Living out unrugged and clipping?

[Tnavas]

sometimes trotting out some paragraph from a 1970s PC/BHS type stable manual just doesn't cut it anymore-be it vet med, stable management or training. there. I've said it. its the referendum, I just don' care anymore..

My knowledge is from 40+years of practical experience in two countries looking after hundreds of horses! not just from owning a few!

 

[JFTDWS]

Excuse me - I also actually come from the UK and know perfectly well what the temperature and weather is like. So also suggest that YOU engage your brain before opening your mouth, look to your left and read by my avatar!
.

Are you really suggesting that because you once lived here, you are aware of what the weather is like now? Because obviously it doesn't vary day to day or year to year? I suggest you reconsider engaging your brain

eta - I can actually type without opening my mouth, FYI. I can also read without moving my lips. Can you?

 

[ester]

I don't know how you would expect a highland/exmoor winter coat not to sweat in medium work!

 

[PolarSkye]

I'm talking about the number of horses and ponies that are rugged when they need nothing.

Well, I'm with you there - but you did make a rather blanket statement about horses who had been trace clipped needing at least wool rug further up the thread - which is why I responded with "it depends"

Once you remove the coat you need to provide a replacement for that lost coat. A bib clip removes very little coat (rain has usually dripped off before reaching these areas) so doesn't compromise the animals well being, but remove anything above the 'drip' line and the horse needs some protection.

No argument from me - but then I understand the purpose of clipping - as do most people on this forum. However, if the weather remains mild (which it currently is here in Blighty) even a full clip wouldn't require rugging IF the horse had adequate shelter (trees, etc.), was otherwise healthy and in good condition, etc.

Autumn is always a tough time for deciding whether to clip/rug etc because the weather changes so rapidly. To be honest I cannot understand why your horses are sweating so much, could it just be that they are not fit enough.

Or perhaps they are natives and very hairy and the temperature is above 25 degrees (as it was today - I'm a hairy native and I was sweaty).

I live in a far warmer country than most of you.

Then why do you feel that how you manage your horse is relevant to most of the posters here?

The unfit horses sweat, the fit ones rarely.

Do you have hairy, native (as in native to the UK) horses there?

None of our show horses in summer are clipped as it would spoil their coat. Some of the show jumpers with horses that have heavier type coats and are in very hard work may clip.

Clipping "fashions" (for want of a better word) here in the UK vary between the disciplines . . . ALL of the showjumpers are clipped year round - even in the summer - the eventers are usually given a full body clip (without saddle patch) but legs left on - can't speak for show ponies but I'm sure you're right about not interfering with coats . . . bottom line is that people clip for all sorts of reasons - but it's up to owners to figure out how to rug for their horse's needs, the weather, etc.

In winter, in Christchurch it snows, none of my school horses were clipped, they were fit and rarely sweated up, they wore one wool lined canvas cover, that went on and stayed on. Even the racehorses are rarely clipped, and many are turned out during the day with one wool lined cover on.

That's great - warm horses are happy horses.

My own will sweat buckets in a synthetic cover but doesn't in a canvas one. Regardless of how much they tell you, waterproof, synthetic covers do not breath.
That's why synthetic materials are so great at keeping the wind out.

I've never known mine sweat in a synthetic rug - unless he was doing the wall of death along the fence line for three hours at a time - in which case he'd have sweated withOUT a rug. I am far happier putting him in something light and breathable (isn't modern technology wonderful) that isn't going to get heavy when wet and pull on his withers and rub him.

I know myself I feel far more comfortable doing physical work in my Drisabone coat than I do in my synthetic jacket, the synthetic one raises my temperature and causes me to sweat. Fine for standing around at seminars but not for working in.

I don't have a Drisabone . . . but I do have a Barbour - one of the old-fashioned waxed canvas ones - and I hate wearing it when it's wet . . . it gets super heavy and I sweat like a porker in it. When it rains and I'm working hard, I don't wear a coat. But then, I'm not a horse.

