Loading - a battle of wills...or time to call it a day?

Noodlejaffa

Noodlejaffa

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www.ailsamactaggart.co.uk
I have a very intelligent gelding who I've owned for 3 years and event. He has, shall we say, a big personality and an even bigger ego.

Now, never had any issues with him loading until one day in September he just decided he didn't want to go in (he had watched his young field mate plant herself on the ramp and seems to have cottoned on to the idea). I consequently missed the competition having spent two hours trying to load him - only to succeed by putting another horse in first, then he went straight in.

If I'm going to a competition, I have to give him his breakfast in the lorry - he goes straight in without batting an eyelid. However, try and load him at home any other time of the day and he's just becoming a pig. Have tried coaxing, lunge line, control head collar, brush, tickle round the ankles, you name it..and he just looks at me to say - Ha, you can't make me! He is the most infuriating animal and I know he's not scared - just being clever (or thinks he is). It is a complete battle of wills. I try and remain calm because I know shouting and screaming is not going to achieve anything (apart from giving my horse some satisfaction!)

He's fine at competitions as he knows he's going home and he travels really well. But I'm now thinking crazy thoughts - like should I sell him, am I no longer able to cope with him (my confidence is fairly dented at the moment as it is). I'm at the stage of dreading going anywhere with him - haven't even had a lesson for months (used to have them weekly) as I can't face the battle :-(

Does anyone have any suggestions? I am seriously at the point of giving up.
 
i watched a really interesting thing on loading on the H&C channel the otherday. It was with monty roberts and usually im a total sceptic but when they were doing worked. Dont no if you could find it on there website if not i will jot down what they did for you!
 
Is he travelling OK once you get him on, as advice for a bad loader (who messes just for the hell of it and travels perfectly) would be different from that for a bad loader (because he doesn't like travelling).

Have you a 'funnel like' loading area you can use to keep horse straight so you can concentrate on making him go forward up the ramp??

I wouldn't sell him just yet, but might look into getting one of the NH people to look at the problem.
Fiona
 
Ahh i understand ur pain i have a big chestnut mare with a big ego lol
we had this problem last year she has allways travelled badly so i feel a bit like she has a reason tho she is a monster ;)

i spent an hour once trying to get her to box so i could go for a sj lesson she wasted all her energy being a prat on the ramp, so i popped a chain on her threded thru one side of her head collat and clipped onto the other side a bit like a curb chain i suppose, it works on a pressure being relised wen the horse walks forward

and it does work she is trotting up the ramp now, might not be everyones cup of tea but i swear by it, it hasnt let me down : )
 
Poor you :( I don't have any magic solutions, hopefully other people will come up with lots of helpful ideas. I just wanted to say that I know exactly what you mean about horses suddenly getting a new idea and running rings round you. Years ago I had a horse, in a fairly busy yard, that suddenly decided he didn't want to let me put the headpiece over his ears. He wasn't young, he was an established event horse, he wasn't in pain, he wasn't frightened, he just suddenly realised he could :mad: I'm 5'2" he was 16 hands - get the picture?? It maddened me but the crosser I got the worse he was - only way I could get the bridle on him was using a stool and loads of polos and doing one ear then moving (with stool) round to the other side and doing the other one :mad: :mad: :mad:

Once I'd developed a coping strategy I just had to use it every day with him over a period of weeks (months? Can't remember...) and gradually he forgot his little game and went back to normal. But it goes to show that it does happen, they can make fools out of us, even those of us who think we know what we're doing, but - and this is the good bit - they do come through it in the end. Best of luck and chin up!
 
Save up and get Richard Maxwell out, he really is worth the money and you have to do the homework which also boosts your confidence in you and your horse.
Haven't used him for loading but have had lessons for other stuff.
 
Have you tried a chifney on him? I had a horse that was exactly like yours, not scared, just knew he didn't have to go in. The chifney worked a treat, and in the end as soon as you put it on him he just walked straight in.

I have a friend's mare at my yard at the moment and she decided she wasn't going to go in my trailer, and wouldn't even look at the ramp, she just kept swinging her backside round and facing the other way. So I put the chifney on her and made her look where she was going and she went more or less straight in. Might be worth a go.
 
My mare did this when I brought her, and it drove me crazy, I brought the Richard maxwell halter, which comes with a DVD, did the ground work as recomended, and then just kept loading her, she was a stroppy moo and went over backwards twice, but we just carried on, i learnt I had to be really quiet and consistant and not take her rubbish, she now loads like a dream (in the halter, not that I even pull on it but without it she is a cow again- clever pony) so it is possible to sort it out!

