Living out 24/7 not thriving 🙁

[Cob days]

Hoping for advice as I find this forum really helpful for people's different experiences. First post on here so be kind. Basically I moved my 6 year old cob to a new yard last May so she could have 24/7 turnout all year and more help with her education. She was slightly over weight when she arrived but with more work and living out she lost some weight and was doing well enjoying her new found freedom. This has been her first winter out. She is unclipped and rugged. Issues started in January with her being reluctant to go forward into trot or dropping out of trot while tossing her head. This continued for a few weeks so I had her teeth done and have saddler coming on Monday. Yesterday she just seems a bit depressed. She has lost more weight especially from her hind quarters and I noticed she was biting her sides and has a bald patch. She is shedding a lot as expected this time of year. Yard owner has thought her reluctance to go forward is attitude but she's quite forward going to it seems to me there's pain somewhere. I will contact the vet this week but wanted opinions on horses living out getting ulcers? I always assumed stabled horses were more prone to them. She gets fed and lib haylage but only for part of the day when they are brought down to be fed in paddocks at the yard. I'm hoping I haven't made a mistake moving her to 24/7 living out. Maybe she needs stabled at night during winter. Also she's a chunky little cob normally

 

[Needtoretire]

You might find she is not having enough long fibre, a horse that stands empty for too long will easily develop ulcers, they do need to have something to pick at all the time. That can be tricky with horses prone to weight gain, but can be achieved by mixing a bit of straw through the hay rations.

My guess, reading your comments, would be ulcers and a change in routine is needed, not necessarily stabling (that might make the ulcers worse if she isn't used to being in). The majority of native/cob types will thrive living out if they are suitably fed with long fibre and have access to some shelter.

 

[Patterdale]

Define ‘living out.’ There are wide variations - is she in a small paddock mainly mud? Or a vast area mud free with good shelter, constant forage and a herd?

Mine are in the latter and even they are cheesed off this year. This weather has been relentless and as a VERY staunch supporter of horses living out, even I would have brought mine in for some respite if I could.

What is her living out environment like?

 

[BallyRoanBaubles]

Is there anything to eat for the part of the day she is not in the paddock getting hay? My fell is living out but has ad-lib hay at all times

 

[Cob days]

Define ‘living out.’ There are wide variations - is she in a small paddock mainly mud? Or a vast area mud free with good shelter, constant forage and a herd?

Mine are in the latter and even they are cheesed off this year. This weather has been relentless and as a VERY staunch supporter of horses living out, even I would have brought mine in for some respite if I could.

What is her living out environment like?

They have access to a number of winter fields rotated through the winter so for example the fields she was in Oct/Nov became muddy to she's been moved through several others where she spends most of her day. The one she is in ATM is hilly and free draining and not actually that muddy! There are lots of mature hedges and tree lines. The yo moves different herds in and out of fields so she may be out all night in a field then brought down to the yard in the morning to where hay is put out in paddocks. I suppose part of the issue is yard isn't always open to liveries and I am relying on the yo for her feeding routine which was fine in summer but in winter at times I am unsure of her schedule. I can now see the impacts of that after going from a stabled system were I filled her hay nets and new exactly how much and when she ate

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would speak to the yard owner and find out how much hay they are getting if the fields are sparse this time of year they will consume roughly the same amount of hay a stabled horse will eat.

Mine live out on just a few acres so not plentiful grass so in winter they basically get ad lib hay.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Ours are living out in a field with a shelter and an apron of mud control mats. Their hay is put into the shelter, 4 times per day. On good weather days, there is often hay left over, on days when it has rained most of the time, there is none left.
I would ask YO for exact details of the management that *you* are paying for.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Is she fed alone, or does she have to compete for food? Also a lot depends on where you are in the country. Living out in Northumberland or Dartmoor is a whole lot different than in a more sheltered area. Are you able to observe her to see if she is happy in the herd situation?

 

[Above the snowline]

Could she be eating something unsuitable in the hedges/trees?

 

[Michen]

I’d run a set of bloods as first port of call.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Lots if great advice above. Its been a very mild winter. If she is unclipped but rugged, is she too hot?

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s been an awful winter for horses .
My in work horses have lived out in winter for a few years now I had to give up in the second week of January they where miserable .
Itching makes horses very very unhappy and it’s very very hard to keep fully coated horses happy in rugs once casting starts .

 

[ester]

It's not ad lib if it's only for part of the day, given that she has also lost week it seems likely she isn't getting enough. As it's been persisting since January behaviour wise I agree I'd be handing over to the vet and likely scoping.

 

[Goldenstar]

I’d run a set of bloods as first port of call.

That’s the most I would do .
It’s been a miserable time for horses they longing for the proper spring .
I don’t think I would be spending a fortune just yet if nothing changes .
Oh and I am assuming she in a zero rug if not put her in one and get the rug off asap my horses are fully clipped they are in zeros ( they are back out now ) and I will get them off in the first few days of suitable weather.

 

[Cob days]

Is she fed alone, or does she have to compete for food? Also a lot depends on where you are in the country. Living out in Northumberland or Dartmoor is a whole lot different than in a more sheltered area. Are you able to observe her to see if she is happy in the herd situation?

She has to compete for food. There are several herds and she is normally in a small group of mares that don't bully her though sometimes she is in with a bigger group and I also wondered that. When I bring her in I offer hay while I'm grooming etc and she doesn't seem that hungry. I am in Ireland. It's an area of rolling hills away from the coast so no majorly exposed areas

 

[Cob days]

That’s the most I would do .
It’s been a miserable time for horses they longing for the proper spring .
I don’t think I would be spending a fortune just yet if nothing changes .
Oh and I am assuming she in a zero rug if not put her in one and get the rug off asap my horses are fully clipped they are in zeros ( they are back out now ) and I will get them off in the first few days of suitable weather.

