be bottom of the pecking order with any other bossy horse and I've had the unpleasant experience of trying to get the most bullied horse of the field past fourteen others waiting for their food at the gate!

I wouldn't mind a geldings only herd, perhaps max of eight, if I had to but that is only if it was the only choice and the yard was otherwise perfect. I've heard too many horror stories of injuries and don't fancy my chances in a crush of impatient, hungry horses at the gate, to want to risk otherwise!

 

[MissTyc]

I know a lot of geldings only yards or mares only yards and ir works well.
I run a mixed herd of 20 (yes, 20!) at my yard and mostly things are peaceful. The important thing is the right type of horses or ponies!
Obviously I can't see your setup, but could the hill grazing be 24/7 summer grazing? Plenty of yards have faraway fields for summer grazing ... your 8 acres could then be a winter trash paddock with overnight stabling. That way you could probably fit your 8 horses in ... Maybe aim for ponies!!

 

[meesha]

Thanks again for all the responses !!! I am going to talk to the owner to get access to walk all the land properly before making a decision. Good thinking about hill as summer grazing especially as it is tree lined so would be very sheltered round edges as well as breezy in middle so hopefully not too many flies (cant stand seeing horses being roasted alive in fields with no shelter - worse than them being out in rain). The 8 acres can easily be split into 3 all leading out onto the bottom of field for bringing in without going through other horses - it would also mean a smaller section at the far end could be used as starvation but I agree it is up to horse owners to decide if this is required. The only thing I will stipulate is that if they have headcollars left on they must be fieldsafe !

In terms of gates it is great as one gate from field to schooling paddock, another into yard and then another out of yard so even if someone doesnt latch one correctly worst case is loose horses in schooling paddock !

I am down road and have ride on mower, harrow etc so field maintenance not too much of an issue. poo picking will probably be the problem, but again they would be responsible for diong their own - if it gets bad I will have to have nice but firm words !

All other suggestions welcome - I am considering running away screaming rather than taking it on - do you think psychometric testing for all prospective clients and stealth surveillance of them first would be going too far ! haha

 

[the watcher]

I can only give you my perspective, and of course every client has different needs. I do expect to have my own paddocks, I expect these to be determined before I move my horses there and I do not expect the arrangement to be changed. If I chose to put two of my horses together for company, or keep them apart, that is my choice.

I have been on a number of livery yards over the years, have had stables promised to me that I didn't get, have had to move my horses out of stables into smaller ones to make room for new clients, have had to rotate on to different paddocks that have been left messy and not poo picked (I am scrupulous about picking mine) and yes have had to fish my horses and those belonging to other liveries out of mobs of horses turned out together.

On the other hand I have been on some brilliant yards, which I have only left because I moved house, which I couldn't recommend too highly. The yard I am at now is great, I have my own block of stables, my own field to divide up as I like (so I can accomodate the grass needs of each of my horses) - it may not suit everybody though!

 

[AmyMay]

I also think 8 acres for livery is too small. However, if you planned on using the additional 12 for spring and summer grazing - then you'd be ok. But again, a very limited number of horses. And remember whilst you may be considering offering individual turnout - you won't have that option on the hill.

 

[CBFan]

No, I don't expect my own field. I would hope that the y/o would accomodate my horse's needs to a certain degree - i.e. have the option of a small(ish) restricted turnout area for lami prones or fatties, with the rest divided into fields for small ish herds. I'd say with 8 acres you could get away with 7 horses - 8 at a push but you wouldn't have much grass all year round - which IMO is a good thing as horses don't need a lot! I'd be inclined to divide your 8 acres in two. I'd also be inclined to use this only for winter turnout, given that it is closer to your yard and then use your 12 acre hill as summer turnout - it's a bit further to walk but at least your liveries can do it in the sunshine and perhaps there is the option of them driving up with their tack and riding down? or making a tie up up the hill so that they can go up to groom and or feed without having to walk back down to the yard?

 

[meesha]

I am going to try and stick to 6 liveries. Good idea about the tie up on hill - I am sure I can put a couple up there and thank god there is no need to carry water up as automatic water there. With 6 I can utilise the 2 other stables having one as feed room and one as emergency stable for whatever (you never know!) there is storage at end of yard which is ideal for drying rugs and storing bedding/hay - there is also a seperate tack room.

Just the insurance quote to wait for, the field/hill to walk again, the owner to talk to again and the liveries to find ! oh... and the field to get cut and baled (will be advertising for cheap hay off field as dont fancy moving 8 acres worth on my own !) will keep some hay for liveries.

Someone just needs to do a sun dance now so we can all get our hay in !!!

 

[nona1]

I hate seeing horses stuck on their own in those piddly little paddocks. OK they can have a mouthful of grass and a walk round to stretch their legs and if they are lucky maybe have a scratch over the fence, but it's so unnatural for them.

The problems with herds only really come about when they are overcrowded so yes, I think that you are putting too many in there unless they also have access to the larger field.

My horse was always bottom of the pecking order and used to get the odd lump and bite on him, but I still prefer to keep him out in a herd. It was always in plenty of space though so he could make a getaway if needed. At one place it was 4 out on 5 acres and another nearly 30 but rotating round 3 fields of between 20 - 30 acres. It was wonderful seeing them all have fun hoolying round at times.

