Loan hassles ... advice please

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autumnap

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Hi folks.

A few months ago, my horse went out on loan (with view to purchase at the end of the loan term). The lady who took him seemed very nice and assured me that she was confident and capable of bringing on a green, lively TB X youngster and had experience of TBs.

Alarm bells rang when I spoke to her referree who described her as a lovely person but really just a "Novice" with confidence issues. However, arrangements had been made and I decided to see how things went. All seemed to go ok at first, until I began to get reports that the horse had tanked off with her and she had started feeding him calming supplements and other sedative type products which I asked her not to do. It quickly became apparent that the horse was well beyond her capabilities and we agreed that he would be returned to me before any more damage was done (to either party), together with all my belongings as per our written loan contract.

I have now placed the horse with a professional who is re-schooling him for me, a process which is likely to take at least four weeks before he can be sold. It would appear that he has totally lost all confidence in his rider. He virtually turns cartwheels when mounted, and currently has to be ridden in a pelham and running martingale otherwise he just sticks his head in the air and takes off. He also seems to have forgotten how to canter on one rein.

To be fair, the lady very kindly brought him back for me. I asked her to make sure she remembered his documents however when she arrived with the horse, she stated that she had "forgotten" his passport and vaccination record but promised to post them to me recorded delivery. That was almost a fortnight ago and thus far I've had nothing. I've sent two polite texts to remind her and yesterday I emailed her asking in slightly stronger terms for the return of my property. Thus far I've been ignored. She also still has one of my rugs (a newish one in reasonable condition) which she "forgot" to bring with her.

So not only have I incurred considerable expense in having my horse re-schooled, but I also can't move him or sell him without the documentation she has for some reason retained.

My next course of action will be to send a recorded delivery letter requesting the return of my property just in case her phone/email aren't working (unlikely!). Should there be no response to this, I'm left no alternative but to report my items as stolen and let the police deal with it.

Never, ever, ever again will I loan out one of my horses! Be warned people, it's a minefield!

Just wondered if anyone out there has had a similar experience and if so who did they resolve it and get their property back without having to resort to the "heavy mob" in blue?!

Many thanks.
 
I cannot understand why you did not do further checks after the warning from the referee. Why did you send a young tb to someone described as 'novice' no matter how nice they are? Your horse and you are now paying the price for that decision.
 
It is a shame, but surely the refereree's comments about being a novice meant that the loaner was not suitable. Why did you decide to ignore the comments? Presumably because it suited you at the time - so please don't then try to lay all the blame on the loaner. If she really IS a novice, then she would not have realised how unsuitable she was - that information was passed to you by her referee and you chose to ignore it.

Notwithstanding, you are now doing the right thing, and she obviously needs to return the paperwork to you - I suggest you drive over and pick it up.
 
Please dont tar every loanee with the same brush, we're not all like that lol. Although in future i would thoroughly vet the home and check and double check the refrences. Did she not ride your horse before she took it out on loan? surely if she did then alarm bells would have rung before a yes or no was even considered?/ i rode both my loan horses at least 6 times before a decision was made to ensure all parties were happy.
With regards to your documents, i would send a recorded letter saying if not recived within x number of days you will fetch it yourself and if no further forward, get the police involved. hope you get it sorted theres nothing worse than people being awkward.....
 
Oh cripes, if I can get our mare on the trailer she is going off to her new loan with view to buy home on Sunday, we have a contract with equipment listed and a pre-agreed purchase price but we never thought to ask for references. I have no doubt the mare will be treated well but whether she will treat her new loaner/owner well is another matter. You can't help but worry when you read things like this.
 
I would say stop texting and emailing, what is wrong with an actual phone call from one human to another. I would also suggest you drive over there and ask for your rug and paperwork.
 
I have loaned horses in the past and we're not all bad! Far from it!

Before I bought my arab mare, I loaned her for a year and half and at the time I was a total novice and the mare was far too much for me.

Luckily for me her then owner had another horse stabled next to me and she helped me a lot. Her advice and tuition was invaluable to me as she knew the mare inside out (and it still is).

I now own her and have had her for nearly 4 years and we have a lovely relationship (took a while but we got there) but I still to this day seek advice from her previous owner if needed.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that loans can work but the owner needs to take responsibility too as, after all, they know their horse better than anyone.

Good luck with getting your stuff back...
 
I agree with the poster who said don't tar all. My boy has been on loan for 1 half years am really happy with how he us looked after I was not planning on selling him but as he is in a great home the sale of him is almost complete there are good loaner out there
 
Personally I think you made quite a big mistake by knowingly loaning this sort of horse to a novice unfortunately.

I've put my 12yo allrounder on loan twice and I always go for people with their own horses, land and years of experience behind them..no novices - ever (sorry lol). At the end of the day you're dealing with strangers (if advertising) and you have to be careful and very picky.
 
