Livery yards - what do you look for?

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One More

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Hi all,

I am considering the possibility of taking on a few liveries. I am lucky enough to be moving to a house with equestrian facilities (I am ridiculously excited!) have budgeted (and then doubled it! DOH) to have it all stripped and re-done properly. There is enough turn out/stable space/storage space for me to be able to take on 3 livery horses, possibly more if it all goes to plan. From what I've been told the area is lacking in good yards! Livery horses would preferably be part livery or full livery. No DIY.
So my questions are what facilities or options do people realistically want? I'm thinking what sort of yard opening hours - I'd be living there, so would really like people NOT to be turning up at 10pm or 5am? Facility wise, already there is all year turnout, 20x60 good surface school, nice boxes in american barn, hot wash/solarium and secure tack room budgeted for, as well as a few other bits and pieces. I've not been on livery for years, as renting a yard at the moment, so I have no idea what's in demand?

Help/opinions greatly appreciated!
 
Sounds lovely, where abouts are you?!!

When looking at a yard, I would look what the turnout was like, I.e in groups or individual. I would like my horse turned out with the company of 1 or 2 horses but not in a big herd. Think facility wise you've probably already got it covered, a walker would be nice but not essential :)
 
Please think long and hard about this! I tried it and hated it - I managed to keep going for 7 yrs but it wore me down in the end. I had similiar facilities but all the comings and goings made me feel like my home was no longer my own, and had to often compromise my own horses needs for that of clients.

In terms of your question I think you have most areas covered. Don't forget about yard and third party insurance, business rates, and speak to your house inusrance (some wont insure you as a private home if they see it as a business).

For opening hours, mine were not before 7am and not after 9pm.

Another thing to consider is legally written livery contracts to protect you and your clients, with yard rules clearly laid out and set in stone.

Good luck!
 
I hadn't thought about that ^
My lot are currently all individual or 2's, I can't take the risk of having one in to sell and it starting a fight in the field. Would be happy with well matched 2's and 3's though!

Walker is something I would have to look into further - but would definitely consider!
 
How nice for you. I do hope for you to succeed you have a surmountable amount of knowledge in keeping horses seeing as you are only offering full and part livery not DIY, seeing as people are going to have to entrust their horses welfare in your hands. Sadly once again the diyers get the fingers forked up at them, when infact diyers will pay more, so the business will make money, diyers ar not trouble makers and untidy, and successful livery yards are just that because the customer comes first, the livery is paying to be there, just like paying to go on holiday, so if the rules are tight, the yo is not a trouble maker with constant pms all should be good. Even full and part time liveries dont always pay their bill. Liveries want what they are paying for, safe stabling and fields, enough hay/haylage for their horses, no bitching, no nastiness, menages if available and reasonably good hacking. Dont forget the opening times, some yards only open at 8am and close at 8pm, so how is the paying livery supposed to do their horses before going to work, if you get my meaning.

Sorry if i offend, but as a diyer i will defend our status which seems to be tarnished by some bad diyers and sadly some foolish livery owners who have blamed their bad business acumen on diyers.

Sidney it is a business so therefore you are opening up your home to make an income, this is something you have to consider before going in to the business.

Good luck
 
I look for good turnout, safe fencing, friendly and like-minded liveries, a good manege with floodlights, a nice approachable yard owner, and clear rules that don't change for some people and not for others!

But I only go to DIY yards, and would never go to part or full, that's not why I got a horse.
 
Well, as a YO for the last 15 years, I would say,

Don't offer advice unless they ask for it.
Be prepared to suffer fools gladly.
Safety First!
Maintain your sense of humour at all times.
Other peoples training methods may appear er, interesting at times - but try remember -'many roads lead to Rome'

I could go on, but most people tend to want nice hacking and access to an arena, good storage for hay, bedding etc. They like the flexibility of visiting the yard whenever they want - even if the hours are a little strange, but mostly they like to feel they have somewhere relaxing and safe with nice vibes. Good luck!
 
Sounds lovely. On top of what you mention, I would also want the school to have floodlights for evening riding in the winter months, tearoom and toilet facilities.
 
I have two liveries with seven horses between them (4 and 3). Theirs and mine all have their own paddocks, one summer, one winter. To enjoy your liveries you want to look for people with more than one horse. My experiences of single horses, not getting on with mine or having to bring theirs in because you won't leave a horse out alone etc. My liveries are DIY and lovely but I have had many horrors along the way...
 
putasocinit said:
How nice for you. I do hope for you to succeed you have a surmountable amount of knowledge in keeping horses seeing as you are only offering full and part livery not DIY, seeing as people are going to have to entrust their horses welfare in your hands. Sadly once again the diyers get the fingers forked up at them, when infact diyers will pay more, so the business will make money, diyers ar not trouble makers and untidy, and successful livery yards are just that because the customer comes first, the livery is paying to be there, just like paying to go on holiday, so if the rules are tight, the yo is not a trouble maker with constant pms all should be good. Even full and part time liveries dont always pay their bill. Liveries want what they are paying for, safe stabling and fields, enough hay/haylage for their horses, no bitching, no nastiness, menages if available and reasonably good hacking. Dont forget the opening times, some yards only open at 8am and close at 8pm, so how is the paying livery supposed to do their horses before going to work, if you get my meaning.

