Loading issues - frustration

[Sugar Plum]

No hate please, this is a genuine issue. There are no health issues that influence this.
I have a horse who is very adamant that he will not load on occasions. I have had two specialists with different ways of loading, one confrontational (considered not a good fit) and one working ever so calmly until horse loads quite willingly. I have continued with this path but it is becoming very frustrating because if horse doesn't want to load, he won't. Being nice only goes so far when horse is rearing and pulling away at the slightest touch / pull on the lead (this is only in extreme circumstance when trying to load coming home).
I really don't want to engage a third person, because at this point I feel the issue sits squarely with the horse. It makes no difference loading if he is travelling alone or with a partner. I do practice loading several times a month and apart from a minor hesitation on the first load he bounces on and off, I assume because he knows these practices do not result in him going anywhere. I have tried loading and driving around the block, unloading and reloading which is fine.
I am just at my wits end. I know we all think we can load someone else's horse, but this is definitely not the case with this guy, it will only make it worse.
Just a moan really as I do not see light at the end of the tunnel at the moment. I have done everything possible to try and make loading and going somewhere as nice an experience as possible. I had a light and airy forward facing trailer, thought that may be the issue so bought a light and airy rear facing horsebox - no difference.

 

[Polos Mum]

I'd get the second person you had help back and see if they can help find something that lasts

If it is only some times - there will be some reason (just not one that you have spotted yet) they don't usually just do things to annoy you randomly

 

[Orangina]

Did you end up using Michael Peace?

 

[AWinter]

If the horse is bad to load to come home I think you’ll find a pain/discomfort issue, as he is fatigued by this point.

I would employ a behaviourist who will use positive reinforcement and be able to help you assess the behaviour properly rather than just trying to coerce him on. He knows how to load he just doesn’t want to so you need to figure out why.

If you let me know what area you’re in I can probably recommend someone.

 

[Cortez]

Presumably he does always load eventually, or do you have to ride home? I’ve never failed to load a horse (so far, but that does encompass 50+ years) and have a few tricks to accomplish that, but find that consistency and never giving up mean that over time they will just get used to loading without drama.

 

[Sugar Plum]

Did you end up using Michael Peace?

Yes I did, that was the second reference. Whilst it really works when my horse 'wants' to get on, when he doesn't it is the same as asking a wall to move

 

[Sugar Plum]

Presumably he does always load eventually, or do you have to ride home? I’ve never failed to load a horse (so far, but that does encompass 50+ years) and have a few tricks to accomplish that, but find that consistency and never giving up mean that over time they will just get used to loading without drama.

On three occasions I have had to resort to force which I am not comfortable with as it takes us back to square one. The worst was two hours. I don't have an option of riding home as where I go is too far

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I knew someone locally who had a stable at their home where they put their horse in overnight, but no pasture, so what they'd do is load horse up every single morning and take him about a mile down to his field (past us). He'd then be in the field all day, and then they'd catch him up and load him up in the evening to go back up the road to be stabled overnight.

He'd load fine, both ways. No problems. Not ever.

Then they took the bloomin' thing to a show; it refused blankly apparently to go into the trailer at the end of the day. Took them ages to load it, it just wasn't having it.

Horses are sometimes just weird. You just can't fathom 'em.

 

[maya2008]

So you have to ask yourself why he does not want to load to come home. You know it’s not fear of the box, or poor driving, because he loads to go out and he loads to go round the block. So, there is a reason he does not want to load on the way home. He anticipates the journey home being uncomfortable for some reason.

- Can you track what you’ve been doing when he does load on the return journey and when he doesn’t?
- How thorough has your vet work up been? Minor signs of arthritis for example might only be seen on x-ray and might only cause pain after strenuous exercise.
- Equally, fitness. My TB, when we went xc occasionally, loved it but was tired by the end and didn’t want to load for the journey home. Gave her a break then she was fine to load. With repeated trips out and increasing fitness, she stopped needing a rest before loading.

