Loan crisis

Charmel said:
How much do you think I should offer for her. She cost her owner £1400 two years ago and she has done nothing with her since.

She is 10 yo tbxcob bay mare very fit and good in all ways now! Was strong in gag but like a baby in her french link. Since I have had here she has jumped and won at 3ft 6 and got 68 in her first dressage test ( should improve now extra lessons) she has gone training at x country and flew everything.

She hacks out alone company anywhere...but before we had her, her owner wont take her out without someone and never on grass.....

Her value has probably doubled in 3.5 months TBH

So how much do I offer.....She has tried selling her for £2500, £1200 and £1600 in the past.......
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£1400, what she paid for her. If the only reason the horse is now worth more is down to the training you put in, at your cost. Essentially the horse may be worth less now than she was worth 2 years ago, due to the horse market being pants and the horse being older - she is only worth more due to the work you put in.

I'd think £1400 isn't an insult, but she may have in her mind now that the horse is a super star and she can make a pretty penny from it.
 
Charmel said:
How much do you think I should offer for her. She cost her owner £1400 two years ago and she has done nothing with her since.

She is 10 yo tbxcob bay mare very fit and good in all ways now! Was strong in gag but like a baby in her french link. Since I have had here she has jumped and won at 3ft 6 and got 68 in her first dressage test ( should improve now extra lessons) she has gone training at x country and flew everything.

She hacks out alone company anywhere...but before we had her, her owner wont take her out without someone and never on grass.....

Her value has probably doubled in 3.5 months TBH

So how much do I offer.....She has tried selling her for £2500, £1200 and £1600 in the past.......
Click to expand...

If you cannot bare to part with her by simply sending her back then I'd be offering the owner £1,400 which is what they paid for her. The price she is worth now is due to the hard work and money you have put in to the horse.
 
Patterdale said:
I would just send her back ASAP with my best wishes and move on.

This is the risk you take with loaning, surely you knew this might happen?
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I loan out a pony my daughter has grown out of on our own yard...loaned for two years now no issues and I would dream of taking pony back off the child.

Never loant off someone before always bought but close close friends and thought I would be helping.

Just want to know how much to offer her now....I have invested quite a lot of time, effort and money into her already, thinking she was staying for three years at least....
 
I will try £1400 if all think this is a fair price....

Wish I hadn't got her to begin with really.... My other daughter has two TBs which didnt cost anywhere near that as ex racers and they are just lovely...again time effort and money put in but very little initial outlay.

Thing is quite attached now if you met her you would understand why!
 
Charmel said:
How much do you think I should offer for her. She cost her owner £1400 two years ago and she has done nothing with her since.

She is 10 yo tbxcob bay mare very fit and good in all ways now! Was strong in gag but like a baby in her french link. Since I have had here she has jumped and won at 3ft 6 and got 68 in her first dressage test ( should improve now extra lessons) she has gone training at x country and flew everything.

She hacks out alone company anywhere...but before we had her, her owner wont take her out without someone and never on grass.....

Her value has probably doubled in 3.5 months TBH

So how much do I offer.....She has tried selling her for £2500, £1200 and £1600 in the past.......
Click to expand...

It depends how much you want her. Going against the grain here I'd be inclined to offer £2,500 as I suspect her intention is to try and flog her for a pretty penny next summer and therefore getting back what she originally paid won't cut it if she thinks she can turn a profit next year.
 
Sounds like they are taking the p*ss!! If they really missed her they'd be on your doorstep to pick her up now, not conveniently waiting til the weather improves!! I agree with GG2B, I don't think they'll accept £1400 as they will be more than aware of the hard work you've put in and that she'll now be worth more. Depends on your budget and how much you want to keep her of course - make her an offer and if that's refused tell them that the loan is terminated with immediate effect and they they can pick her up at the weekend. Good luck! What a shame :( x
 
I would send them a bill for livery and schooling due to them going against the verbal agreement. Your daughter has potentially doubled the mares worth at your expense.
 
Sorry, not read the rest of the thread - but yes, offer her some money. Even if it has to be over market value to secure her.

If you don't want to do that - take the horse back this weekend.

Edt. Just seem GG2B's post. £2.5k seems a reasonable amount I'd say. Basically go in high.
 
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Yes it's really annoying they've gone back on their word, yes it's all your hard work that's made the mare, but now you have a great relationship with a really versatile allrounder! If they agree to sell her to you and you can afford her then you're the winner!

I agree with amymay go in fairly high with offer pointing out this is a now only offer and you'll be returning her immediately otherwise, best of luck!
 
I wouldn't go in at 2500, she'd probably want more so I'd start at 2200, you can always go higher.
Whatever, I certainly would be sending her back ASAP. I'm furious on behalf of your daughter, so deceitful and spiteful.
 
How about offering 2500 and giving them a livery bill for 3.5 months, and explaining that as they have gone back on their word you don't appreciate being used as a trainer cum livery yard. They can either take the livery price off the 2500 or pay it and have the horse back tomorrow,of course ,if they take longer the bill will go up.
 
Best to explain the cost of keeping a mare and foal from now to three years from now, and have something thats worth very little. That is just plain badness. I think she will get it back and try to sell it!
 