Sadly the minority ruin it for the majority! My arab is out on loan to some lovely people, but i am lucky in the fact that, although 90 miles away from me, my sister lives just round the corner from where he is kept & her partners Uncle owns the ground he is kept on. On the otherside of the coin we are collecting our cob gelding who was out on loan with a view to buy tomorrow, to say i am livid with the loaner is an understatement...i can feel my own "loaning" post coming on tomorrow after we have collected him :(
 
I too would go visit her sooner rather than later, and collect your things

I have loaned out my pony to two different people and it went well both times, the first was known to me and the second recomended. I did not have a contract, but if i was to do it again I would.

All equipment came back, they wormed and had dentist etc to him, no problems.
 
Not cantering on one rein and sticking head in air can both be signs of discomfort, more likely that than being mentally damaged by a novice rider I'd guess?. You might want to get a quick vet/saddle check.
 
Oh dear - your poor horse

Hopefully you've had back, teeth & saddle checked & ensured there's no pain or discomfort.

I really don't like these threads that blame everything on the loaner - it is partly your fault for sending your green horse to a novice. The idea of having referees is that they give you an opinion, if you weren't going to listen to that what's the point of contact the ref in the first place?

How long was the horse with the loanee? Didn't you go and check on the horse after a few weeks to make sure all was OK?
 
I would sugest going to her house and collecting your stuff, before going down other routes.
I had a young girl riding one of my ponies, parents had horses before, and i knew them, so they just rode when they could. They have'nt used the pony since the winter, and i have asked on about three occasions for the bridle back, and still they hav'nt returned it, i know they are busy, and things slip the mind, but still, i am getting a bit piffed off.
 
Did you not watch her ride him then before he went to her?

I would go to her house and ask for the stuff back, it's your property after all.

I don't think you can complain though about the expense of the reschooling as it's your own fault really for not vetting the home your Horse was going too
 
autumnap said:
Hi folks.

A few months ago, my horse went out on loan (with view to purchase at the end of the loan term). The lady who took him seemed very nice and assured me that she was confident and capable of bringing on a green, lively TB X youngster and had experience of TBs.

Alarm bells rang when I spoke to her referree who described her as a lovely person but really just a "Novice" with confidence issues. However, arrangements had been made and I decided to see how things went. All seemed to go ok at first, until I began to get reports that the horse had tanked off with her and she had started feeding him calming supplements and other sedative type products which I asked her not to do. It quickly became apparent that the horse was well beyond her capabilities and we agreed that he would be returned to me before any more damage was done (to either party), together with all my belongings as per our written loan contract.

I have now placed the horse with a professional who is re-schooling him for me, a process which is likely to take at least four weeks before he can be sold. It would appear that he has totally lost all confidence in his rider. He virtually turns cartwheels when mounted, and currently has to be ridden in a pelham and running martingale otherwise he just sticks his head in the air and takes off. He also seems to have forgotten how to canter on one rein.

To be fair, the lady very kindly brought him back for me. I asked her to make sure she remembered his documents however when she arrived with the horse, she stated that she had "forgotten" his passport and vaccination record but promised to post them to me recorded delivery. That was almost a fortnight ago and thus far I've had nothing. I've sent two polite texts to remind her and yesterday I emailed her asking in slightly stronger terms for the return of my property. Thus far I've been ignored. She also still has one of my rugs (a newish one in reasonable condition) which she "forgot" to bring with her.

So not only have I incurred considerable expense in having my horse re-schooled, but I also can't move him or sell him without the documentation she has for some reason retained.

My next course of action will be to send a recorded delivery letter requesting the return of my property just in case her phone/email aren't working (unlikely!). Should there be no response to this, I'm left no alternative but to report my items as stolen and let the police deal with it.

Never, ever, ever again will I loan out one of my horses! Be warned people, it's a minefield!

Just wondered if anyone out there has had a similar experience and if so who did they resolve it and get their property back without having to resort to the "heavy mob" in blue?!

Many thanks.
Click to expand...


Hi - Loanee here.

I’m not going to engage in a public slagging match with you Alison, as I don’t see the point in doing so. However I feel the need to respond to your post as I am really really upset that you have taken to a public forum in this manner, and made such hurtful, quite frankly slanderous and unfounded accusations.

I think you and I both know that most of what you’ve written is not true.

I am sorry if Spencer is causing your professional problems, since you suggested every bit, martingale and aid under the sun I am surprised that you are upset that he is being ridden in a Pelham. I hope you now understand the problems I’ve been having with him. I have dealt with TBs and had an exracer in the past as you well know, However Spencers behaviour has left me with zero confidence, and Im actually not riding at the moment as my confidence is soo low. This was the only reason that I was unwilling to continue with the loan. To remind, as you seem to have forgotten, this horse, tanked, repeatedly, would throw him self into ditches, hedges and in the path of traffic if he didn’t get his way, he double barreled a practically static car, tanked THROUGH another horse for absolutely no apparent reason and left said horse on its knees. Even to handle if he didn’t get his own way he would tank and quite literally drag you behind him if you disagreed with him, which he did with both my instructor when she tried to lunge him and me when I was leading him into the field. So no, I may not be the worlds greatest rider, I was looking for a RC all-rounder, I was happy with a project but this behaviour was beyond me, I’m sorry if you felt led to believe that I was some kind of Zara Phillips but I really don’t feel that’s how I portrayed myself. A for the record I did have his back, saddle and teeth check, at my own cost.

