Liverys Horse Damaging stable..Help!

A

AlfieDice 13

New User
Joined
12 December 2011
Messages
5
Location
Kent
Visit site
I run a small DIY livery yard. One of the Liverys horses - a 16.2 cb x tb heavyweight mare - is a stressful type and the owner is not cooperating with given her a calmer to keep her in check? She is also very marish and has to be turned out with an older pony as she bosses all the other horses around. She has recently been diagnosed (4 months ago) with navicular disease. She is still on daily turnout. She is a weaver and the owner will not put an anti weaving grill up - I also have a weaver who has a grill up and has not been seen to weave for years. Last year when it snowed the mare got so stressed at staying in for 24 hours that she pushed the front of the stables out about and broke the door. She did this a number of times and each time we fixed it. With the snow coming down yesterday we kept the horses in and this morning she has done it again. The owner had not given her calmer. The owner has moved her horse to be turned out until the snow melts. I am after some opinions.
 
What does your contract state about owners being responsible for damage to property?
If it's not clear then ask her to pay for the damage, if she won't and it really bothers you ask her to leave.
If she#s moved her horse to another yard anyway asking her to leave might not be too stressful for her.
 
if i am reading it right the horse is not currently at your yard? if not tell them that you are not prepared to have the horse back due to the level of damage it does to the stables
 
The contract does state that all damage by horse or owner or their associates are to be paid for. So I can charge her.
The horse is at one of my neighbours fields just for a new days until the snow melts.
 
I'm afraid it goes with the territory as a yard owner. Most horses are fine, but I have had my share of real trashers here. One that has been here 6 years now has broken no end of fence rails, dinted my landrover by rubbing his arse on it, sat on water drinkers and flooded stables, ALMOST broke the stable door and would have done if the farrier had not spotted him just in time (the slats were bulging out so fr they were an inch apart. I also had a box walker here who managed to wear through the soft stall rubber matting that costs £1500 stable to fit! Others have kicked holes in walls, ruined electric fencing, kicked out fence rails...

You have to decide when one horse becomes too much, and if the owner is not cooperating, then you can give them notice. So far I haven't done this, though I do have it written in the contracts that if a horse is exceptionally destructive, I can, at my discretion, bill the owner for any damages. I haven't done so far, but have been close to it sometimes!
 
I think you're well within your rights to add the costs to the bill especially if it's in the contract. If the owner won't pay, give them notice. You'll probably find they pay up quickly.
 
I think that there is a fine line between fair and acceptable wear and tear and actual persistant damage due to a horses behaviour, barging of doors does not come under acceptable behaviour in my book :( Root causes have to be looked at, what can I do, how far am I willing to go? As for anti-weave grills or full grills, if I felt they were necessary I would put them up (at my expense) my stables, my decision - non-negotiable, I can do what like with my own property, if owners don't approve then they can pay for repairs on a regular basis.

I swallow wear and tear, but try to avoid repetition (one horse chose to morph into a beaver and chomped through brand new cedar fence posts) despite having branches and old posts to chew on, my solution was to move him into a 'sterile' (sorry boy, but tough) paddock created entirely with T posts and wire and gave him an assortment of posts and logs to munch on.

If a horse trashed stables (as OP describes) then I would refuse to stable it, and would attempt to find alternative solutions that did suit the horse, be that full time turnout, a different stabling arrangement or alterations to the stable itself. If a solution couldn't be found then I would consider advising the owner that they look elsewhere for a place that suited the horse better as it obviously was not happy, and sometimes, let's be honest, horses do not settle in some places for whatever reason.
 
Last edited:
Agree wagtail.

If I was the owner I'd be annoyed at you sticking nose in to management and just expect damages added on as the contract or notice given.
As yo you should partly build this in, not every horse will be ideal so you need to decide whether you want them at the yard or not. I've never charged damages like fences or stables as it comes part and parcel, if there is a real issue then the owner finds a mutual compromise or goes.

Personally it sounds like the horse could do with just being turned out full time. If you can't offer this I'd then give fair notice or charge damages.

I don't think calmer is your business personally. Grill would recevie notification - a grill will go up in 30days non negotiable. Don't get into trying to fix someone's horse though.

