Loading Issue

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graciemoo

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When I 1st got Buddy, he loaded like a dream, walked straight onto a box (both herringbone and rear facing - never used a trailer).

At my last competition, he was loaded between Dressage and SJ - no problem. The guy that was driving me, phoned me to say I would have to come back to box as he had gone mental. When I got there he was quiet and calm, and eating his hay...
When I came to load when finished, he wouldn't get on. After 15mins or so, I snapped a carrot, while a friend led him on, and on he got - taking the P I thought, and never thought anything of it.

The next time I went out with him, he was cautious of the ramp, but I just stood and waited and he walked in the box after about 5mins. However on the way home, he did the same, but started to back up, and then wouldnt walk forward. We tried plastic bags shaken behind him, plastic light bulb poles boxes, chaps, wellies, but he isn't spooky so just stood and looked. We put a chifney on, as he does rear, but didn't really feel we needed to use it most of the time.
It took 2.5hours to get him on.
In the end he back right up, and then someone got him moving forward and threw a bucket (plastic light weight feed bucket - tub trug). I got him on the middle of his tail, above all his leg tendons and below his spine, and it really wasn't thrown hard (before I get shot down). Anyway, it made him jump, and trotted, and before he knew where he was, he was on the box...where he got a bit of chaff and carrots, and left over treats we had been using.

He travels like a dream, you dont hear a peep out of him, driver said you cant even feel him bracing on corners, braking etc...
He doesn't sweat up, or stamp or kick. So I don't think it is that which he is nervous of.
I think probably something that has happen before I had him has been reminded to him when I was at the competition - transporter is old fashioned horseman, if you know what I mean....

But regardless, what can I do to help with the problem, baring in mind I don't have my own wagon, and no one has been forth coming with offering to lower their ramps for me to practice...even though he doesn't become destructive (like he wouldnt damage their ramp/wagons at all).
 
Difficult as you don't have your own transport to use in between comps. However I wouldn't recommend throwing things at him (no matter how light weight they are) to get him on. He is just going to associate the box with that and could get to the point where he won't even go near a box.
Maybe you could offer someone on your yard a fiver for them to drop the ramp for you to practise. Patience is the key and when he's on loads of oraise and rewards. Take him right back to square one.
 
maybe practise walking him in hand -so he is actually walking forwards actively. I found this worked wonders with mine - sometimes whne you are walking them round they are lagging a bit behind which then makes it easy for them to start messing about..
 
Don't get me wrong, I do NOT want the bucket to EVER happen again, nor the spooky items.

I just want him to be how he was when I got him - loaded fine.

Will try asking about the £5 thing - may work, just feel a bit cheeky asking.
 
Most horsey people are happy to help if you are having problems. If it just a case of dropping their ramp for you it won't inconvenience them too much. Just make sure you clear up after you are done. Good luck!!
 
Never had any loading issues since I bought a dually headcollar (monty roberts) & did the excercises in Kelly marks book "perfect manners". I am not a NH fanatic, & don't do Parelli (which I consider to be a rip off as it costs an absolute fortune) or circus tricks or similar. I am just a normal rider, but I like to make life easy for myself and this is just really useful stuff. I started this with my previous mare who was rather "challenging". The problems were more ridden as she used to rear, spin & run backwards. But it would also take me 10-15 mins to load her which I found frustrating. I noticed how the work on the ground really improved the loading as well, as she started walking straight on without a battle, athough that had not been the major reason for doing it. I sold the mare last year and soon afterwards had a call from new owner begging for help as they had spent 3 hours trying to load her at a show. I had her on the box within 5 mins (to gasps from new owner & onlookers). Now have bought a new youngster & have done the exercises with her, as I will any horse from now on as it prevents problems arising. She always loads 1st time, despite being quite a nervous traveller. When I walk into her stable she takes a step back and waits for me to put the headcollar on & lead her away - it does what it says on the tin basically, you will have a horse that is incredibly polite & easy to deal with, like having power steering on a car you will never go back once you have a horse that has been trained in this way. It does not take long, maybe 10 mins a day for a week to get the basics sorted.
 
I agree with busywithhorses. Dually halter will solve it.

When I collected my now 3yo it took us 2 hours to gently persuade him into the trailer. After a couple of weeks of halter work I had him in the trailer within 10 minutes & he walks straight in now even at exciting shows!

