Living with sycamore......

[L&M]

Hi all, I know this subject has been done to death, but bar picking them by hand, can anyone recommend how to remove the seed pods?

We own a 3 acre field, it was owned before sycamore poisoning came to the fore, and unfortunately is lined either side with at least 12 trees on each side. We have taken the largest down, but the other issue we have is that the field is adjacent to a footpath that is also lined with sycamore, so even if we remove every one of our trees, the pods still blow over.

They are currently on small patch with little grass as the only area we have managed to clear by hand, but no way we can remove all the other pods whilst working and other commitments. There are just too many, especially after the winds a few weeks ago that kindly dumped a load more on top of any areas we had started to clear. They are turned out no more than 6 hrs a day and fed hay in addition, and are in their teens so at least in the less at risk demographic.

We have tried several varieties of leaf vacumn, all of which work to a lesser extent, but due to the pods being partially embedded in the soil, miss as many as we collect. We have spent hours raking them up, but still not managing to remove enough to contain the risk - we are totally despondent and knackered by it all.

In the spring we do mow/collect the saplings which seems to work, so have decent summer grazing, but still means the majority of our land is unsafe in the autumn and through winter and early spring.

Bar selling up, putting the horses on livery (which we can't afford), or rehoming them, any advice on how to tackle the situation? It is so sad as always used to feel so lucky to have the horses at home, but now worry we are playing russian roulette with it all.......

 

[Burnttoast]

If you can take your trees down I would. Just cut, and manage any regrowth as a hedge - then you'll get fewer seeds (cut yearly a sycamore hedge won't fruit, so you'll only have seeds from the remaining trees) and still have the benefit of some shelter. Then I'd consider approaching the landowner next to you and explaining the situation. They may not love the trees (who loves a sycamore?) and allow you to manage those trees the same way. They may not, but you can only ask.

 

[Palindrome]

Could you remove the trees and plant a fast growing hedge along the side with the path to stop the pods coming in?

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

We had a sycamore over 100 years old, we had to chop it as the seeds were too many, now we just cut the shoots when we see them.

 

[ycbm]

It will cost a fortune to do anything with that number of big trees. Is this a case where it would be cost effective to test for hypoglycin in a good number of samples? I believe that if the trees don't have hypoglycin in them then they aren't dangerous.
.

 

[Fieldlife]

It will cost a fortune to do anything with that number of big trees. Is this a case where it would be cost effective to test for hypoglycin in a good number of samples? I believe that if the trees don't have hypoglycin in them then they aren't dangerous.
.

I think you need to test each tree, each year, as are no guarantees.

 

[Burnttoast]

It will cost a fortune to do anything with that number of big trees. Is this a case where it would be cost effective to test for hypoglycin in a good number of samples? I believe that if the trees don't have hypoglycin in them then they aren't dangerous.
.

What Fieldlife said, plus some trees can have some branches affected and not others. It's a complete lottery and the testing is expensive.

 

[ycbm]

What Fieldlife said, plus some trees can have some branches affected and not others. It's a complete lottery and the testing is expensive.

Not as expensive as lopping or felling!
.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Sheep! Ours hoover up the seeds and eat any shoots that do happen to make it through. Although our Sycamore is ear-marked for felling in Spring.

 

[canteron]

And sheep are brilliant at keeping the pasture worm free ...... let me know if you want sheep advice!!

 

[Burnttoast]

Not as expensive as lopping or felling!
.

You only have to fell once. Testing is too hit or miss to provide much reassurance. I think the current cost is about £90 a sample (can't remember tbh) so for 24 trees that's about 2 grand a year for a lack of certainty.

 

[cauda equina]

It's such a pity, sycamores are fine trees

At my previous house (20 years ago) there were loads of sycamores and very little grass. I hadn't heard of AM then and had no problems at all with any of the horses.
Does anyone know if or why the incidence has increased since then?

 

[L&M]

If you can take your trees down I would. Just cut, and manage any regrowth as a hedge - then you'll get fewer seeds (cut yearly a sycamore hedge won't fruit, so you'll only have seeds from the remaining trees) and still have the benefit of some shelter. Then I'd consider approaching the landowner next to you and explaining the situation. They may not love the trees (who loves a sycamore?) and allow you to manage those trees the same way. They may not, but you can only ask.

Thanks, unfortunately the footpath is owned by the local water authority, who won't take any action - we have asked several times.

 

[L&M]

It will cost a fortune to do anything with that number of big trees. Is this a case where it would be cost effective to test for hypoglycin in a good number of samples? I believe that if the trees don't have hypoglycin in them then they aren't dangerous.
.