Good luck
 
If he loads for food, what happens if you give him no food at all on the day you want him to load and present him with his bucket in the lorry when you want to get going?

Another idea is this, but it is tough to describe on paper. My old instructor did this for my old horse who was also taking the p&^% and he loaded in 5 minutes. It took her 30 minutes to talk me through how to do it properly, so I am not sure I can explain it well but here goes: position yourself to the side of the horse almost as if you were lunging, take a dressage whip and hold it the wrong way (i.e. hold it by the thin bit at the end, touch the horse with the handle bit), stand the horse a few steps away from the ramp, you may need to use a bridle or similar to make sure the horse does not barge into you, rear or turn away and say "walk on". If he walks use the whip to scratch him on the neck as praise, one step is sufficient for praise. If he does not walk on, tap him very gently on his back end but keep tapping him. Make the tapping rhythmical, tap, tap, tap, and make each tap slightly harder than the previous one (very important that the first tape is barely a touch and you increase the severity by tiny increments). As soon as he walks forward one step, stop tapping and stroke/scratch him with the whip on the neck to make sure he is not scared of the whip. Repeat for another step. You may find that after the first 2-3 steps, he just walks in all the way. Once I did it right, my horse walked in that day and every day after that.

It's odd that it works, but it does work very well. Something about the increasing severity of the taps makes the horse think "oh my god this could get really bad" without you having to give the horse a real bashing (which is not a pleasant thing to do and is not my style anyway!).
 
will probably get hugely slated but here goes.........Star has always been a bit sticky to load but would usually go on after 10/15 minutes moving him side to side and not letting him just stand still. however he too took to planting half way up the ramp and made it really hard work to coax him on (tried EVERYTHING incl getting mean, and it just made him worse).

he would travel perfectly once on, and was cool as a cucumber at the other end, so in desperation i tried blindfolding him with a folded towel................works a charm every single time-he walks to bottom of ramp and plants, i wiggle him side to side until he's got at least one front foot on, so he knows where the edge of the ramp is, then i wrap towel round his face, tuck ends under headcollar, one gentle tug and he wanders straight on! i pull the towel down his face so he can see the gap between ramp and lorry floor once he's got all four feet walking up ramp-so takes quick timing.

he's not stressed out and doesnt shy away from/pull away from the towel.

this also worked for another planter that liveried at mine for a bit.

worth a shot?
 
We always park next to a fence or a wall it then helps no end with them only being able to escape one way. My mother swears by a yard broom tickling their hocks. I saw a method which someone used where they had bailer twine and it looked a bit like a lasso. They put the loop bit round the horses backside and ran the long bit to them leading the horse and would tug it in short sharp bursts. The horse knew no one was behind it but could not understand where the pressure was coming from so gave in. It was cool to watch and ideal if you are on your own.
 
Both my horses went in my old lorry (the white one you have seen) no problem at all, but with the new one onyx (the black one) will only ever load in it first!! Which is a pain if his class is first but i have learnt that it is less hassle if i just do it his way which i know is not much help!
As for confidence mine is the same with topaz (after he broke my elbow he has dumped me at every comp we have been to!) to the point where now i am thinking of getting rid of him (although catch 22 as don't think i would get what i wanted due to him being eliminated at the last 3 outings!!). I have been going to Gleneagles twice a month, once a fortnight on one of the school horses (who cannot be faulted at all, getting to ride 3*** eventers etc) and the other lesson on topaz. Its not cheap and i know its far for you but i think its worth it and the instructors there are FAB!
If you wanted you could always share the car or lorry with me from mine to minimise the journey offer is there :)
 
Most people won't like this but my old RI showed me a trick that works - if C plants (it's a rare occurance), get someone to stand behind him and throw tiny pebbles at his bum - this has worked every time - he doesn't stress but ust steps into the trailer to get away from them.

As I say I rarely have to use it as he normally self loads but I find it works every time.

Hopefully you can get it sorted!
 
I know this wouldn't be a lot of people's preferred solution but it worked for me so here goes...

...Murphy used to plant his feet, mess around, come sideways off the ramp etc...not scared, rather enjoyed travelling, just being a pain in the backside. One day, after dithering about planting his feet etc he came sideways off the side of the ramp, pushing me towards a road. I had the whip in my hand and gave him a serious - and I mean serious - wallop. I now load him with a schooling whip in my hand and he trots up the ramp first time every time.

In addition to the whip business, I discovered that Murphy, being a rather pig-headed, stubborn, know-it-all, likes to load himself and if I am in the way (i.e., leading him) he is much less likely to go on. So I walk briskly up to the ramp, let go (ensuring no ropes are dangling or could get caught), and in he goes. Someone at the front then sorts him out while I do the back bar but this could easily be a one-man job as he'd just wait for me to come round and tie him up. I know this loading himself business sounds really stupid but it seems to make a massive difference, so maybe worth a try.

