Loan Gone VERY wrong! advice please...

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sarahpaton

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Hi Guys,

I really need some help on a major issue i'm having with a horse on loan. I will also be seeking legal advice, but a bit of advice from people in similar positions always helps!

I have had my Welsh D Rohan out on loan to a family for just over 2 years. I got call in February to say that he'd fallen in the field and needed box rest, but the vet expected a full recovery. Last week, they called to say there was no improvement, and the only thing to do was destroy him. The injury is nerve damage to his shoulder/chest (sweeney). i'm lucky (or maybe unlucky??) enough tohave experience of the injury from nother of my horses.

The problem is, he is uninsured. Although it was a clause in his contract that he should be krpt insured for vets bills & loss of use, the people who have him cancelled it as money was tight- i wasnt aware of this until last week. I'm currently waiting for my vet to call me to see if i can bring him home and keep trying, or whether all hope really is lost.

My issue is, either way i will be at a massive loss. if we shoot him, i not only lose a horse i've owned for 9 years and think the world of, but i get no insurance payout (he should be insured for around £2000), if he comes home i'm left with his vet bills and care bills, plus costs of destruction & disposal should the worst happen. If i begin legal proceedings, im tying up money i desperately need for vets bills!

I'm really not sure what to do to make up for this, i know for sure this will be the last loan i ever enter into!

Any advice much appreciated, the stress is all getting a bit too much!!
 
If there is a clause in the contract saying that he should be insured and they have not followed this then they are personally responsible for any costs incurred.

You need to get some legal advice and a solicitors letter sent out to them pronto. It needs to state that they were in breach of their contract by cancelling the insurance and as a result they will need to refund you in full for the cost of the horse if it is destroyed.
 
If he isn't insured have they definitly done all they can for him vet wise?

You'll have to speak to a legal eagle, but I'd have though due to the fact the contract said he had to be insured and you didn't state at anytime otherwise, you could probably persue them for his value...
 
So sorry to hear about your boy :(

My first port of call would be consumer advice - I know it isn't an issue with a trader but they may be able to offer some advice.

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/

Or

Are you a member of the RAC? They offer Free Legal Advice not just about motor related topics.

As the value of the claim would be low (as far as courts are concerned) it would go to the small claims court which is only £30 for a case
 
Oh and when I say *all costs* I mean any costs also incurred if your vet decides to continue treatment.

Any horse that is on loan you are perfectly entitled to a second vet opinion before euthanasing a horse. If it is deemed that the horse may recover and treatment is viable then I would still make them pay for the further costs because the horse is no longer insurable due their failure to keep to the contract.
 
What a nightmare for you. This sort of thing annoys me greatly because it gives all the good loaners out there a bad name.

First and foremost I would forget the loaners for now. I would issue them a written letter to tell them that you are terminating the agreement for breach of contract and will be obtaining legal advice regarding small claims proceedings (irrespective of whether this is your intention or not).

Your main focus has to be what is right for your horse at this point in time. I would request from the current treating vet a full report for diagnosis, treatment given, future options and likely long term prognosis. I would then get a second opinion and either make the decision to treat your horse or PTS based on the results and your own situation.

In the interim I would get the legal advise from a solicitor specialising in equine cases. To be honest, most loan agreements aren't worth the paper they are written on and I doubt you will have a lot of luck with the loaners.
 
thanks for such quick replys guys : )

galaxy, im not sure they are myself, ive had his scans etc sent to my vet to get his opinion as he dealt with my other horse when he did the same , but having spoken to him he doesnt sound too hopeful. I do have an issue though with the fact he's not been given any of the drugs my Arab was- he had steroids an plenty of pain relief- poor Rohan is getting nothing at all!


sheri, thanks for that, will get onto consumer advice today. im not with the RAC but my other half is so will use his privileges! : )

will definitely be persuing it through small claims if the cost is that low...i also forgot to mention they sold his made to measure saddle to pay his first vets bill! VERY unimpressed!!
 
join the BHS Gold Member (£54 I think) and you get free Equine Legal Advise

Your poor boy. I do hope he's ok as can be.
 
I do have an issue though with the fact he's not been given any of the drugs my Arab was- he had steroids an plenty of pain relief- poor Rohan is getting nothing at all!
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When did you first become aware of this? Have you spoken to the treating vet?
 
If you are a BHS member you have access to their legal helpline for free.

As a legal person I am certain you have a claim here. There is a clear breach of contract and a clear loss flowing from that breach. You are entitled to recover all of your losses resulting from their failure to insure. So what you would have received from your insurance had he been insured.

This would fall within the scope of the small claims court if the loss is less than £5000 and the small claims track is designed so that lay people can bring their claims without legal advice if necessary. So it need not be expensive if you haven't got any legal cover (check your home insurance and your car policy though).