Sorry if i offend, but as a diyer i will defend our status which seems to be tarnished by some bad diyers and sadly some foolish livery owners who have blamed their bad business acumen on diyers.

Good luck
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Hi there, not offended at all - I do take your point!
My concern over DIY is mainly because upon reading through answers on previous threads and talking to livery yard owners they have always told me that DIY'ers are more trouble than it's worth. I spoke to someone who runs a large yard 40+ in my current area and they say their main problem is people on DIY not turning up in a timely fashion, and having horses in who are flipping their lid because the lot on livery have been fed/turned out. Also they claim they have more trouble with damage to property etc etc. I'm certain this is not the case for all DIY's. I would be happy to have people on DIY - how would you suggest sorting the responsible people (as you sound!) from trouble-makers, this goes for full & part livery too?
 
From experience of being on DIY yards, it always seems that YO's are very stressed by various things. Payments, mess, not looking after horses, lack of privacy, all of that. One bad livery must be hell.
 
One More said:
Hi there, not offended at all - I do take your point!
My concern over DIY is mainly because upon reading through answers on previous threads and talking to livery yard owners they have always told me that DIY'ers are more trouble than it's worth. I spoke to someone who runs a large yard 40+ in my current area and they say their main problem is people on DIY not turning up in a timely fashion, and having horses in who are flipping their lid because the lot on livery have been fed/turned out. Also they claim they have more trouble with damage to property etc etc. I'm certain this is not the case for all DIY's. I would be happy to have people on DIY - how would you suggest sorting the responsible people (as you sound!) from trouble-makers, this goes for full & part livery too?
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Bit of a generalization.

I am about to move yards, and had a full blown interview before they accepted me. They do this with everyone to make sure they are taking on like-minded people who aren't going to argue or clash personality wise. They are very particular about who they take on (it's their house too), and will gladly turn someone down if they don't think they are going to fit in.

I didn't mind doing this as I know they think I will get along with the others!
 
It sounds lovely as it is. Any additional facilities are a bonus I think. I am sure you are aware that with just 3 liveries this will not be a money making venture for you, but get the right people in and hopefully you will have some income towards paying a groom / maintaining facilities / subsidising your horses.

I would say the main things from a liveries perspective -
1. Be honest from the outset about rules and what you can/cannot accommodate. Nothing worse than moving your horse and finding that the goalposts keep changing.
2. Turnout. Some people will prefer individual and some will prefer mixed. Plan in advance what you can offer. Also who will poo pick? Will you allow 24/7 or overnight in the summer?
3. School access - keeping the surface maintained is crucial. Will liveries be allowed to book sole use for lessons and are you willing to have external trainers on site? Will you have floodlights so that full time workers can still ride in winter?
4. Feeding. Do liveries have a choice of hay or haylage? Will you feed it adlib or will liveries be limited to a set volume - if he latter warn them up front.
5. Hard feed - is this included and if so is it big standard chaff/nuts/beet or will it be bespoke? My suggestion for just 3 liveries would be not included and you order in what they request and add to their bills (doesn't work so well on a large yard)
6. How much storage do you have? If you cannot accommodate 10 rugs and 3 saddles per livery just make it clear on what type of storage you offer.
7. How do you prefer to keep their beds and what bedding? I'd suggest limiting the amount you include and then billing extra for the messy horses. You will find some liveries quite fussy about depth and cleanliness of bed so factor this in.
8. Do you have storage room for trailers /lorries?

My advise is that given its just 3 boxes at your home address you should work out what your ideal liveries and horses would be - then model your set up around that and explain it to potential clients. You sound like you have a great set up so it shouldn't be too difficult to find like minded people to share it with
 
I didn't mean to generalize and lump everyone who has horses on DIY in the same boat, at all! I think sometimes I come across the wrong way online, was more trying to explain why I had been slightly put off offering it.
Honestly I'm very grateful for everyone's input, good or bad, and I will take everything on board and consider carefully!
 
Opening hours do need to allow for early morning trips to events / cubbing and evening events / training and for people who work full time. It can also take me until late to get plaited up ready for the morning. Horse walker a bonus not essentail. Winter turn out area, maybe a sand pen in case of wet weather, prolonged snow , lami etc.. Safe flat parking for lorries / trailers is v useful. proper wash down area, under cover tie up area, for grooming, taking up, under cover or at least well lit area for shoeing. DIY SPACES!!
 