A fit horse deals better with work load and temperature changes than an unfit one

I agree with the workload part, but I'm not sure about the temperature part . . . surely that's down to a multitude of factors . . . some horses DO feel the cold/shiver when wet, some don't - regardless of type/breed, etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I stand firmly behind my original statement that "it depends" . . .

OP - I'm sorry - this has gotten a little wayward . . . trust your instincts . . . clip/rug as you see fit - your horse will tell you if it's cold or unhappy - ditto if it's hot/sweaty/uncomfortable. It's all about common sense really.

P

 

[JFTDWS]

I don't know how you would expect a highland/exmoor winter coat not to sweat in medium work!

Exactly. Mine currently has more coat than most blood horses grow in the depths of winter - and it's over 20 degrees here! Three weeks ago he was doing 6-8km solid canter work and barely sweating. This week, forty minutes schooling has left him dripping. I don't think his fitness is the issue here.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

My knowledge is from 40+years of practical experience in two countries looking after hundreds of horses! not just from owning a few!

Why do you suppose you are the only one to have such experience? You never know who you are talking to online.
You are you not all that up to date and you don't know everything, although with all your experience, I'd have thought you'd appreciate that.

 

[Tnavas]

But you don't know what it is like here now! That is the point.

I suspect your horses are more aclimatised to that sort of environment at that sort of time of year. Ours are expecting autumn to be well on the way and we are +20 and humid!

This time last year I was in the UK and though at times it was hot and humid it was not as hot and humid as it gets hear.

Heat is heat, humidity is humidity.

 

[Tnavas]

Why do you suppose you are the only one to have such experience? You never know who you are talking to online.
You are you not all that up to date and you don't know everything, although with all your experience, I'd have thought you'd appreciate that.

I don't but when I am told I know nothing I will defend myself. My knowledge is not just from a BHS manual it is from extensive practical experience.

 

[ester]

sometimes trotting out some paragraph from a 1970s PC/BHS type stable manual just doesn't cut it anymore-be it vet med, stable management or training. there. I've said it. its the referendum, I just don' care anymore..

My knowledge is from 40+years of practical experience in two countries looking after hundreds of horses! not just from owning a few!

But it often seems more like the former when apparently no synthetic materials are breathable :rolleyes3: - Though I don't even actually know whether double rugging just involves 2 rugs, 2 new zealands or what and I did grow up using wool blankets (just an actual blanket not a rug) as under rugs and New Zealands - don't miss them for my rhinos that my pony has never sweated in, never got wet in and they dry overnight (oh and I can lift them) - much like my musto coats. Perhaps they just make really rubbish coats in NZ?

 

[JFTDWS]

This time last year I was in the UK and though at times it was hot and humid it was not as hot and humid as it gets hear.

Heat is heat, humidity is humidity.

If I recall correctly, you were in the UK earlier this year. After coat change time. How is that remotely relevant to now, when we're well into winter-coat season for natives? The POINT is that this weather is UNSEASONAL in THIS country, for the horses and ponies who have EVOLVED to live in the normal SEASONAL conditions. Is this a hard concept for you to grasp?

I guess it's about as hard as distinguishing between "hear" and "here"...

 

[ester]

This time last year I was in the UK and though at times it was hot and humid it was not as hot and humid as it gets hear.

Heat is heat, humidity is humidity.

Yup and presumably your horses are more used to it, no? that was my point! And not sure how last year counts as now either...

 

[Dizzy socks]

It is exceptionally hot. My poor Shetland is sweating buckets standing in the field....

I've never known her do that before.

 

[PolarSkye]

It is exceptionally hot. My poor Shetland is sweating buckets standing in the field....

I've never known her do that before.

Yes, poor old Rog (Kal's field companion, a shetland) - who has Cushings and is rather woolly anyway - had sweaty ears when I brought the boys in this morning. To be fair, he IS unfit (hasn't done a lick of work for a few years now - but he is a senior citizen and has earned it), but he wouldn't normally be sweating at this time of year.