She is in a medium rug but I will change it to light tomorrow on your advice thank you

 

[Cob days]

Thank you everyone. Some really helpful advice here as this my first year in this type of out 24/7 system. I really appreciate it

 

[Arzada]

The yo moves different herds in and out of fields so she may be out all night in a field then brought down to the yard in the morning to where hay is put out in paddocks. I suppose part of the issue is yard isn't always open to liveries and I am relying on the yo for her feeding routine which was fine in summer but in winter at times I am unsure of her schedule.

This is what I would want to know - what size are these haying paddocks and how many horses are in them and how many hay 'stations'?

When is the yard closed to liveries?

 

[slimjim86]

Normally mine gains weight in the winter as they are fed hay and she doesn't need it. This year I moved her and the Shetland to a field that had been rested and thought there was enough grass to get her though ( there's still grass there now as its a big well draining field and only the 2 of them in it), this is the first winter that I've actually had to top her up as there's nothing in the grass. If yours is spending lots of time waiting to come into the paddock that they get hay in then I would think ulcers are definitely possible x

 

[Equi]

How are her feet? Being so wet for such a prolonged time with no time to dry out (weather..can’t be helped) can leave them soft and thrush prone. This can make any horse a bit reluctant to go forward.

 

[Cob days]

This is what I would want to know - what size are these haying paddocks and ow many horses in them and how many hay 'stations'?

When is the yard closed to liveries?

One long passage between 2 paddocks filled with hay. Not sure of the total number of horses feeding at any one time. Always plenty of hay when I'm there. Yard is closed Sundays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays but we have arranged with yo to go Wednesday evenings so 2 days a week closed really. It's a pretty low maintenance system for liveries as yo does everything including moving horses round fields and feeding. No mucking or filling haynets or competing for turnout which is great but over winter hasn't been great for my pony unfortunately

 

[HopOnTrot]

If it’s wet and hill could she have slipped and tweaked something behind? Mine did this one year and needed time off and physio and moved to a flatter field.

I think vet is your first port of call as it could be anything really.

 

[Cob days]

How are her feet? Being so wet for such a prolonged time with no time to dry out (weather..can’t be helped) can leave them soft and thrush prone. This can make any horse a bit reluctant to go forward.

She's seen farrier recently and they are fine. I haven't noticed any problems though they are so muddy sometimes it's hard to see properly. We do lift and clean them regularly

 

[Cob days]

If it’s wet and hill could she have slipped and tweaked something behind? Mine did this one year and needed time off and physio and moved to a flatter field.

I think vet is your first port of call as it could be anything really.

Agree completely. So hard to tell with horses

 

[SEL]

I had a very miserable (but fat) little cob in January. Bloods showed her liver was a bit off so she's been on a supplement but I think what's really helped her attitude is clipping. I had done a chase clip last Nov but to help her lose weight I took it all off at the end of Jan. She perked up very quickly - hot and itchy it's been so warm.

Don't rely on them being thin to diagnose ulcers. My Appy had them and she's never, ever been thin. She's an anxious personality though and is at her best in a quiet established herd so it might be yours just isn't gelling with her field mates

 

[Cob days]

I was going to ask you guys on here more bout bloods. Did you ask for specific blood test? Is there a normal suite of tests for horses being bit under the weather? I feel if I just ask a vet to do blood tests I'll have no idea exactly what for. Helps to have some knowledge on these things for anyone who's been through a similar situation

 

[Needtoretire]

I was going to ask you guys on here more bout bloods. Did you ask for specific blood test? Is there a normal suite of tests for horses being bit under the weather? I feel if I just ask a vet to do blood tests I'll have no idea exactly what for. Helps to have some knowledge on these things for anyone who's been through a similar situation

You can explain to your vet what your concerns are, the vet will have a look at the horse and should discuss your worming protocol and records. Blood tests will find any raised liver enzymes, raised inflammatory levels which would indicate possible infections and help put a plan together to care for your horse. Never be afraid to ask for help from your vet, no question will be judged as silly and your vet will far sooner be happy to put a stop to a problem starting than fight with a long term problem.

I have a horse who throughout his life, (he is nearly 30 now), despite being fed at optimum levels, always showed low level anaemia. He always looked in rude health but the bloods picked his problem up.

 

[Cob days]

You can explain to your vet what your concerns are, the vet will have a look at the horse and should discuss your worming protocol and records. Blood tests will find any raised liver enzymes, raised inflammatory levels which would indicate possible infections and help put a plan together to care for your horse. Never be afraid to ask for help from your vet, no question will be judged as silly and your vet will far sooner be happy to put a stop to a problem starting than fight with a long term problem.

I have a horse who throughout his life, (he is nearly 30 now), despite being fed at optimum levels, always showed low level anaemia. He always looked in rude health but the bloods picked his problem up.

You're absolutely right. It's time to get the vet out and I'm sure they'll answer any questions. This is a learning curve

 

[Goldenstar]

Well I think it’s as likely as not the bloods will tell you nothing.
But that would be a good thing
Then I would wait for better weather .

 

[Goldenstar]

Btw mine in Northumberland next to coast so it’s a chilly place are growing in clips and two out of the three are out tonight without rugs the who was fully clipped in January but feels the cold is in a zero in case it rains
Being hot and shedding can make horses profoundly miserable .