As to mareish and what she's turned out with - again that comes hand in hand with running a yard. Finding suitable turnout groups/turnout paddocks or giving notice if you cannot provide this.
 
And this is why YO's struggle to make a profit.....

Whilst I admire Wagtails' and other's tolerance, at my yard I would not have a horse on my yard that did damage to £1500 worth of flooring, or pushed through the front of it's stable. My yard contract states that any damage done is at the cost of the owner - if this is paid then that is fine, but in reality it is often hard to recoup the money and can cause tension on the yard, whereby the client may leave, with the repairs left for the YO to foot the bill.

I have DIY's and at £25 per week, just replacing a few fence posts or reseeding gateways makes a sizeable dent in the profits, let alone forking out for replacing stabling.

Of course we all expect wear and tear, but if a horse is causing excessive damage, and the owner is not prepared to meet you at least half way, then I am afraid I wouldn't have that horse on my property.

As Wagtail has said, it is down to you to decide what is acceptable....
 
sorry, as a yo charging £25pw, i would expect livery to stop horse damaging my property & to pay for any damages done. why should yo's keep replacing gate springs at £12 a time, replace chewed threw fencing & other damages?! yo's dont make much profit without having to pay out for other peoples destructive horses. i choose not to buy wood chewers but if a livery does, why should yo suffer monetary loss?? i bet if said livery actually owned stable/yard a grill would go straight up.
 
Sidney said:
And this is why YO's struggle to make a profit.....

Whilst I admire Wagtails' and other's tolerance, at my yard I would not have a horse on my yard that did damage to £1500 worth of flooring, or pushed through the front of it's stable. My yard contract states that any damage done is at the cost of the owner - if this is paid then that is fine, but in reality it is often hard to recoup the money and can cause tension on the yard, whereby the client may leave, with the repairs left for the YO to foot the bill.

I have DIY's and at £25 per week, just replacing a few fence posts or reseeding gateways makes a sizeable dent in the profits, let alone forking out for replacing stabling.

Of course we all expect wear and tear, but if a horse is causing excessive damage, and the owner is not prepared to meet you at least half way, then I am afraid I wouldn't have that horse on my property.

As Wagtail has said, it is down to you to decide what is acceptable....
Click to expand...

This. First time offences and also ones where wear and tear is a big part of it eg horse kicks out a plank of stable wall but that part of wall has been leaking for years so is soft as anything, that would be under the YOs remit to repair.

But repeated serious damage, would have to be charged to owners (given suitable clauses/warning) since its not wear and tear and it would be impossible for a DIY yard to recoup that amount of money from the very marginal profits to be made. The posters who have suggested YOs should account for this sort of thing in their charges are not being realistic - if a YO did this they would likely have no clients as they would be uncompetitive in their rates and people would go elsewhere. Telling such clients that its higher because if someone elses horse kicks out their stable they wont have to pay for it wont cut any ice because noone thinks their horse is like that!

However, it is totally inappropriate OP for you to be insisting that a horse has any kind of anything added to its food to calm it, that is not your business, only your property. Instead you need to decide if the horse can stay or not at your yard, assuming no calmer. If not, give them notice to leave.
 
I think all who have said it have run yards ;) point being you decide that limit. We always repaired things but if a horse was repeatedly destructive/violent etc you found a suitable solution (turnout, turnout groups, paddock size/fencing) or you asked to leave.

So yes it is built in as a safety net for instances like this, but if it becomes repetative you deal with it. Op has already said she has written in to charge damages - so do this and/or give notice.
 
(There is also a very obvious reason in this case - the stable and being in so long) I'd full turnout or give notice because I couldn't provide suitable turnout for this horse. I know one of mine would go through a stable if used to turn out and then stabled for a day straight (so I would always keep on decent turn out).

The livery clearly isn't happy with horse in as had gone elsewhere while snow is on the ground. So is it in contract that they may be kept in 24hours in situations like this? If so livery should move - if not then I'd not be impressed having a bill if I hadn't wanted horse stabled 24hrs and there was an issue with this.
 
good grief you yard owners are quite tolerant.
I had a mare who bit a chunk out of someone walking past her stable, they must of been close I thought, but went and bought a grill immediately, didn't want her removing a small childs head.
My gelding has also on a couple of occasions booted the rails in the outdoor and broken them, which I have paid to have replaced or once got my husband to do the replacing with new rails.
 