Remember that if you make a successful claim against them and they fail to pay you can enforce the judgement and leave them with a CCJ as well as doing things like putting charges on their home or getting an attachment of earnings to discharge the debt.

But this shouldn't put people off loaning their horse, the easy way to avoid this is to insure yourself and get the loanee to pay you the amount of the policy, plus their own riding insurance.
 
OMG - this really annoys me a lot. Due to my horse's injury, I now fully well how insurance would be important... in fact, I can't afford to NOT have insurance. Unfortunately, some people are always going to be incredibly stupid!

If it was in the contract, then they must obviously have breached the contract!!! So I would assume that legally, something can be done... unless there are some stupid loopholes.

This is very appalling for everyone who may want to loan a horse. I may be doing a "one-year loan" because my horse is unrideable, and I am afraid I may not find one if loaners give everyone who loans a bad name.
 
it's just such a shame, it really does change your opinion. I've had 3 horses out on loan in the last few years, one came home injured, one had his tack stolen and now this! and yet i had a pony on loan for 10 years, complete success!

I know with the stolen tack situation, the contract was practically worthless. Lets just hope this time round it's a little more watertight....

poor old boy really does deserve better, but it always is the best ones isnt it!
 
1st things 1st, get a vet you trust out to assess him. If he is fit enough to travel, get him home.
Once you have him home, you can pursue the legal route to get back any costs you incur through treating him, plus the cost of the horse, should he not recover, but at least you can provide the care and drugs he may need.
As long as you have that contract and it was witnessed by a 3rd party, stating it was the loanee's responsibility to insure him, you have a case you can take to the small claims court.
 
amymay- i spoke to the treating vet and insisted that he was given something to aid his recovery...they told me that he did not need pain relief as he's not in enough pain and couldn't have steroids as they may cause laminitis! i told them he's not prone and it's arisk im willing to take, but they said them and their 'customer' had agreed he was best off without! feels very much like im in this alone, just hope my vet comes back and says bring him home, but it's a 2 hour trip so alot when he's so unbalanced. just got to keep trying i think!
 
...i also forgot to mention they sold his made to measure saddle to pay his first vets bill! VERY unimpressed!!
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They sold his saddle, without your permission? That was your property and not theirs to sell. Did they ask for money to fund the vets bills from you before they sold it?

Anyway. I think you need some good legal advice, from an experienced equestrian legal firm who have experience in horse loans. Ask the BHS for advice on this too. Have pony brought home, so at least he'll be safe and nothing else can happen without your knowledge.
 
If I were you I would get your pony home as the first step. Then sue them through the small claims court. The fact they have sold your saddle amounts to theft on its own. I really feel for you. The lack of drugs given to the horse sound more financial (not to spend the money) rather than what is in the best interests of the equine.
 
hi misinterpreted, yes they did! they sold it to cover the cost of his scans when he first injured himself. it was never discussed, they say they though he would never be ridden again and so didnt need it! really hoping wer can bring him home, it's just the travelling- im not sure hes stable enough for such a long journey. My vet has also said today he thinks the longterm effects could cause arthritis and his quality of life may be compromised, but i really do begrudge giving up so soon. I know the vets bills will be much more than i can really afford, but im hoping the sympathy vote with my yard owner may keep his livery cost down which will help...
 
I don't understand how you as the owner aren't allowed to have a say in whether he has medication because the loaner doesn't want to?! I would have your pony back home pronto. Surely if the pain is bad enough that he may need to be PTS then it is bad enough to warrant some type of pain relief to at least make him comfy while a decision is made?
I have little legal knowledge but really hope this gets sorted out soon for the pony's sake at least. Good luck :(
 
Steroid tablets are very expensive... £70 a pot for 100 tablets. The highest does I could give my 14hh pony was 10 a day.... Don't want to make rash judgements but it sounds like they don't want to spend any money on him


I can't believe they sold your saddle! Unbelievable! I'm actually furious for you!


You REALLY must go and seek legal advise!
 
I might well be wrong, no insurance expert, but I think that even if the loanees did have him insured, if it was in their name it would only cover expenses for his treatment while he stayed with them?

When I had a horse out on loan we had agreed that the costs all reverted to me as soon as the horse came home - I am not sure whether your contract will make any real difference. But agree with those saying seek a legal expert for advice!
 
sarahpaton said:
hi misinterpreted, yes they did! they sold it to cover the cost of his scans when he first injured himself. it was never discussed, they say they though he would never be ridden again and so didnt need it! really hoping wer can bring him home, it's just the travelling- im not sure hes stable enough for such a long journey. My vet has also said today he thinks the longterm effects could cause arthritis and his quality of life may be compromised, but i really do begrudge giving up so soon. I know the vets bills will be much more than i can really afford, but im hoping the sympathy vote with my yard owner may keep his livery cost down which will help...
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So they said he would be ok again, yet they didnt think he would ever be ridden again?
Selling on something that does not belong to you, its that theft?

