LOADING ISSUES - HELP!!

[Na1998]

Ok so really need to help as I am at the end of my tether.

I have a horse that is really touch and go loading, if you put any sort of pressure on him he will rear up and step well away from the ramp. He puts his two front feet on and that’s about it, now with lots of practice he does go on when we are parked at home, then it gets better and better each time to the point he is jumping on with no hesitation but as soon as we put the ramp up and go for a drive… it’s totally back to square one, two front on the horsebox and that’s it, he will happily spend hours there putting the two front feet on and then stepping back down, now there’s been a couple of times he has fallen backing down as the foot sometimes positions half on the ramp and half off and then he slips and falls so that is an issue in itself.

Something about the driving he doesn’t like but he doesn’t look stressed as he just happily munches his net when he is in there.

Any advise would be really appreciated, we have been battling with this loading issues for 2 years since I got him and I really can’t see any light and the end of the tunnel

 

[Birker2020]

Had the same issue with my last horse. She would plant two feet on the ramp, head low, ears to the side, bottom lip drooping, not in the least stressed.

Had the behaviourist who said she was mightily taking the mickey and to walk her backwards, then approach the ramp again. We used a dually and the walking backwards away from the ramp when she planted became so tiresome to her that in the end she only wanted to walk forwards!

First 7.5 yrs we never had any problems loading. She went to a Monty Robert's demo with an audience of 650 and never batted an eyelid. He asked me what had led her to this refusal to load and didn't hold any credence the the fact that I felt it stemmed from me stupidly showing her some pet pigs at a show centre in between classes because later that day she wouldn't load to come home and had never been any bother until then. She'd been terrified of them. I think she thought they were travelling with her!

Once in the trailer she was never any problem to travel. It was the loading that was always the issue.

Grant Bazin was the behaviourist I used.

 

[Na1998]

Had the same issue with my last horse. She would plant two feet on the ramp, head low, ears to the side, bottom lip drooping, not in the least stressed.

Had the behaviourist who said she was mightily taking the mickey and to walk her backwards, then approach the ramp again. We used a dually and the walking backwards away from the ramp when she planted became so tiresome to her that in the end she only wanted to walk forwards!

First 7.5 yrs we never had any problems loading. She went to a Monty Robert's demo with an audience of 650 and never batted an eyelid. He asked me what had led her to this refusal to load and didn't hold any credence the the fact that I felt it stemmed from me stupidly showing her some pet pigs at a show centre in between classes because later that day she wouldn't load to come home and had never been any bother until then. She'd been terrified of them. I think she thought they were travelling with her!

Once in the trailer she was never any problem to travel. It was the loading that was always the issue.

Grant Bazin was the behaviourist I used.

Thank you! I just worry backing him off the ramp as that what we did today and he fell over due to where is foot landed on the edge of the ramp, i a nervous wreck with it all as I don’t want him getting hurt but at the same time he is a talented horse that I just feel like I can’t do anything with away from home and it’s seriously disheartening

 

[AWinter]

I would be trying to figure out what it is about travelling that is upsetting your horse. Quite often pain issues can be exacerbated by travelling.

I don’t know how much you have done but I would break it down one step at a time, put the ramp up and take it down and unload, repeat, repeat, eventually go for a 5 minute journey etc and see if any of this helps.

Planting/freezing/looking sleepy can very much be a stress response and usually is in these situations, horses are not looking to give you a hard time they want to feel safe. Some horses blow up and some horses shut down, unfortunately behaviourist still isn’t a protected term and there are many trainers calling themselves this who have no knowledge of behavioural science.

Positive reinforcement training can be very successful for loading if you can find a good trainer, much less stressful for the horse than pressure/release and less likely to result in them panicking/slipping.

 

[Na1998]

I would be trying to figure out what it is about travelling that is upsetting your horse. Quite often pain issues can be exacerbated by travelling.

I don’t know how much you have done but I would break it down one step at a time, put the ramp up and take it down and unload, repeat, repeat, eventually go for a 5 minute journey etc and see if any of this helps.

Planting/freezing/looking sleepy can very much be a stress response and usually is in these situations, horses are not looking to give you a hard time they want to feel safe. Some horses blow up and some horses shut down, unfortunately behaviourist still isn’t a protected term and there are many trainers calling themselves this who have no knowledge of behavioural science.

Positive reinforcement training can be very successful for loading if you can find a good trainer, much less stressful for the horse than pressure/release and less likely to result in them panicking/slipping.