As a horse owner i would be looking to move, no way would i want a horse kept somewhere that he or she needed "calming" to satisfy the ym.
Once in a blue moon or a horse that is on box rest - then after discussion with a vet - i would sedate but not as part of a normal week.

But again, if my horses did damage to the yo's property i would happily cough up the money to rectify - in deed i have paid for gateway mats, fencing and a water trough so mine get to play in a 4 and half acre field.
 
To me the horse sounds very stressed, so I would look at if he was suited to being stabled, some really aren't, and that needs looking at. I wouldn't be impressed at being told to give a horse calmer, although I do use them if mine are stressed. When mine have been on yards, anddone damage which isn't due to general wear andtear, then I have fixed it myself, or paid for it to be done. If my horse was as unhappy as this one sounds I would be moving.
 
I would be asking the livery to find somewhere else to keep her horse. If the horse won't tolerate being kept in and shows this by trashing the place, then your yard is not the best place for this horse to live. I don't see how either you or the owner can argue with that. The best solution is if you part company, hopefully on good terms with damages paid for.
 
I swallow the cost of all damages done by others horses. My prices reflect this however, as keeping your horse at my place is not cheap. A number of horses at my place are here only temporarily, although many of them do return on a regular basis. Any horse who is continually damaging my property or a problem is either not allowed to return or I work out a different way of keeping said horse and others safe. I would never tell an owner to give their horse a calmer, that's entirely up to the owner to do that. I have custom built stables in an American barn and although I rarely use them, if I were to have a horse like the one in OPs post then for one, the horse could never push my stables out of kilter, (they were built to withstand elephants!) but if mine weren't build as toughly as they are then I would put up a full grill and the horse wouldn't be able to push the stables out of place.
 
My sister's tb has a habit of leaning/throwing himself at his door. It's come off completely (the entire door frame - stone buildings with wood fixtures) due to the wind catching it and it being weakened by Jazz so we've bought brackets and a stall chain to put up just behind the door so he's leaning on that and doesn't damage the door again - would something similar be an option for this horse?
Also if you want a grill up then put one up, don't give the livery a choice - it's your yard
 
I don't think its realistic to expect the owner to give her horse a calmer every time it snows in case you don't turn out, and to keep horses in every time it snows, as it can cause behavioural issues in the sanest horses. If you want anti-weeve grills in your boxes, do it yourself.

You can ask the livery to pay for any damage, tbh if its expensive full livery, I'd expect the YO to cover it, at least the first time. If its DIY then you could more reasonably expect the livery to at least contribute.

But it sounds as if the owner is dealing with the problem - by moving the horse elsewhere so the mare can get turnout. You can hardly complain about that? Also, the livery isn't getting anything right now for her livery money!
 
Mithras said:
I don't think its realistic to expect the owner to give her horse a calmer every time it snows in case you don't turn out, and to keep horses in every time it snows, as it can cause behavioural issues in the sanest horses. If you want anti-weeve grills in your boxes, do it yourself.

You can ask the livery to pay for any damage, tbh if its expensive full livery, I'd expect the YO to cover it, at least the first time. If its DIY then you could more reasonably expect the livery to at least contribute.

But it sounds as if the owner is dealing with the problem - by moving the horse elsewhere so the mare can get turnout. You can hardly complain about that? Also, the livery isn't getting anything right now for her livery money!
Click to expand...

All of this - sorry to be lazy!
 
Natch said:
Why do you want an anti-weave grill to go up?
Click to expand...

This. My horse weaves but I wouldn't want bars up (it would make him worse) and, as he's not doing any damage to the yard/stables by weaving, I would not be happy if my YO insisted on putting bars up.

On all the yards I've been on (DIY and part), initial damage done to well maintained stabling would be written off (accidents happen) subsequent damage done would be billed. If the horse is showing destructive behaviour I would be looking at why this is and suggesting the yard's routine/set-up isn't suitable for the horse.
 