I would be raging if I was you. I had a clause in my contracts that loanee was resp for ALL vets bills, and if horse was seriously injured to point of euthanasia then they would pay the market value for the horse if the accident was a direct result of something they did. I didnt have him insured for loss of use as he is not that valuable and we are prepared for him to be a field ornament in the future anyway.

I would be getting horse back, call BHS, and see if you can get legal aid and start proceedings against them. Also make sure you claim for the saddle as well. You dont bloody sell a hire car if you break a leg!

I cannto believe that the vet will take instruction from the loanee and not you the OWNER of the horse. I would demand that they issue painkillers and follow the appropriate course of action - maybe even get your vet involved. The loanee should now have NO say in what happens other than to pay the bills.


Good luck in pursiung this, and Ihope that you do as long as it isnt going to be emotionally and financially draining for you. XX hugs for you and Rohan
 
I'm sorry, I don't have anything useful to add but wanted to say how angry and upset I am for you. I have a horse on loan and it would break my heart if I couldn't afford vet treatment if he needed it, hence he is insured to the hilt. I really hope this works out ok for you and pony xx
 
I am no legal expert but I am absolutelly gutted and furious for you!!!

They obviously have no respect for your or your pony by leaving him un-insured and selling his / YOUR tack! I'd be livid!! Do you have a reciept for the saddle? - dig it out and photocopy it - you'll need it!

I really hope you are able to persue this - they deserve to be shown a lesson and above all I hope your pony gets the love and care he deserves.
 
at work said:
When I had a horse out on loan we had agreed that the costs all reverted to me as soon as the horse came home - I am not sure whether your contract will make any real difference. But agree with those saying seek a legal expert for advice!
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My friend had that in her contract, but due to the fact horse need a lot of care and treatment and injury was not prop treated by loanees they were made to pay for all his treatment up to the point it was decided that he was unridable and retired.
 
The priority is the welfare of your horse.

The first thing you need to do is to instruct a specialist equine solicitor to check that your contract is valid. And if it is valid that you can give notice without loosing any rights as in the contract you have with the person(s) loaning the horse and then be able to bring the horse home to you without predjudicing the contract.
You then need to get your vet to check the condition of your horse and if further treatment is advised then have this done.
Taking action to recover any money due to you will depend on the validity of the contract. Unless a solicitor checked the contract prior to it being agreed I am afraid it probably will not stand up in court.
 
thanks for all your support everyone, i was about ready to give up completely this morning!

i've just called my vet and asked him to get in touch with the surgery treating him to insist he is at least kept comfortable with painkillers until we reach a decision. He has also said that if they are not cooperative, he will send up the necessary drugs and invoice the loanee directly- chasing legally if they do not pay : ) massive relief that at least he'll be painfree whatever happens. hate to think of him suffering through their stupidity and neglect.

He's also doing all he can to find out whether he can come home- hes suggested heavy sedation and basically packing him into a box so he cant fall- although he cant promise much once hes home. could all still end very much in tears, he's told mne not to get my hopes up...

I've put an appeal on facebook for the local riders/owners group for any unneeded rubber matting, hay, bedding and bute...every little helps i suppose!

If anyone knows the name of a good vet in the manchester/bolton artea that may be more helpful or decent equine law firm, i'd really appreciatye their names/numbers.

I'll keep you al updated, if anyone has anymore brainwaves please do keep them coming.

In the meantime, im not going to give up, its the easy way out but i know i'll regret it!!
 
OWLIE185 said:
The priority is the welfare of your horse.

The first thing you need to do is to instruct a specialist equine solicitor to check that your contract is valid. And if it is valid that you can give notice without loosing any rights as in the contract you have with the person(s) loaning the horse and then be able to bring the horse home to you without predjudicing the contract.
You then need to get your vet to check the condition of your horse and if further treatment is advised then have this done.
Taking action to recover any money due to you will depend on the validity of the contract. Unless a solicitor checked the contract prior to it being agreed I am afraid it probably will not stand up in court.
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There is no requirement for a contract to be looked at by solicitor to be binding.

If the agreement is based upon the BHS one I would expect it to stand up in court as that is drawn up by solicitors.

I would also advise the OP to phone her local police non-emergency number and report the theft of her saddle and get a crime reference number asap. This will be useful evidence if the matter goes to court, may assist in getting the saddle back and may also result in action being taken against the loanee.
 
What a horrid situation to be in, I hope you get it sorted.

Just to throw a spanner in the works though, even if he was insured, you may find the insurance company wouldnt pay out for death, unless it can be proved it is inhumane to keep him alive. This could be argued by the loanee in regards to it going to court, so i would recommend consulting a insurance company first....
 
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