Safe to say, we have come to an agreement. He can do it his way, if he goes straight in and doesn't mess me about.
 
If a horse doesn't want to load, there's usually a reason - i.e. usually the travelling experience or what they will do when they get there isn't as pleasant as whatever you will do to try and make them load. Solution usually is to get them in (however works for you), and give them a wonderful journey, wonderful fun experience at the other end, then home. You then just have to keep up the good journey, good experience and you're fine. If he wants another horse to travel with - is he getting enough turnout time with other horses at home? Is he getting particularly attached to another horse and having separation problems?
 
My old mare Jenny would never load & as we competed a lot, I had to hack her *everywhere* which was quite hairy as she was also bad in traffic...

Anyway, when she was 26, we parked the lorry in the field next to the fence, put a v heavy iron fence on wheels thing on the other side of the ramp, & after about 10 mins, she gave up & loaded. She has loaded ever since, & now at the age of 37 is teaching Trev the racer how to stand nicely on the lorry.

She is living in hope that someone will take her to a comp...which might actually happen cos I'm not sure that Trev will travel without her. Yay, loud hairy decrepit yak at BS & BD...
 
when I saw the Monty Roberts demo last year, Kelly Marks said they were always looking for bad loaders.. Its the bread and butter of their business so they need the practise! No cost to you but you have to take them to their place..maybe worth investigating
 
Clicker training... works everytime but does require a lot of patience and ground work. If he's bright and loaded a lot before it shouldn't take too long. I use a pressure halter with a long rope (old fashioned rope halter but i'm sure the monty roberts ones etc all do the same job). You want the rope long so he can back up off the ramp without you flying down after him hanging on to his head!

Get a pocketfull of treats (you'll need a lot!) and a clicker - keep the clicker in your hand all the time.The theory is as the horse steps forward with a little pressure on the halter, click, treat and because he has come forward he takes the pressure off the halter himself. Don't keep pulling on the halter, that's not the point! Everytime he takes a step, even a half one, repeat the click, treat, and release. You don't have to leave a big gap between, but might want to leave time for him to figure out that he is, effectively, rewarding himself. Don't get annoyed, get the stick out, or build a pen, this is about him teaching himself what you want and what his reward is. If he takes a few steps together just click and treat as normal. If he goes back ignore it and start stepping forward step by step each time. Unlike beating them in, or penning them in, they should get quicker and quicker each time as it's a postive experience. Do it regularly to re-inforce the message.

Some people like to teach the click/ reward association away from the lorry/ trailer first, so just for a walk on/ stand/ back etc - i.e. something he knows. As long as you are quick with your reward after every click (at most 3 seconds - aim for less) he will learn without this step though - up to you whether you do it or not.

You need to practice this at home, it's taken me 2 hours to get a known "won't load" horse in using this method before - you cannot rush it so don't take him anywhere till you're confident he'll go in!

You do need to make sure being driven isn't scary for him too tho...i know a few good loaders who've been put off by bad driving!!
 
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Have you tried and failed?.... eg have you spent hours trying to get him in and then give up? If so I think this is your biggest problem not so much the loading. Once a horse has 'won' the battle it becomes twice as hard for you to overcome next time (I'm sure you didn't need reminding of that!) I would set up the trailer/lorry in a safe funnel, get helpers, food, lunge lines, brushes, buckets of feed, pressure headcollars etc all the help you need and settle yourselves in for the duration. If you aren't going anywhere then you won't get stressed and so remaining calm will be much easier.

Just persevere if you have to be at it for hours just do it till he loads then bring him out and load him immediately again, keep going until the resistance time from him gets less and less. I know it sounds boring but it needs to be done. The after having loaded him 5 or 6 times walking straight in no hesitation and lots of praise when in, turn him out. The next day repeat, and the next and the next and the next. Do it for 2 weeks if you have to, just to get the calm and consistent message accross to him that if you ask he must load.

I think once he has been to the 'I'm bored I'm gonna give up they obvisouly aren;t gonn crack' point then you will be almost 100% there with cracking the issue

Good luck and be patient I know it's hard with these infuriating little quirks they have! :)
 
Get a chifney on him walk round the trailer if he pi--es about sharp yank on chain dont let him the the p--s if yu have a partition in try taking it out be sharp with him but fair good luck .
 
Thanks for all the advice!

I have never given up on loading him - so have never let him get away with not loading, even if it does take forever.