In negotiations, I learnt that what you do is say something and then shut up.....
I would ask them to take the horse back this weekend, and see if they ask you to buy it............

You can still offer them some money as an afterthought, assuming you want it. Alternatively the girl may offer it to you.
I would certainly play it cool.
 
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I would say that as your daughter is very upset at losing mare better sooner rather than later so would need to take back this weekend or in next week maybe. Say you would love to keep her but understand if she wants her back (could mutter would pay£2000 just to keep daughter happy).

Good luck
 
Goldenstar said:
I really think this is the most likely way to secure the horse for your daughter.
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I think so too, especially as she seems to want the OP to keep the horse until next summer and her dad (from what I understand) pays for the horses. Basically say that you'd like to send the mare back asap to stop your daughter getting more attached, but you would be willing to buy her at X price. Good luck OP, I really hope this one works out for you!
 
agree with Amymay, make a decent offer, slightly lower than the amount you are willing to pay so that you have room to up your offer, if they decline then tell them that you will be returning the horse next weekend.
 
Ibblebibble said:
agree with Amymay, make a decent offer, slightly lower than the amount you are willing to pay so that you have room to up your offer, if they decline then tell them that you will be returning the horse next weekend.
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Tell them to pick it up, you will put it on grass livery or whatever suits you at cost, say £10 per day.
 
Charmel said:
How much do you think I should offer for her. She cost her owner £1400 two years ago and she has done nothing with her since.

She is 10 yo tbxcob bay mare very fit and good in all ways now! Was strong in gag but like a baby in her french link. Since I have had here she has jumped and won at 3ft 6 and got 68 in her first dressage test ( should improve now extra lessons) she has gone training at x country and flew everything.

She hacks out alone company anywhere...but before we had her, her owner wont take her out without someone and never on grass.....

Her value has probably doubled in 3.5 months TBH

So how much do I offer.....She has tried selling her for £2500, £1200 and £1600 in the past.......
Click to expand...
£1400
 
MrsD123 said:
Tell them to pick it up, you will put it on grass livery or whatever suits you at cost, say £10 per day.
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and if they don't pay up OP is out of pocket and will have to chase them through small claims, sometimes easier to just take the horse back yourself at least then you don't get messed about with them saying they'll come collect and then not turning up etc.
 
Offer £1600 don't go higher and ask when do they expect said horse back as you would like stable free before Xmas as you may well be looking for a horse for your daughter, plus you can't give them a bill as your daughter has had said use of horse, just unfortunate she has improved it, rotten lesson to be learnt, just don't take anyone at their word.:(
 
I would offer the £1400 and if they say, well its worth more now......... say OK, you ll take the difference as a cash payment for all your work. i don't see why this girl should get off with it. She will be selling it, but won't find it easy.
 
GG2B said:
In that case call their bluff. Say you appreciate they miss the mare but that you think in this case it would be best if she were returned this weekend before your daughter gets even more attached. I suspect the idea of having to deal with her in winter might cause a U turn.
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Agree with this. I doubt she'll be wanting to keep her after a winter with her.
 
9tails said:
I can't see how the parents are in any way involved in this. OP only states that the dad is her daughter's Godfather, it doesn't look like there was any involvement from them in the initial loan agreement. If OP goes to the parents and tries to strong arm the 18 year old, I reckon it will all go sour. Send the horse back to the 18 year old without involving the parents this weekend, the 18 year old has to then either fess up or struggle through winter.
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Presumably the parents bought the horse, in fact it probably belongs to them not the daughter, in fact. If there had been a loan agreement, it is quite likely that the parents would have been the ones to sign it, as any-one under 18 (which the daughter might well have been) isn't legally allowed to sign a contract.
I think OP should speak to the father, who may well not know what his daughter is planning. Who will pay for the feed etc, not to mention the stud fee, if the horse is returned? I'd be very surprised if it is the 18 yr old.
 
It must be v difficult for you OP as you are friends with the owners. Dont know how I would respond if it were me, as if someone caused my daughter an upset like this I would not be too keen on staying friends! So can see it is a very difficult situation. Bottom line, in your place I would put my daughter's interests at the top of the list and try and work from there. Either buy the mare for something more than she is probably worth excluding your work, or send her straight back and get your daughter something that she will love even more. Hope you can figure it all out. x
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Presumably the parents bought the horse, in fact it probably belongs to them not the daughter, in fact. If there had been a loan agreement, it is quite likely that the parents would have been the ones to sign it, as any-one under 18 (which the daughter might well have been) isn't legally allowed to sign a contract.
I think OP should speak to the father, who may well not know what his daughter is planning. Who will pay for the feed etc, not to mention the stud fee, if the horse is returned? I'd be very surprised if it is the 18 yr old.
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Wouldn't be too sure, my horses are mine even though my mum bought them..
 
I would tell the girl that the pony will be returned next weekend, as she has said the loan will be discontinued next summer - and you need the stable for your daughters new horse. Obviously say that its such a pity that it has not worked out, and would she consider £1200 cash for the pony ? - as a month or two on livery would soon start building up.

Be firm, very firm, dont say anything else - just ask for a location for next Saturday - it gives her a wee while to think things through
 
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