Thank you! I don’t think it is pain related as he has had full MOTs from the vets. Some days he is fine and some days he is not, he will go on for food only if he is very hungry but when he isn’t he is just not fussed about going on, it’s so difficult

 

[Birker2020]

Thank you! I just worry backing him off the ramp as that what we did today and he fell over due to where is foot landed on the edge of the ramp, i a nervous wreck with it all as I don’t want him getting hurt but at the same time he is a talented horse that I just feel like I can’t do anything with away from home and it’s seriously disheartening

When the behaviourist worked with Bailey, being the stubborn but clever horse she was she decided to take to standing with two feet on the ramp at a right angle to the ramp.

I was worried she'd get hurt but he knew she was trying to test him and use her tactics by making me think that way! He said there was no reason why she couldn't get on the trailer that way, she would have to learn to pivot her back end around if she wanted to play silly beggars! And she did! She soon gave up and loaded the conventional way when she knew she couldn't fool us with her amateur dramatics!

At the end of the session he had her lunging onto the trailer stood 10m away from her.

 

[AWinter]

Thank you! I don’t think it is pain related as he has had full MOTs from the vets. Some days he is fine and some days he is not, he will go on for food only if he is very hungry but when he isn’t he is just not fussed about going on, it’s so difficult

Positive reinforcement training is about shaping behaviour and is very effective when done well, it’s not about trying to bribe them in with food. If you let me know your area, PM if you prefer, I might be able to point you in the right direction.

Pressure and release is also an effective training method but unfortunately sometimes far too much pressure is used an accidents happen. Also you will create positive associations much more quickly with reward-based training, which really helps in these situations.

Both methods need to be done by someone with good timing and feel to work well.

Other things I would think about are is he travelling alone? Does he have plenty of room to spread his legs and balance? Is it dark/loud in there. There’s obviously something happening once he actually travels that is putting him off rather than initially loading onto a static box.

 

[Hannahgb]

Do you have any bedding down in it?
I have had two that wouldnt load in a small trailer without shavings down

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

I don't think anyone's mentioned it yet but have you checked the trailer / lorry. The horse will be more sensitive and aware of issues than you are and it could have been something broke on the journey to the show with the pigs, rather than the pig experience.

Tbf, I'd be wanting to load and go, I'm not a huge fan of pigs, they're quite big and intelligent!!

 

[ycbm]

i'm a nervous wreck with it all as I don’t want him getting hurt

I think you need to stop trying to load him yourself until someone else has got him loading successfullyand you can be 100% positive before approaching the trailer with him. To try to load him while even part of you is afraid he will hurt himself is probably going to transmit that fear to him and stop him loading.

I can't recommend anyone myself but I'm sure others will.

 

[TRECtastic]

I can highly recommend jo at complete horse services if you are in the Midlands
Check out her fb page for video of a problem loader

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I am also not sure that it's normal for a horse to fall over with a simple step half on half off the bottom of the ramp - have you done a thorough check to make sure that stabilising himself when driving isn't causing pain somewhere?

 

[PSD]

Mine does this because he can’t stand leaving his friends. But won’t load second I’m going to give calming cookies a try next time because he gets himself in a right tizz and I end up getting frustrated. I know he isn’t bothered about travelling or loading he just simply hates leaving his friends.

 

[Na1998]

I am also not sure that it's normal for a horse to fall over with a simple step half on half off the bottom of the ramp - have you done a thorough check to make sure that stabilising himself when driving isn't causing pain somewhere?

He is absolutely fine, it’s where he is backing down the ramp not wanting to go in and then his foot front foot landing half on the ramp and half off and then the shoe is slipping off the aluminum causing him to tumble

 

[Birker2020]

He is absolutely fine, it’s where he is backing down the ramp not wanting to go in and then his foot front foot landing half on the ramp and half off and then the shoe is slipping off the aluminum causing him to tumble

Coild you use an off cut of carpet or rubber mat on the bottom of the ramp to stop the slipping?

I do feel you should try walking him backwards sharply away from the ramp when he plants. You might need to spend time or repeat this a few times but eventually he will find it us easier and more comfortable to walk towards up the ramp instead.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Thank you! I just worry backing him off the ramp as that what we did today and he fell over due to where is foot landed on the edge of the ramp, i a nervous wreck with it all as I don’t want him getting hurt but at the same time he is a talented horse that I just feel like I can’t do anything with away from home and it’s seriously disheartening

My horse isuckily great to load, however he rushes out the front so I back him out. A few times he has placed his feet in a not ideal position on the edge of the ramp.