 

[SEL]

I used Michael recently and it sounds like we have the same issue.

My young cob will load at home and if we do practice drive outs I have very little issue loading him on and off the lorry in another location.

But if he's tired then he is very much the toddler who wants to crash out on the back seat of the car with his favourite teddy bear - he does not want to balance in the lorry for X amount of time when he has spent 2 hours at a clinic. I'm hoping that will change as he gets stronger but I think he will always have that streak of 'I don't want to' in him.

Where Michael was particularly valuable for me was teaching me how to deal with the strop. I now load with a lunge rope so any pulling away, or going round to the side of the ramp doesn't dislodge me from where I'm standing. I was also inadvertently blocking him so I'm more conscious of my body language and where I stand. I've also made it my mission since Michael came to go out at least once a week to a clinic hire or farm ride where I know he will be tired and grumpy at the thought of travelling home and then practising loading on and off the lorry in a safe place where I'm under no pressure to hurry up. Piece of carrot for reward every time he gets on.

I've also had more ventilation put in the lorry because I think it became an issue last summer where he was tired and hot travelling home.

But the one I thing I learnt from having Michael out is there isn't a quick fix and I need to keep working on it every week. I arena hire at a lovely yard where the lorry park is quiet. I've been to dressage and clinics there and he's taken me an hour to load coming home, so I'm now going there at least once a week to use their arena and then use their lorry park to practice the homeward bound loading. Even if it takes an hour to load, he is still being offloaded again until he's walking on quietly.

 

[Oneday]

Had two bad loaders, they just saw it as a good game. Only way to get them allow lots of time, stand on the ramp with them at the bottom and ignore stamping on ramp, playing with breaching straps and wait for them to get bored and decide to walk into trailer.
Was a problem at the show as lots of people offering to help, but just politely declined. One person actually passed again as one lost interest and walked in and commented didn't think you would get him in.
Both were really good travellers, just with warped sense of humour.

 

[Barklands]

Long rope and pressure and release technique. Using rope headcollar, release pressure as soon as takes one step forward. The key is to reward each step and just ask for one step at a time. If they have a paddy and run backwards ignore and let the long rope take the slack then gently ask for one step forward. Once on take straight off and go in and out until it becomes boring. Has worked every time for me including with rearers and one that took three hours to load and had to be sedated by vet before horse came to me. Now loads first time every time and only needed one session to sort out.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

If the horse is bad to load to come home I think you’ll find a pain/discomfort issue, as he is fatigued by this point.

Agree, both of my terrible loaders turned out to have issues causing pain. One was ECVM in his neck (difficult to find, was totally sound) and the other had suspensory issues, no amount of loading practice would help on the day of a lesson or event. Both worse coming home.

Is he the same if travelling with another horse?

 

[TheMule]

Horses don’t choose to do things for no reason, and it's far more effort for the horse to rear/ pull away than it is to just get on the box. The fact it's generally worse when coming home would point me towards physical issues. Classic reasons for bad loading would be painful hocks, back soreness or some issue in the neck

 

[honetpot]

I am the patient type and try and work out what the issue is, I would rather they were happy to load and it was a good experience but having bought in a couple of bad loaders I do think there is a time where standing still resting a hoof is taking the pee, that not going on is not an option.
Early on we had a mare that took two hours to load, ran out ripped the trailer etc, and when I eventually decided that I was fed up I just poked her enough, and it was just poking that she wandered on with not a care in the world.
Old pony would load if there were two adults and mess if there was a teenager, and one you only had to clip the lunge line on the trailer and he would walk straight in, forget the line and he thought had an option.
I would try and work out the 'tell' you are giving him, is it because you are alone, body language, etc
The naughty pony with the lunge line once at a show had two racehorse transport men try and carry him in, he was only 11.2, but the perminant solution was lunge lines and making life a bit uncomfortable for him.
They always get a reward when they go on and always get somene to shut the ramp quick and from the sides.