Your horse breaks the fence fix it or pay. More than one horse is ideal. Rules horses mist be seen twice a day or yo does one end that cant be seen i.e. Gives hay am if owner can only be there at lunch time or hay pm if owner cant get there pm.

Dont give advice unless its a welfare issue. Treat everyone the same and dont listen to gossip not everyone gets on with everyone, character classes but as long as they dont take place on the yard, then its not a problem. Dont walk around making liveries feel they are encroaching on your space, you have opened up your home to run a business so there are going to be people around. Rules tidy up after you. Own fields so no fighting sbout whose turn to poo pick, you can tell already who hasnt done this.

Diys want the same as full and part time horses are their hobby, it isnt a case of wanting it cheaper, they just have the time or and like to do their own horses. Which means they might be around longer than others who just come and ride.

Successful business are those that keep their customers, no customers no business, so look after your liveries and that doesnt mean sacrificing your own horses to do that

Got to go to work will post later with current situation which could be interesting.

Shysmum references do not always work, and sometimes you may have left your last yard because the yo was a nutter as has been seen on previous threads here on h&h.
 
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Thanks putasocinit (love the name by the way), that's very helpful! I do realise that opening it up does mean people will want to be there, and need to be there early for cubbing or to go off competing. I was on a yard when I was about 14 I think, and was made to feel absolutely not welcome, and like I was always getting in the way or annoying someone, and all I wanted to do was see my pony! Top on my list of priorities would be to make sure everyone was happy, horses were happy, no bullying, and it was somewhere where people wanted to spend time looking after their horses and being there, rather than being pushed out and feeling like a nuisance.
Thank you ihatework, super helpful!
 
I work on a small full livery yard. 4 liveries including me and yard owner has too many horses of here own. Your facilities sounds great. The main thing is to make sure everything is clear in advance. A contract is the best way. You are obviously sensible and understand occasionally people will be early/late when competing etc. but this doesn't have to be an issue. In fact my YO is straight out on the yard if I am late back, just to find out how it went!

If you compete then possibly try to find like minded souls. It will always be hit and miss, but this might help. Also how much patience/time do you have? And think about this when wording the advert. We have had a number of liveries who require a lot of help and need escorting when hacking. This can get tiresome and effect what you can do with your own horses.

If you find the right people it can be great. BBQ's and people to ride with

Good luck
 
Agree about the bedding, the one thing that really irritated me when I was on full livery was the thiness of the bed and this was before the days of rubber matting, make clear how you will do the beds to any potential clients so they know what they will be getting!
Have to say I did DIY livery at a friend's house very successfully with no contracts or anything. Included in the price was her feeding and turning out/bringing in. which meant everyone got done at the same time. Have to say it worked out brilliantly, if she was going out I would do it, and I got lots of valuable advice.
 
I think Part Livery would be a great option for you to offer. Most people with horses on livery yards work full time and this is the perfect compromise. In terms of what this includes - morning feed, hay & water given, rugs changed, horse turned out. In the Winter I think it works best if you include a bring in option so you don't have owners turning up and bringing horses in during the pitch black. If you are keen not to have owners down at certain times its important to stipulate this from the start. A lot of yards also include an hours free private school use for lessons.
 
I am a DIY livery on a large yard (40+), work full time with 2 kids and 2 horses. I chose DIY as opposed to part or full livery because owning a horse (for me) is more than just riding it - if I just wanted to ride I would go off to a school at a fraction of the cost!The facilities that I value the most are individual summer paddocks and winter grazing with good grass, a floodlit school, a lunge pen, washdown points, undercover tie-up points, good vehicular access and good (safe) hacking, a strict worming programme. Most of these have been suggested before. On top of this I would have to say good security. You mention in your original post that you would offer a secure tack room - can I suggest that you check with insurers to see what they deem to be 'secure' as many will not pay out if certain criteria cannot be met. Clearly written contracts and yard rules are essential. If you are concerned about non-payers perhaps you should ask for livery in advance and some yards I have heard of take a refundable deposit. [On my ultimate wish list would be an indoor school, rug room with drier, warm water and a solarium!!! I can live in hope......]The ability to manage people is just as vital as any other skill and if you are open and fair you will do well. Best of luck :)
 
Yes, contracts/facilities/clearly-defined rules/turnout/safety/security, etc., are important . . . but really what matters most is the atmosphere. The best facilities/turnout/hacking in a hostile atmosphere won't make liveries want to stay for long . . . and a great atmosphere starts with the YO . . . if the YO doesn't gossip/bitch/moan or have favourites and is fair with EVERY livery, it will trickle down. Also, a good YO doesn't tolerate bullying, bitchiness, etc . . . to do that the YO needs to be present and visible on the yard with their eyes and ears wide open so they can form their own opinions about any shenanigans that may take place, rather than relying on hearsay and gossip.