Yes, we have tackled some ourselves but don't have the funds atm for hiring a tree surgeon for the other ones. I know it sounds silly but I also don't like cutting down trees, not withstanding the shade they provide in the summer.

We have considered testing, but as others have said the results can alter each year - there have been horses on this field for over 30yrs and not one has had an issue, but when you see the volume of pods this year, I find it hard to sleep at night worrying.

 

[L&M]

And sheep are brilliant at keeping the pasture worm free ...... let me know if you want sheep advice!!

As a matter of interest, how many sheep would we need to be beneficial? I do like that idea though!

 

[blitznbobs]

Poo hoover - stronger than a leaf hoover (and more expensive but works a charm) plus saves hours poo picking

https://www.trafalgarcleaningequipment.co.uk/more/paddock-cleaners/paddock-cleaner-vacuums

 

[HashRouge]

Poo hoover - stronger than a leaf hoover (and more expensive but works a charm) plus saves hours poo picking

https://www.trafalgarcleaningequipment.co.uk/more/paddock-cleaners/paddock-cleaner-vacuums

I know the OP is between a rock and a hard place here, but I hate to think of the impact these have on insects.

 

[meleeka]

I have a ride on lawn mower with a grass collector. It does pick the seeds up, but obviously not if they are trodden in the ground. Obviously it also relies on the grass being short.

 

[L&M]

Poo hoover - stronger than a leaf hoover (and more expensive but works a charm) plus saves hours poo picking

https://www.trafalgarcleaningequipment.co.uk/more/paddock-cleaners/paddock-cleaner-vacuums

if we could find a second hand one definitely something to consider - have used one specifically for sycamore and if so what model?

 

[cauda equina]

Someone should invent one - the Suckamore

 

[L&M]

Someone should invent one - the Suckamore

Totally agree, can see in my head the design and can just imagine a pitch on Dragons Den!

The problem with the hand held leaf vacumns is that the tubes are too wide - the suction is not targeted enough espescially if the pods have buried into the soil......waiting for a call back from Trafalgar about whether they thing the P 50 poo picker model might do the job, but also considering a 'billy goat' which I have been assured will suck up everything, including glass bottles and dog poo (if you so wish!).

Will report back.....

 

[suestowford]

I'd buy it. The Suckamore that is.
This year has been particularly bad, thanks to the drought we had last summer. All the trees have produced four or five times the number of seeds than usual. I'm still picking up sycamore seeds now although we've been stymied a few times by snow as you can't pick up what you can't see! I've nearly filled a dustbin with seeds. Most years we might get a bucket or two.

 

[Birker2020]

Poo hoover - stronger than a leaf hoover (and more expensive but works a charm) plus saves hours poo picking

https://www.trafalgarcleaningequipment.co.uk/more/paddock-cleaners/paddock-cleaner-vacuums

I wouldn't like it if we had mechanically removed droppings machinery as there is an increased risk in respect of EGS.
https://www.grasssickness.org.uk/re...f-equine-grass-sickness-on-affected-premises/

Premises that removed droppings mechanically were at a significantly increased risk of recurrence than those premises that did not remove droppings and those that removed droppings manually were actually less likely to suffer a recurrence of EGS (Figure 3). It is proposed that removing droppings mechanically, in particular by paddock sweepers, causes soil disturbance and contamination of grass with soil.

https://www.bhs.org.uk/horse-care-a...th/equine-diseases/equine-grass-sickness-egs/

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I wouldn't like it if we had mechanically removed droppings machinery as there is an increased risk in respect of EGS.
https://www.grasssickness.org.uk/re...f-equine-grass-sickness-on-affected-premises/

Premises that removed droppings mechanically were at a significantly increased risk of recurrence than those premises that did not remove droppings and those that removed droppings manually were actually less likely to suffer a recurrence of EGS (Figure 3). It is proposed that removing droppings mechanically, in particular by paddock sweepers, causes soil disturbance and contamination of grass with soil.

https://www.bhs.org.uk/horse-care-a...th/equine-diseases/equine-grass-sickness-egs/

View attachment 106748

I think that is usually the ones with brushes rather than the 'suck it up' kind

 

[Birker2020]

I think that is usually the ones with brushes rather than the 'suck it up' kind

Ahh my mistake sorry. I thought they all had a brushing mechanism for some reason.

 

[Nasicus]

Could it maybe be cheaper to pollard rather than fell? It would need doing again as it's not permanent, but maybe worth looking in to?

 

[canteron]

As a matter of interest, how many sheep would we need to be beneficial? I do like that idea though!

I have 5 - 4 girls and 1 boy. My worm
counts have been negligible since they arrived!

 

[blitznbobs]

if we could find a second hand one definitely something to consider - have used one specifically for sycamore and if so what model?