With the dually halter the process basically to back them up if they stop moving forwards. They rapidly getting sick of walking backwards & will choose to walk forward with you.

It sounds like your horse may have scared itself - maybe he caught his headcollar on something? I'm sure you can restore his confidence though.
 
I had similar problems after my daughter's horse, a 5yr old Warmblood so not that easy to shift if she doesnt want to.

After loading perfectly when we got her decided she didnt want to load anymore. She certainly wasnt scared of travelling and once in was perfectly behaved.

After many, many frustrating times of her not loading, although she would go in a box. She obviously has champagne taste whilst I have beer money funding! a friend saw her at an event not budging and asked if I had ever tried a Richard Maxwell halter. Luckily she had one in her car so on it went. She did object at first and after a bit of a battle (she went up at one point and really wasnt pleased) she realised she wasnt going to win and walked straight in. She has loaded with the halter ever since.

I have helped load a few stubborn ponies with the halter too with grateful thanks from tired owners just wanted to get home.

I havent tried a Dually halter which does seem a bit kinder so I cant vouch for that but I can highly recommend it the Maxwell. It is expensive (£32) for what it is (just a rope headcollar) but you do get a CD on how to use it and its worked for me.
 
I am REALLY grateful for all your suggestions, but how does a Dually work? I know it has the extra noseband piece that tightens, but we have tried this with Buddy before using the leadrope round his nose, and how does it differ from the effects a Chifney has?
No dismissing, just no experience with one.

Also, How and what does the Richard Maxwell headcollar do? And how is it any different to the usual rope headcollars?
Again, just no experience with it.

I guess I am still quite negative about getting over this issue as we have tried bridle and chifney, and both took time...
 
The Richard Maxwell puts pressure on the poll. The harder they pull against it the tighter it goes. If they pull against you it tightens (you have to stand firm), if they walk forward you release the hold as a reward. They soon learn resist and its not nice, accept and its more pleasant.

As I have said above, I have not used the Dually which I have seen demonstrated by Kelly Marks and it did work on a very stubborn, opinionated mare but for me the Maxwell worked literally within 2 minutes and she has yielded without hesitation since. The stubborn, opinionated mare had had 20 mins worth of demonstration before she went in.

The Dually seems to put pressure around the nose area (sorry if I am incorrect, its been 3 months since I saw the demonstration) and the Maxwell is more poll pressure.

Basically the Dually is a halter with nose pressure the Maxwell is rope and poll pressure.
 
Like the Dually comes with a DVD of how best used, does the Richard Maxwell one?

Also, where can I get one?

Edited: Ive just been on Richard Maxwell website, there are 2 different halters, training halter (with DVD) and horsemans halter (braid on braid marine rope) - which is the right one?
 
I bought my Maxwell one from here (with CD)

http://www.richard-maxwell.com/merchandise.html

It came within a couple of days.

The BeNice headcollars are a little like the Maxwell only a bit nicer. Maxwell is really just rope whereas the BeNice is a softer material but still rope like in structure and also works with poll pressure.

My mare wouldnt load in a BeNice, although we did use one when bringing in and turning out when we first bought her as she was a little bargy and a sharp tug used to bring her back in line. We now use a normal headcollar so it did work but like I said she wouldnt load with one.
 
Its the training halter that I have (£30 plus p&p)

I never bothered buying a rope to go with it and just use a normal lead rein.
 
it sounds as if he has lost confidence, and so the only way to get it back is time and patience. ask someone nicely if you can use their box with ramp down (promise to pay for any damage he might do!) and then spend as long as it takes (and it took me a whole weekend with 1 of mine, similar scenario, went from fine to worried, to 'no way') coaxing him in and out. i sat there happily reading a book with my girl on a long line until she got bored enough to pluck up the courage to join me in the box and eat her tea.
positioning the box so that the ramp is shallower (or, ideally, level) really helps too.
even if you have to pay someone £50 to use their lorry for a weekend, it has to be worth it to get over the hassle of having a bad loader in future...
btw, parelli halters etc did not convince my mare, just gave her something else to get stressy about. the answer was time and patience and kindness, not adding to her worry at all.
 
I have asked a girl on the yard - and she said i can lower the ramp no problem - just the space inside isnt massive, but he is fine once he is in.

I am going to do a week or so of groundwork before i even try him on a ramp to get him to trust me a bit more, and so i can read him better. Will be doing that in the different headcollar so he gets used to it.
 
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