P
 
Imho What ever livery you do I would never be the cheapest. ALL the cheapest yards by me attract more of the wrong sort than the right sort

I wouldn't go to a yard where times were restricted too much. Ie want to be there anytime between 7am and 10pm.
 
DIY'ers do get bad press, I am on a 35+ horse DIY only yard, there is no YM as such, I ve seen them once since being there 8 weeks, everyone just gets on with it how they want, no rules on attendance, no bitching, no hassle.

Personally I think you would be much better off offering your 3 places as a job lot, you'll get just one person to interface with, choose them well and it could work out really well.
 
Pollyp99 a so maybe thats the solution, yms shouldnt be around and then liveries would just get on and manage without interference, lol.

I agree with all above posts lots of interacting between each poster so nice to see everyone wants pretty much the same thing and has the same concerns.

I am currently on a yard which was bought out two yeas ago, the liveries which were already there then, were told if they didnt want full livery then leave, everyone left, the yard got in a couple of full liveries but that was it, so they decided to allow for diy and part as well, in the 2 years they have never been full (there are 11 boxes). Max of 4 liveries only at a time before someone left, when i arrived there were 2 diy liveries, since then 1 has left and i am going end off feb, so back to just 1 diy livery.

Since i have been there i have had to listen to bitching about the other liveries past and present incl their horses, only to find myself since i have handed in my notice to be treated similarly to how those other liveries were treated, but of course it is always the liveries fault, i have been ignored for days on end, i am only allowed to turn out in the field that is at the top of the yard and you have to walk through a muddy swamp to get there, but other livery can share field by house with ym 2 ponies, field is big enough for 8 horses.

The website says 365 days turn out, nonsense, limited turn out in winter and only 24/7 between may and sept, you have to use their bedding which is expensive and not very absorbant, but because they only put down a 2 inch bed for their horse and pony it works for them.

So it doesnt matter how helpful you are, how much more you pay because of more horses, how quickly you pay before the beginning of the next month, unless ym change their attitudes (i am talking about the mad ones now), then a livery business will never succeed. It costs more to keep replacing liveries than it does keeping those you have got.

This yard i would say now has a reputation as i understand an ex livery pasted something on facebook, i dont do facebook otherwise i might not have gone there as i would have been prewarned.

What i am trying to say is a yard that offers diy with an indoor and outdoor school and turn out, still cant even get diyers let alone full or part time just because of their reputation.

So it isnt always the livery at fault and if you can gain any lesson from this then i am happy to have helped. Good luck
 
LittleShetland and iHatework sum it up.
Contracts, rules and expectations should be laid out clearly in advance.
This is YOUR yard and YOUR home so you must be comfortable with how you wish to run it.

Do not apologies for wanting to provide Full Livery only. We only service Full liverys for a number of reasons.
If you want to attempt to make some return then the only obvious route is to provide Full livery on a limited number of boxes.
It sounds like a lovely yard with very nice facilities.
 
Ahh I am surprised by just how many posters - be it full/part/DIY all want the same things for their horses! General consensus seems to be if the facilities are good, and the YO and yard rules are fair then it works out if the liveries keep their end be it any of the various types! Liking the idea of seeing if one person would want all 3 boxes. Lots of wonderful advice thank you!


Another question, from my research there seems to be a difference of opinions when it comes to charging for things like using the rug washer/drier or solariums/hot water showers and the like. Would people prefer a higher price to cover cost of using these whenever they like, pay by a card system, or should it be included in the price of livery? I'd be inclined to think Solarium and hot water shower (indoor wash bay) to be covered in livery costs, and industrial washer/drier etc covered by a card system? Thoughts?
 
One for the diyers again, whilst people think money is only made from full and part liveries but the ym has to work to carry out these jobs to be paid, i can only see a bonus from the diyers where the ym doesnt have to do anything but sit back and take the proceeds from the box, really.

Solarium etc coin operated or card, not fair to, charge in livery if some dont use it or others use it more. These machines are a big cost to you, so you would be looking to get some back but it would take a long time, and most folk will just take their rug home and wash it.
 
putasocinit said:
Pollyp99 a so maybe thats the solution, yms shouldnt be around and then liveries would just get on and manage without interference, lol.
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Ha, well I was surprised when I arrived asked where is the YM, YO says we don't have one it's pure DIY, since then I've seen him (YO) once and have not had an issue. If something needs doing/fixing it gets noted in the office and you come back it's done. Yard is full (waiting list too) so it works for them.
 
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