P

 

[RunToEarth]

If I recall correctly, you were in the UK earlier this year. After coat change time. How is that remotely relevant to now, when we're well into winter-coat season for natives? The POINT is that this weather is UNSEASONAL in THIS country, for the horses and ponies who have EVOLVED to live in the normal SEASONAL conditions. Is this a hard concept for you to grasp?

I guess it's about as hard as distinguishing between "hear" and "here"...

I don't mean to sound like shils, but this is why people should stop buying cobs/Natives. Buy a TB and for Christ sake stop wittering about clipping in SEPTEMBER.

 

[*hic*]

I do so wish I could find the photos and video of my elderly, thin-skinned, fully-clipped, 15/16ths TB rolling naked in the snow. He had a blast until the sun went in and he started to get chilly.

 

[Auslander]

 

[JFTDWS]

I don't mean to sound like shils, but this is why people should stop buying cobs/Natives. Buy a TB and for Christ sake stop wittering about clipping in SEPTEMBER.

I know, what was I thinking?! I'd have got an OTTTB for a fraction of the price, wouldn't have to eat like a labrador (one meal a day ) to squeeze onto it, and none of this ghastly hair either!


Oh, sexy, Aus. Lovely selfie there...

 

[Dave's Mam]

Oh my!

 

[Tnavas]

:cool4:

 

[joycec]

I still buy them! They are far more comfortable for the horse to wear - they don't sweat up as they tend to do in a synthetic.

Rubbish. My horses all rubbed in canvas turnouts, they were heavy and clammy. They are far more comfortable in synthetics and mine don't sweat in them.

To be honest a lot of you rug needlessly - horses don't melt in the rain and are no different than they were twenty years ago - the majority of horses that lived out never wore rugs.

Oh make your mind up! Just now you were saying any horse with any clip needs a rug. Which is of course rubbish too.


You don't half talk some rot for someone with all your experience

 

[Tnavas]

Depends how much and where you remove it from. A basic bib and low throat is fine to be left up rugged. A trace needs at least one wool lined rug, any more off and you need to double rug.

Rubbish. My horses all rubbed in canvas turnouts, they were heavy and clammy. They are far more comfortable in synthetics and mine don't sweat in them.


Oh make your mind up! Just now you were saying any horse with any clip needs a rug. Which is of course rubbish too.


You don't half talk some rot for someone with all your experience

Note my first post above

1 - I said once you clip above the drip line - then YOU RUG, a belly or bib clip will be fine without one

2 - A trace clip will generally be fine in ONE RUG - preferably wool lined as this is a good fabric for warmth even when wet

3 - A full clip will need to be double rugged - with the canvas covers - I had additional wool under rugs to add warmth

Re you covers rubbing - the rugs DID NOT fit your horse! If I can manage to rug 32 school horses and ponies in a Christchurch winter and not have cover rubs then you should be able to find covers that fit too.

I had to try different makes and brands until I got ones that fitted.

These days people have horses rugged year round - whether in or out. I remember the stabled horses not wearing rugs in summer - even linen sheets as they got too hot but now it seems that every horse has to have a rug on.

Thankfully there are still some sensible people around who still allow their horse to use its coat as nature intended. Old horses or very thin skinned wussy TB might actually need one, there is no problem putting rugs on them but the majority don't.

Ask many of you why you rug your horse - answer because it keeps them cleaner!

 

[marmalade76]

Yep, last year one of mine had a bib/apron clip and was not rugged at all. Only took it to just past the girth, did not clip his whole belly and he has plenty of natural shelter. He kept his condition well with very little feed (he is a fatty, mind) so yes, if it suits the horse and it keeps condition well then go for it. If it started to lose condition, I would consider rugging and upping feed /hay.

 

[_GG_]

I do so wish I could find the photos and video of my elderly, thin-skinned, fully-clipped, 15/16ths TB rolling naked in the snow. He had a blast until the sun went in and he started to get chilly.