 

[exracehorse]

I’ve had issues with my ginger mare. Standing at the top of the ramp. And planting. I had Andy Butcher out today. He’s a very well known stunt man. He had her loading in 15 mins.

 

[canteron]

I feel your pain, maybe our horses are twins!

Half an hour to ‘practice’ load today, then she stood of the lorry happily munching hay.

But what I have learnt today is to sometimes practice loading after exercise, not as a separate event.

She used to plant when asked to trot (had her from a baby) and is quite opinionated, so hoping we can work through this too!!

 

[Jambarissa]

Are you loading on hard standing at home and grass when you are away? I realised that was my horses main issue, possibly that she found the footing soft but more likely that she liked the idea of staying to eat. Shift my box onto a path and she'd go straight on.

I like pressure and release but the pressure can come in many forms. Some horses shut down with halter pressure and are better with driving pressure from a whip or a flag but do practice first, they mustn't be afraid!

 

[SantaVera]

Give bucket feed in trailer at least once a day every day for several weeks before actually travelling the horse, then when you do go for ten mins and give bucket feed before and after travelling then work on from there.

 

[SantaVera]

Also make sure horse is good to lead through narrow gaps and on a rocker/ wobble board+in other words get it used to the feel of a trailer outside the trailer environment, Vanessa Bee has a good book about this in her horse agility books

 

[Spottyappy]

We had one who resolutely refused to load away from home- she would self load at home.
In desperation, we took her to a Kelly marks clinic.
She was brilliant. The first thing she did to all of us present was to check the transport was safe. A couple of ramps were deemed less than ideal, and for those people, that may have added to the problem,as their horses were, rightly, concerned about treading on a soft ramp.
The rest of us had various pieces of help and advice, my own was to never let the horse eat (grass, food or hay) outside of the lorry, food is for inside only.
Also, keep the horses head looking where he is going- I.e. into the lorry, not gawping about.
And, to use a corner or make a corral (I ended up taking beach wind breaks with me to make an enclosure in the event of no suitable corners.) Then, the only way way up the ramp.
This worked for us and the horse.

 

[Cowpony]

One of mine doesn't like anything she's standing on wobbling. I have a small brick in the lorry, so if one corner of the ramp isn't supported I slip the brick underneath to make it more stable. I do confess to having left the occasional brick in lorry parks at events.......

But do check your ramp. The boards can rot under the carpet/rubber covering.

 

[Identityincrisis]

Richard Maxwell has discussed the fact some horses are ok to load to go places but reluctant to load to come home. He found a lot were holding tension and discomfort in their neck/shoulders which makes sense, i used to do some muscle release work on my horse when we reached a venue which really helped.

 

[Highmileagecob]

I know that horses cannot vomit, but presumably they can still feel sick - wonder if horses feel travel/motion sickness? Or am I over thinking this?

 

[mustardsmum]

If the horse is bad to load to come home I think you’ll find a pain/discomfort issue, as he is fatigued by this point.

This 100%. All our loading issues usually could be tracked back to the following reasons: pain in transit (hocks etc), tiredness or a problem with trailer resulting in a bad ride (often brakes or panels needing replacing). Recently our boy started being anwkward to load and under saddle. Last week he was diagnosed with ulcers. Meanwhile, at its annual service we discovered the trailer brakes had seized and the hitch hydraulics weren’t working as they should. They have an uncanny sense of knowing when the trailer isn’t right. Years ago, our mare suddenly stopped loading when the brakes were not working. Three years later, refused to load on the way home. She was then diagnosed with hock arthritis.

Could you borrow a lorry to see if he still refuses?

 

[Sugar Plum]

I used Michael recently and it sounds like we have the same issue.

My young cob will load at home and if we do practice drive outs I have very little issue loading him on and off the lorry in another location.