Wagtail said:
I'm afraid it goes with the territory as a yard owner. Most horses are fine, but I have had my share of real trashers here. One that has been here 6 years now has broken no end of fence rails, dinted my landrover by rubbing his arse on it, sat on water drinkers and flooded stables, ALMOST broke the stable door and would have done if the farrier had not spotted him just in time (the slats were bulging out so fr they were an inch apart. I also had a box walker here who managed to wear through the soft stall rubber matting that costs £1500 stable to fit! Others have kicked holes in walls, ruined electric fencing, kicked out fence rails...

You have to decide when one horse becomes too much, and if the owner is not cooperating, then you can give them notice. So far I haven't done this, though I do have it written in the contracts that if a horse is exceptionally destructive, I can, at my discretion, bill the owner for any damages. I haven't done so far, but have been close to it sometimes!
Click to expand...

If my horse did this, Id offer to pay for it, even if I had to do it in installments!
 
I would be asking the horse owner to leave tbh. We have had one person keep their horse here (for a nominal fee, covered forage and nothing else) she allowed the bedding to get to such a level that the pony was pushing the wooden planking out, there are three courses of brick below the wood, and the 'deep litter' was three months in. I mended the walls several times, with no help from the livery and no offer of any recompense. She left that spring.
 
For goodness sake it's your property and you decide who stays and who goes, if this horse is so stressed out and damageing your property and the owner isn't willing to pay up ask her to go elsewhere
 
Sorry, goes with the territory. It sounds as if your yard doesn't suit the horse. And it sounds as if the horse doesn't suit your yard either.
 
I had a livery horse like this and after five years I had had enough. He broke gates, rails, a weaving grill, drinker and kicked a couple of holes in the stable kick boards.

The last straw was when he started to jump the fences in to my horses and attacked my son's pony mare. Although the rails were always replaced by the owner I always felt as though they thought I was being a bit petty asking them to and they almost found his antics amusing.

After he seriously attacked the pony I asked them to leave. I would do the same in your case as you will probably end up feeling resentful and the atmosphere will be bad if they stay.

Incidentally, I can understand about the calmer a bit as the above horse used to get very upset every year at fireworks and I asked the owner to administer sedalin as I worried for my property and he would upset all of the others. I also couldn't bear to see the horse so upset as owner would always leave me to check while they went out to the fireworks!
 
Last edited:
lachlanandmarcus said:
However, it is totally inappropriate OP for you to be insisting that a horse has any kind of anything added to its food to calm it, that is not your business, only your property. Instead you need to decide if the horse can stay or not at your yard, assuming no calmer. If not, give them notice to leave.
Click to expand...

I agree, while I sympathise with you, and have had liveries that have destroyed things, I think that you're asking a lot of this livery. I can't see how an anti-weave grill will do much, or really why you're that worried about it weaving - its not something others really copy.. I would be more inclined to suggest a mirror. Re the stressing when in, does it have to stay in? Is there a reason? Would a mirror help? My husband's horse used to barge the door down at first - because it wasn't strong enough. A strong wooden bar that slid across in front of the door (fittings less than £10 from Robinsons) helped a lot.

I had a lot of things break when I had DIYs, I never thought for a moment about charging them. I did, in the end, stop doing livery, as it was eating the meagre profit we made! I do feel for you though, its heartbreaking when you see something damaged.

I don't like the sound of stables that can be pushed out of place by a horse. A lot of horses will lean/itch/kick on a wall at some point, you want it solid!

amymay said:
Sorry, goes with the territory. It sounds as if your yard doesn't suit the horse. And it sounds as if the horse doesn't suit your yard either.
Click to expand...

It does sound as if this horse and this livery don't suit you, so perhaps suggest they think of moving on?
 
My horse once pushed out the back brick wall of his stable by leaning too far out the window to see what was going on. I was mortified and my FIRST reaction was to offer to pay for the damage. Luckily for me YO admitted the wall was so badly built a shetland could have done it. But surely when your horse causes that amount of damage then you offer to pay? Especially when it appears to be an ongoing problem and not a one-off.

I really would first ask for compensation now and for future episodes and, if she doesn't agree, give her notice.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top