I bought a couple of rubber wheelchair ramps that people put next to kerbs etc so the chair can go up and down easily. They are great, it gives them something to stand on if they miss the ramp. Inexpensive and mine live in the front of the trailer.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Deleted

 

[Na1998]

My horse isuckily great to load, however he rushes out the front so I back him out. A few times he has placed his feet in a not ideal position on the edge of the ramp.

I bought a couple of rubber wheelchair ramps that people put next to kerbs etc so the chair can go up and down easily. They are great, it gives them something to stand on if they miss the ramp. Inexpensive and mine live in the front of the trailer.

Hey, this is interested. Do you mind sending me a pic please?

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Hey, this is interested. Do you mind sending me a pic please?

I will pm you as tried and it put personal info on!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Pick it up and chuck it?

Sorry not helpful in the slightest! That only works with Shetlands

 

[nagblagger]

Have you got a camera so you can see what he is doing when travelling? is it herringbone or which way does he face?
Have you travelled in the back (without horse and on private land obviously) to see if there is anything that rattles or vibrates?
How does he walk out the other end?
Sorry for all the questions but it will give the experts on here (not me i hasten to add, i had to go to Richard Maxwell for 2 days with one of mine) a clearer picture to help you.

 

[Snow Falcon]

We have effective loading methods for feral stock.

The trick is with loading is for it not to become a battle. Trust built up beforehand is crucial to success. Plenty of groundwork and desensitisation to scary situations.

 

[LEC]

Tbh pay someone. The tips and tricks don’t work and I paid someone and now have the skills for life. Nothing I cannot load now I understand the process but lucky to have had a superb teacher.

 

[Na1998]

Have you got a camera so you can see what he is doing when travelling? is it herringbone or which way does he face?
Have you travelled in the back (without horse and on private land obviously) to see if there is anything that rattles or vibrates?
How does he walk out the other end?
Sorry for all the questions but it will give the experts on here (not me i hasten to add, i had to go to Richard Maxwell for 2 days with one of mine) a clearer picture to help you.

Hey, yeah we have cameras in the bank and he just eats his net, doesn’t fall or anything once on and has a decent balance, nothing is rattling either, walks out fine and I actually have to pull him out and he will happily stand in there. I have tried to contact Richard Maxwell on so many occasions but he hasn’t responded to any of my messages

 

[Na1998]

We have effective loading methods for feral stock.

The trick is with loading is for it not to become a battle. Trust built up beforehand is crucial to success. Plenty of groundwork and desensitisation to scary situations.

We have tried all of that, he is so good on the ground and the most laid back horse. I just can’t get my head around what the issue as, we have tried him in a bigger lorry, trailer you name it

 

[Snow Falcon]

What's he like in a long dark tunnel? Is it the same on a trailer and lorry? Have you tried walking him on a seesaw?

 

[AengusOg]

It sounds to me as if you've given your horse so many conflicting messages, that he now just hangs around with two feet on the ramp to see what his options are...then he simply uses them all up and refuses to load.
If you're in Scotland I could help you. Otherwise there are plenty of people who, like me, work with difficult loaders a lot who could set you both right.

 

[Na1998]

What conflicting messages? We purchased him as a bad loader so I wouldn’t say it’s an issue on my part, not in Scotland sadly

 

[abbijay]

My clydesdale was a bad loader. We once ended up using him in a Grant Bazin demo as we'd got to a show on the Tuesday and had no idea how we would get him home on the Wednesday. Lorries were the worst but he didn't like travelling in trailers either. I noticed he'd usually rub his tail out and sometimes bruise his flanks from leaning on them when travelling.
I read and watched so much stuff but I picked and chose what I would apply to us. I always used a rope halter - 800kg of horse is a lot when it's leaping around. I ditched all boots, bandages, tail guards, etc. He had a stress reaction to poop when they came out so there was obviously some tension related to them which didn't help. And I took the partition out of my trailer. He's a very long horse so I suspect he struggled for room to balance. Then I went through a training process where we put him on nightly for a week, then started doing short regular trips, then I started going to a local dressage venue once a month and it started to become routine.
Good luck, it's no fun having a bad loader.

 

[webble]

Have a look on Facebook for "the horse shrink" a chap called Paddy, he is really good