Yes i have and im not sure exactly which model it is but it is one of the towable ones and it doesnt swivel… its a very good piece of kit that gets used a lot during the summer

 

[paddy555]

I have a predator poo picker. That is similar to the Trafalgar. I tried the Trafalgar but found it to be too hard work because you are carrying the weight of the hose. The Predator range have a gantry that supports the hose
ie carries the weight so you can move it around almost one handed with a lot less effort.
Ours would definitely pick up sycamore seeds.

 

[PurBee]

It’s a tough situation. Depending on how much i liked my home, would determine if i’d just sell-up.

I’d personally want to get rid of all the trees to avoid the worry, hassle and potential risk they pose to grazers.

But, one thing worth trying before felling all your own trees, or selling-up, is approaching your local council agri department,( bypassing the water dept.) - alerting them to the path trees blowing the seeds all over your grazing pasture. There’s many laws that all landowners have to adhere to, and toxic trees may fall under noxious plants and weeds additional laws. These noxious plant laws are there to prevent risk of spread and subsequent toxicity to the many thousands of acres of land used by the meat industry grazing animals.

With a well-worded appeal claim regarding the sycamores to the agri dept, who will no doubt express more understanding than the water authorities, you might get your specific case looked into and action taken.
I’d certainly give that a major focus and scroll through the endless agri laws citing which ‘safety from toxins’ agri laws i could throw their way, to back-up my request the trees be felled.

Sycamore-lined properties was a ‘fashion’ that has become a scourge for anyone wanting safe grazing premises!

If finances are tight, you could pay a tree surgeon to literally fell and block-chop the sections and leave them stacked at the side of the field. My brother’s a tree surgeon and most of their time is taken clearing-up the tree, chipping small branches, blowing the mess and clearing that. It’s relatively fast for them to down a tree of average size, especially if they have a clear-fell region of the space of a field. If you told them your situation and ask for a quote to fell and chop it all into 6-8foot lengths, stack at the side of field, it would be cheaper than a full fell and clear whole tree quote.
Maybe ask if you had burley mates organised to help move the long lengths of logs, if that would be ok and reduce the cost.
You can then work slower in your own time after theyre all felled on logging the lengths, or growing mushrooms…?
A tree surgeon is far faster at felling than a lay-man, and you‘ll be surprised how fast they can down multiple trees.

As a subcontractor myself, i had clients tell me money is tight and ask how i could do the job the cheapest for them. I was very amenable to working a different method to reduce my time, while still achieving the aim of the job.

Like you, i dont like taking down a tree, but will seriously consider taking out all toxic trees on premises with grazing land so the premises can be used by anyone else in the future to graze any animal.

As mentioned you could replant in the place of your sycamores fast-growing willow, and mix it up with some birch saplings, ash saplings , safe trees etc. plant a hedge of safe willow and that will be 10 foot high in 3yrs with enough water.

Last winter i bought a back-pack leaf blower - its a stihl model, got it 2nd hand from local advert and its brilliant! It blasts everything out of grass. Wet leaves that are buried, gravel, it would easily do sycamore seeds….it’s got a @200mph+ wind speed at full revs and will even move stones big enough to fit in my hand. The backpack blowers are far more powerful than handheld.
The closer you have the nozel to the ground the more powerful force is blowed at the soil. So you move along in a forward shuffle sweeping-action, with the nozzle 1 foot above the ground, a bit like metal detecting or using a scythe to cut grass - that method gets every inch blasted and blown forward.
The backpack can even blow forward big heavy piles of leaves collected in a row. Its so powerful it spins me around in a circle if i loosen my body posture and pull the trigger! ? (gotta have fun while out there doing these chores!)
3 acres would take me 3 days - you might find you can hire backpack blowers from tool hire companies as theyre quite expensive to buy new.

Just be mindful when using blowing equipment on grazing that if you are doing a close to the grass/soil blast job - you’re likely to blow soil particles/mud onto the growing grass the grazers eat, which increases risk of potential soil bacteria ingestion, so it’s best to do a deep blast session before forecast rain. A good rainy day will pour enough water onto the grass and wash it clean.
If you do a gentler blower job of surface leaves you’re less likely to disturb soil.

I feel for you, i’ve had to do major works to improve my grazing, spent thousands over the years, but it’s worth it for better quality safe grazing for all animals.

If all the above fills you with dread, and you fancy a move, and can afford a house with land in a location you’d like, i’d also seriously consider moving! (I did years ago but the recession prevented house sale for a like for like property, i even had the horses out on loan with view to buy, but that went sour, got horses back unexpectantly and so i stayed and persevered!)