Your passport etc was sent to you yesterday, the tone of your post implies that you have been chasing me for months and months, whereas the reality is that it only a week ago that that I dropped him off for you, so your reaction is a little extreme don’t you think? I only get a 20 minute lunch hour and the closest Post office is the opposite side of town. Since you didn’t even thank me for returning him to a yard over a hours drive further than where he was loanded from, taking a whole day to do so on a date that suited you and which cost over £100 in fuel and toll charges, I didn’t feel inclined to rush out and run errands on your behalf. I think you could have been a bit more patient, still it should be with you now so little point in arguing.

I’m not sure which rug you are missing as you where present when I unloaded the lorry and I verbally listed items as I passed them down to you and your OH. You didn’t mention anything at the time. I have not received any messages from you. I will now check my emails just in case. I will check at the yard later as I am not a thief thank you very much I really really do not appreciate the insinuation that I deliberately 'forgot' to return this.

I feel it’s a little unfair to place soo much of the blame at my door when perhaps you where not quite as honest about the horse as you made out to be in your last post.

I have loaned 3 other horses over the years, and no other owner has been soo unhappy with me or felt the need to behave as you have.

Next time you feel the need to rant a phone call would be much more appreciated than a public berating.

Thank you
 
The passport belongs to the passport agency you got it from, ring them and they will send the lady a letter asking for it to be returned to them. Thats what they did for me when someone withheld my horses passport. Then they posted it onto me.
 
It is usual practice for the person who loans the horse to pay for returning it. The horse should not have been travelled without a passport therefore your loaner broke the law.
As for loaner having only 20minutes lunch, what is wrong with getting some stamps at a local shop or garage and putting it in a postbox on the way to or from work? At least its on its way to you now.
It obviously wasn't the horse for her and having it back and proffessionally sorted seems the best for all of you. Shame you didn't do that in the first place and that way he wouldn't have been messed about and you and your loaner wouldnt have this disagreement. I have met so many ''nice'' people through horses who are actually very far from it, makes you very cynical.
 
Tinypony said:
Interesting to hear both sides of the story.
Click to expand...

My thoughts too - but isnt that the trouble with forums - we so often jump in with opinions (I am also guilty of this I have to admit:o) without having the other side of the story. After all, perhaps we should remember that in a fair and just world, both sides should be taken into account before judgement is passed.

Shall try to think of this next time I am bashing away on the keyboard in furious support of the OP!:rolleyes:
 
Such a shame for you , hope it all works out. But please dont tarr all loaners with the same brush. The re-schooling problems wouldnt have happened if you listened to the referee, and the stolen items is a very personal thing to this loaner. I have loaned and loaned out horses very sucessfully, and when I had a loan that came with all his equiptment, I replaced all (of which there were many by the horse) breakages, and he went back in super condition, improved feet and generally a happy boy, all was very amicable

Edit- sorry didnt read the loaners response.
 
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Result!

What a shame I had to resort to poking with a sharp stick in public to get a response.

Unfortunately however, in my experience, if someone persists in ignorning polite texts and emails I suspect it is highly unlikely that they will answer a phone call or return a voicemail. And considering I was assured that the documents would be in the post 10 days ago I think I was quite right to be concerned.

To all those who asked, yes the loaner did ride the horse before she took him and looked happy and perfectly able to cope which is why I let my horse go out on loan to her. Of course I did not expect Zara Phillips! And the actual home he went to was lovely. He did however go happily in a snaffle and aside from being a bit fidgety to mount (typical baby) was obedient in every other way, including his jumping which he had started confidently before he left. So I have been left with a shedload of problems we didn't have which I am now paying to have sorted out. And as folk have pointed out, that's totally my fault for my choice of loan home for him, although I would say in my defence that he did not have any of the behavioural issues when he went that he came back with. I also found it rather interesting when we went to visit the horse just before his return to me, that the loaner's own mother told me that she knew from the very beginning that her daughter had over-horsed herself.

Anyway, my beef was with the non-return of my stuff and the fact that my polite reminders were being ignored. So as long as the things arrive in the post in the next couple of days, end of matter.
 
Sorry but if you had doubts about her abilities you should have taken the horse back sooner thank goodness they did not have an accident.

I loaned my boy before I bought him although I did ride him in all sorts of situations before I took him on. His ex-owner visited regularly and I always called her when I had a question.

I would just turn up and nicely ask if I could have my rug and documents if she says that she has misplaced both then request they are returned within 14 days if not then you will need to take the matter further. That is the time to call the police as you have given her reasonable notice and the police will recognise this.
 
We did have accidents. Several actually, he broke my ribs on one occassion. It was insisted on that the passport was sent recorded and that's what I did. Unfortunately I could only do this by visiting the post office, I didn't realise I had left the passport behind until i wad half way there, why on earth would I want to keep his passport? What possible reason could I have for that. And interesting that when you visited you admitted that he had tanked with you, oh and the reason you won't ride him again?? Not because of your 'bad ankle' is it. I can only say I regret the whole episode and I hope he gets a good home, I trust your professional will be more honest with potential new homes.
 
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