He is an excellent traveller - never stressed, happily pops in and out of the lorry at competitions. We also don't put him in the lorry just to go to competitions - we go to do fun things too - social things, etc so it's not just a means of taking him somewhere to do hard work!

Companion wise - he's turned out at least 7 hours a day with a few other horses for company. He's always had a mix of travelling in company and by himself and never any problem. Not particularly attatched to any one horse - and travels fine with whoever's with him.

I shall try and come up with a master plan, but he is so good at out foxing me.
 
I would buy a dually halter, which comes with a DVD

Even if you hate the whole idea of natural horsemanship, they have got loading down to a fine art

Basically you need a good pressure and release headcollar, and you send them back a lot, which is the opposite of normal. Also never look at them loading, as this blocks them from wanting to go on!
 
If he plants you need to get him to move his shoulders then his quaters- achieve this in anyway you can even if it doesn't look pretty, I would use a be nice halter too as they give you some extra pull but you must know when to pull and when to allow.
Also make sure the lorry is parked up against a wall or what really worked for us is back it up to the arena gateway so if they do mess about you have no fear of them slipping.
Another thing that works is shaking a bin liner or carrier bag up behind them.
 
Millie used to be a proper mare to load in the trailer- she was perfect as a youngster and then one day decided she just wouldn't go in.

any sort of attempt to force/chase her in ends with her reversing at high speed and you end up further away from the trailer than you started!

first thing we did was take the partition out so i didn't have such a tight space to aim her at.

second thing was a Richard Maxwell headcollar and we did some work on backing up, moving sideways and really getting her pressure and release spot on.

next thing was to have a quick pressure and release game then go straight to the ramp- i walk up the ramp, through the trailer and to the front ramp (on a lunge line).

for some reason she wouldn't load if i was at the back of the trailer? so this was how we used to do it with me standing on the front ramp!

worked really well and she now walks up about 1 stride behind me.
 
Richard Maxwell - Unlock Your Horse's Talent in 20 mins a day. (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Unlock-Your...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276019709&sr=8-2)

It's not a "quick fix" but spending time doing the ground work exercises he writes about really help with loading. He also has a forum that he sometimes posts on. He was at Ingliston at the start of May and watching him in person gave me a whole new understanding that I didn't quite grasp from his books. Things are underway to book for him to come back to do loads more lessons/clinics etc so if it's something you might be interested in drop me an email and I'll add your name to the list.

Having had a big grey bl00dy minded so and so I feel your pain! Mine would walk straight on no worries and then just not go near it other times. He even took to flinging himself on the floor and cutting his leg open under his boot. He wasn't scared and once he was on stood like a lamb and travelled like a dream. His was just a case of he would (not) because he could and being 17hh or bad attitude it wasn't really an equal playing field! I gave up on the boxing and done quite a bit of ground work and slowly that helped. I wish there was a miracle cure/fix all but I think RM is the closest thing. Good luck
 
My gelding was exactly the same. Thing is he was so unpredictable, he would loan within half an hour (seems ages, but with him it was a very short period of time!) but at the other end trying to load him coming home we could be u to 4 hours!! He was not at all scared, merely very very stubborn. He would stand with two feet on the ramp for literally half an hour refusing to move and would then just rear up and back off it. We tried everything, and that is NO exaggeration - paid alot of money to have people come out to try to sort him and nothing worked.

Until we came across a commanche headcollar. The ONLY thing that works - total godsend :)
 
I had a similar problem when our mare after travelling perfectly decided she wasnt going to anymore. It could take anything from 5 minutes on a good day to 1hr on a bad. This was coupled with the fact she wouldnt always load on the way home. You just had to hope for the best and we did on many occasions have to accept lifts home in a box when she would load perfectly - we only had a trailer. We had bought from her previous owner/breeder who had always travelled by fab horsebox. We used to laugh that the mare had champagne taste and we had beer money. Unfortunately for her our travelling accommodation isnt going to change for many many years.

A friend saw us out at a comp trying desperately to get her to load with lots of coaxing and pony nuts/bucket combo - she loves her food - to no avail. Friend asked if we had ever used a Richard Maxwell halter. We hadnt but luckily she had one in her car (she carried it everywhere apparently lol and offered to give it a try. Friend said that although the mare wouldnt like she would load once she realised it just wasnt worth fighting against it. After putting in a good fight and going over once :-( she loaded within 5 mins. I immediately ordered a halter which came with a dvd and next time she loaded a treat. She has loaded well ever since with only a few indiscretions, although I do always carry the halter with me just in case. As soon as its on she knows she isnt going to win!

I have also helped out others when they have had problems and it has never failed.

Good luck x
 
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