Maybe my shameless posting of Fly pics will do.

You can see by how much I am wearing how cold it was as I don't feel the cold very much, but Fly didn't care, she loved it. Fully clipped out and loved the snow...

And this is the rug she wore in the day in her stable when turnout was restricted. This was it, any more and she would get too hot. But you might see a Section D behing rugged up to the eyeballs and he would get really uncomfortable

 

[maccachic]

I do agree re canvas breathing more than synthetics. Personally I do not think we get that humid in New Zealand maybe the far North?

Im in the not clipping camp Id rather my horses get a bit sweaty for the small % of the day they are ridden than not being about to self regulate temperature. My TB (bit of a wuss) could hunt for 3 hrs with no ill effects and he could be a hard keeper when his diet wasn't kept simple.

 

[Tnavas]

I do agree re canvas breathing more than synthetics. Personally I do not think we get that humid in New Zealand maybe the far North?

Im in the not clipping camp Id rather my horses get a bit sweaty for the small % of the day they are ridden than not being about to self regulate temperature. My TB (bit of a wuss) could hunt for 3 hrs with no ill effects and he could be a hard keeper when his diet wasn't kept simple.

Waikato is humid - horribly so some days

 

[PolarSkye]

Note my first post above

1 - I said once you clip above the drip line - then YOU RUG, a belly or bib clip will be fine without one

2 - A trace clip will generally be fine in ONE RUG - preferably wool lined as this is a good fabric for warmth even when wet

3 - A full clip will need to be double rugged - with the canvas covers - I had additional wool under rugs to add warmth

Re you covers rubbing - the rugs DID NOT fit your horse! If I can manage to rug 32 school horses and ponies in a Christchurch winter and not have cover rubs then you should be able to find covers that fit too.

I had to try different makes and brands until I got ones that fitted.

These days people have horses rugged year round - whether in or out. I remember the stabled horses not wearing rugs in summer - even linen sheets as they got too hot but now it seems that every horse has to have a rug on.

Thankfully there are still some sensible people around who still allow their horse to use its coat as nature intended. Old horses or very thin skinned wussy TB might actually need one, there is no problem putting rugs on them but the majority don't.

Ask many of you why you rug your horse - answer because it keeps them cleaner!

Can I just ask - why the insistence that you know best? Haven't you heard people saying "it depends" . . . or do you really believe that the majority of horse owners in the UK are blind sheep who follow trends and don't have a clue how to look after their own horses?

Oh, and while SOME people may rug to keep their horses clean, not ALL of us do - and if said horse isn't uncomfortable in any way, what on earth is wrong with that? As it happens, Kal isn't rugged to keep him clean - if he was, I wouldn't spend a flipping fortune on stain removers in the summer (when he is unrugged) . . . and, here's the remarkable thing, I am not unique.

P

P.S. I honestly don't know why I got sucked into this argument - I swore a while ago that I wouldn't engage in any more pointless "to rug or not to rug" discussions . . . sigh . . .

 

[Dizzy socks]

Yes, poor old Rog (Kal's field companion, a shetland) - who has Cushings and is rather woolly anyway - had sweaty ears when I brought the boys in this morning. To be fair, he IS unfit (hasn't done a lick of work for a few years now - but he is a senior citizen and has earned it), but he wouldn't normally be sweating at this time of year.

P

Yep, it's horribly hot. Poor shetland has everyday ya for about the last week or so been very sweaty around the shoulders, and flanks. And this is her having decent field shelter, and spending most of the day in it.

 

[Queenbee]

If you clip, you rug.

Agree

 

[TGM]

Agree

What, with no exceptions?

 

[Moomin1]

How about simply running some electric tape around the hedgerows OP, then on the days you may need to rug there won't be an issue with rugs being wrecked?

Personally I treat a clipped horse the same as an unclipped. It depends on the weather on the day. If it's warm enough for my clipped mare to be out naked, she will be, or she'll be rugged accordingly.