Your hill wouldn't bother me at all. It's good for the horses (balance and fitness, every tried riding something that's never been out of a flat paddock or school down a steep hill?) and most horses are pretty good for being caught. It won't appeal to someone with a reluctant catcher, but that's just them. In the big fields our horses all soon learned their call/signal and would come over for their owners (some people yelled, some people used whistles, one a handbell, and mine knew the clank of his metal feed trug before I'd even walked out of the store.)

Too many piddly little paddocks around with too many horses in them or poor little lonely ones.

 

[CBFan]

If you are going to stick to 6 I would perhaps divide your 8 acres in two fields of 4acres and then rotate the 6 as a whole herd between the two throughout the winter maybe a month in each or 3 months in one, 3 in the other - from say october -march... 4 acres is too small for 6 horses long term but as you are rotating, it will be fine

if you are going to cut for hay in future years, you will want them off it by march latest

I think the key to good management is to be sure of your rules - I recently moved to a beautiful yard which has pretty strict but fair rules (e.g.NO muddy feet on yard - area provided to pick out and wash down before they set foot on main yard - she runs another business out of the yard so needs it kept clean and tidy - fair enough )but the yard owner also trys to accomodate the horse's individual needs where possible - like my boy is lami prone so she has allowed me to use my own fencing to fence off a scraggy bit of field for him... she suggested it rather than saying 'but he's 17.2hh!! he can't be lami prone!!' or any such dumb remark!! work out what is important to you and stick to it... fields can get really trashed in winter but they do tend to recover in spring...

 

[acw295]

I only want herd turnout on livery - don't mind if single sex or mixed, as long as there is enough room for the number of horses. Loathe individual paddocks but useful to have a couple for injuries and new horses.

IME herds work well where there is enough space, injuries start where they are cramped and/or hungry.

 

[Kallibear]

Thanks again for all the responses !!! I am going to talk to the owner to get access to walk all the land properly before making a decision. Good thinking about hill as summer grazing especially as it is tree lined so would be very sheltered round edges as well as breezy in middle so hopefully not too many flies (cant stand seeing horses being roasted alive in fields with no shelter - worse than them being out in rain). The 8 acres can easily be split into 3 all leading out onto the bottom of field for bringing in without going through other horses - it would also mean a smaller section at the far end could be used as starvation but I agree it is up to horse owners to decide if this is required. The only thing I will stipulate is that if they have headcollars left on they must be fieldsafe !

In terms of gates it is great as one gate from field to schooling paddock, another into yard and then another out of yard so even if someone doesnt latch one correctly worst case is loose horses in schooling paddock !

I am down road and have ride on mower, harrow etc so field maintenance not too much of an issue. poo picking will probably be the problem, but again they would be responsible for diong their own - if it gets bad I will have to have nice but firm words !

All other suggestions welcome - I am considering running away screaming rather than taking it on - do you think psychometric testing for all prospective clients and stealth surveillance of them first would be going too far ! haha

various things to considers (having moved to my own land recently and having a livery!)

Fencing. Often poor at yards as it's hard to maintain cheaply. Get mains electric fencing and string a line along the top of all fences! BEFORE the horses move in! Have everything electric and maintain it!

You need to think about weight maintance. Either you do not accept good doers or you need to accomodate fatties (which is a large % of the horse population!). Over the summer think about a fatties paddock, a 'normal' paddock and rested paddock. Or maybe a 'track' round the outside? I'd do two fields (one fatty, one normal) and tell the extremes they will have feed/muzzle. And make that clear before they arrive!

Winter turn out: who calls the shots? No turn out? Out during the day? Half an half (half during day, half over night?) 24/7? Make sure you have a veto for horses going out if it's extremely wet!

You need to think about how you're going to control timing for turnout: if you've got 6 different owners then it could end up being chaos and you could end up with horses left by themselves for ages. I personally would include turn in and turn out in the price of livery for stabled horses, so all go out at 7am and come back in at 6pm (for example). If the owner wants something altered temporailty they need to do it themselves! Think about ease of turnout when setting up fences (be nice if you could just open the gate and let them go!)

Feeding hay. You're unlikely to get away with feeding nothing in the fields so you need to think about how you're going to feed it. With 6 owners it'll be a logistical nightmare. In piles, in nets or a feeder? Hardcore to save the ground? Who pays for what? I would make it my responsibility to ensure there's haylege bale in the field at all times (in a feeder: saves SOOO much waste) and add it to livery charges, otherwise there will be no end of quibbling over it. If you've got fatties and skinnies you could have two groups (a day group and a night group, or split field in two?) and give one adlib (a bale in a feeder) and one limitied (piles on ground maybe or haynets)

Poo-picking: the biggest cause of contention! 6 different owners will be nightmare to monitor and you will need to keep a close eye at all times. I personally would add an extra £5 a week and pay someone to come and clear it every two weeks. Whatever you choose, make it clear and easy (2 barrows a day/horse maybe) and stick to your guns.

Agreed with letting others call the shots. Make the rules and stick to them. Make them clear from the start, try and cover all eventualities and don't let owners make choices. The poor yards I'd seen are usually due to a lack of management or laziness from the YM. Although one was a completely unreasonable control freak (those in Edinburgh will know exactly who I mean )

If you want it to go smoothly, take all maintainance on yourself. Fencing. Water. Poo-picking. Hay avalibility. So the only things your liveries have to do is ride, feed and muck out and the only choices they get is which group/field their horse goes into.