But if he's tired then he is very much the toddler who wants to crash out on the back seat of the car with his favourite teddy bear - he does not want to balance in the lorry for X amount of time when he has spent 2 hours at a clinic. I'm hoping that will change as he gets stronger but I think he will always have that streak of 'I don't want to' in him.

Where Michael was particularly valuable for me was teaching me how to deal with the strop. I now load with a lunge rope so any pulling away, or going round to the side of the ramp doesn't dislodge me from where I'm standing. I was also inadvertently blocking him so I'm more conscious of my body language and where I stand. I've also made it my mission since Michael came to go out at least once a week to a clinic hire or farm ride where I know he will be tired and grumpy at the thought of travelling home and then practising loading on and off the lorry in a safe place where I'm under no pressure to hurry up. Piece of carrot for reward every time he gets on.

I've also had more ventilation put in the lorry because I think it became an issue last summer where he was tired and hot travelling home.

But the one I thing I learnt from having Michael out is there isn't a quick fix and I need to keep working on it every week. I arena hire at a lovely yard where the lorry park is quiet. I've been to dressage and clinics there and he's taken me an hour to load coming home, so I'm now going there at least once a week to use their arena and then use their lorry park to practice the homeward bound loading. Even if it takes an hour to load, he is still being offloaded again until he's walking on quietly.

It really does sound like we are having a very similar set of issues SEL. Your mention of ventilation is similar to what I have done. I installed a window in the back door of my box to allow my horse to see more outside which I thought might be a factor. I am quite interested in the being tired part and loading and reloading when going home. When he doesn't want to load, I am usually desperate and when he does eventually go in, it is slam everything shut before he tries to jump out sort of thing. It will take a lot of willpower to lead him out again after taking an hour or two to load, but I will try that. Not sure it is tired though as I had a monumental struggle a while ago where I had sat at the box, after riding while my horse had some hay and a chill, then proceeded to have the most awful struggle to get him loaded

 

[Sugar Plum]

Long rope and pressure and release technique. Using rope headcollar, release pressure as soon as takes one step forward. The key is to reward each step and just ask for one step at a time. If they have a paddy and run backwards ignore and let the long rope take the slack then gently ask for one step forward. Once on take straight off and go in and out until it becomes boring. Has worked every time for me including with rearers and one that took three hours to load and had to be sedated by vet before horse came to me. Now loads first time every time and only needed one session to sort out.

This is basically the Michael Peace method and works well when I am doing my practise loading but as I said in my original post, this relies on cooperation from the horse

 

[Sugar Plum]

Is he the same if travelling with another horse?

I have recently tried going out with other horses in case this separation was a part of the problem. The issue is, my horse has to go on first as he is always heavier than others (loading on passenger side). Even though he 'knows' he will have company, it doesn't make him load any better

 

[Sugar Plum]

But what I have learnt today is to sometimes practice loading after exercise, not as a separate event.

Canteron, perhaps our horses are twins. Very interesting about loading after exercise (at home) - I might just give this a go to see if it is a post exercise issue. This will separate whether it is a physical issue (i.e. sore after work) or being away from home issue, thank you

 

[Sugar Plum]

Are you loading on hard standing at home and grass when you are away? I realised that was my horses main issue, possibly that she found the footing soft but more likely that she liked the idea of staying to eat. Shift my box onto a path and she'd go straight on.

I like pressure and release but the pressure can come in many forms. Some horses shut down with halter pressure and are better with driving pressure from a whip or a flag but do practice first, they mustn't be afraid!

Jambarissa, surfaces have varied, although I do load from a hard surface at the moment. At other yards it has been grass so I think the surface doesn't pay a role.
For loading assistance I have tried everything but ultimately she will decide if she loads or not. Anything beyond mild pressure and release just makes the situation worse. Interested in the flag option although it will have to be one either side and I don't carry two spare people with me to assist