Loan home gone very wrong - advice needed

Missadelaide

Missadelaide

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Hi guys,

I am a now and again poster and could really do with some advice.

I have a 4yr old ISH gelding that I sent out on loan on Saturday as I cannot afford to keep him and have had no interest in his sale advert. He had a previous injury about 9 months ago that I did not disclose to the loanee as it had recovered and he's been sound for 7/8 months now. He had done his achilles tendon and had been fine since I brought him into work. We have been hacking, jumping, schooling and he'd been tearing around his field and no heat or any kind of issue with the old injury.

On Saturday I sent him out on loan, I delivered him there and he was perfectly sound. The girl who recieved him watched him trot around the field as did her friend and I. I handed over his equipment and we both signed the contract and I got on my way.

That evening I had a text to say he was lame on the leg that he had an old injury from, so I called her and told her about the old injury but said it was highly unlikely that it could have re-occured. She agreed to see how it was in the morning.

The following morning I got a text to say I had given her a damaged horse and I had to collect him. I told her despite the fact she has to give a months notice I would have him back but she would have to bring him, to which she refused but after a while she agreed to bring him back. He arrived back last night.

I have checked him and there is no doubt he has redone the injury but he has also lost a shoe. I have sought legal advice and been told that she has to pay vets fees and is also liable for a months keep as she is in breech of contract. However, she is now insisting that he was like that when he arrived and they have done nothing to him and that I deliberately sent her a lame horse. She says she won't give any money towards vets fees and that because I didn't disclose an old injury I should pay.

I have loaned horses out before but never had any problems before - help, I am now stuck with a horse I can't afford to keep and don't really want to start getting lawyers involved. Any advice appreciated!!
 
I hate to say this, but you really should have disclosed the old injury- 9 months isn't a very long time and the person who is loaning him is rightly very upset. If I were you' I'd bite your tongue and take him back along with his vets bills. This isn't poor care on her behalf, or mad riding or incorrect use- and if you'd disclosed the injury I doubt she'd have taken him on and wouldn't be in this position.

Sorry, this isn't what you'd have wanted to hear but we loan our horses, and if this was us I'd be devastated and very angry. If the injury is from us riding or our care we take on the vets bills and pay them but in this case we wouldn't be.
 
Hi there

I have no experience of this so this is only my opinion and it is probably wrong. I think that you needed to disclose all previous injury info regardless of how long ago it was, especially a serious injury as it can always come back. I think that as he went lame the same day he arrived, I can't see how the loaner is at fault. I understand its a breach of loan agreement that they needed to give you a months notice, but the horse went lame almost after travelling.

In my lack-of-knowledge-on-the-subject-of-loaning opinion, I would draw a line under the situation and get a vet to see the horse at your expense.

I hope the injury heals quickly. cx

Good luck
 
Sorry but i agree with Lolo, you should have told them about the injury and in the contract i would have expected you to pay all vets fees relating to old injury. So even if they had kept him i would expect you to pay for vets fees as it was an exhisting problem (even if it has been heeled 6 months) I loaned out my pony who previously had sarcoids and if they ever reoccur I will pay all costs even though i am not looking after the pony. All new problems to be paid by lonee (sp?). I hope your horse gets better soon.
 
I would have to agree with this ^^^^

Don't pursue the loaner, he was only with her for one night! It's really not her problem and she certainly shouldn't be expected to pay vets bills.
 
To be honest, had it been me who had loaned the horse and then found out it had such an injury, I would have been furious at not having been told.

This is a type of injury that could re-occur and should have been mentioned. Your loaner could have made an informed decision as to whether she wished to take a risk.

Whilst it has put you out, I think you have to accept the situation as it is, (forget lawyers that is likely to cost you more money) sort the horse out and if it's sound enough, readvertise.
 
Agree with all of the above and would not consider 9 months a long enough recovery period before going into unknown work.
Ok to start controlled work with you who knew the history but not with someone who didn't.
 
Vet says it's a thoropin and he will need a month off work and should be ok to start walk work after that, so fingers crossed it is ok in the end.

Next time I will be sure to mention it as didn't think this would happen. Thanks for your input though guys.
 
I don't see why the loanee should have to cough up to pay vet bills for an old injury that has risen it's ugly head again that you failed to disclose in the first place, I'm not suprised the person who took him on loan isn't happy to be fair (as in paying for treatment), ok so she should of given you more notice (I agree there) fair do's but if the horse is not fit for purpose (which is why she took the horse on loan to begin with I presume) and an old injury has presented itself once again, end of the day it's your horse and you're responsible for the sucessful treatment of an old injury surely?.
 
Agree with all the other posters.
For future reference it would be only fair to your horse, never mind the loaner, to point out any past injuries he may have had. Similarly if you come to sell you could find yourself in difficulty if things go wrong and you have been less than truthful.
 
I wouldn't be impressed if I loaned a horse without knowing that it had a tendon injury previously...
And I wouldn't pay any money towards vet bills as horse had a serious injury previously that I wasn't made aware of.

Sorry to hear that your horse is injured again, maybe a year off in a field somewhere like the blood banks?
 
You are very much in the wrong. You delivered a lame horse, or one that in a hooley round the field has reinjured his old injury. This is not the loanees fault, they should have been made fully aware of the issues, you are now left with a lame horse and it is tough luck and your own fault.
 
Just to clarify here - I never delivered a lame horse. The horse had been sound and back in work for 8 months. I would never deliver a lame horse to somebody. He had the all clear by the vet and I was told I should have no further problems as it was a minor strain.
I moved house and had a new vet out today who clarified it as a thoroughpin.

So for those of you who think I delievered a lame horse with an ongoing issue this is not the case. Had my vet not have given the all clear, I would never have put him on loan.
 
I can sypathise but agree you were in the wrong not to disclose the previous injury. I have had loan horses in the past and would never take one on with such a recent injury. Just out of interest would you have disclosed it to a potential buyer.

On another point, Insurance, you say the loanee should pay the vets bills, but the old injury wouldn't be insured, so if she had taken out insurance, and you don't mention this, then through no fault of her own, if the old injury re-occurred it wouldn't be covered. Another reason for not taking the horse in the first place.
 
Missadelaide said:
Just to clarify here - I never delivered a lame horse. The horse had been sound and back in work for 8 months. I would never deliver a lame horse to somebody. He had the all clear by the vet and I was told I should have no further problems as it was a minor strain.
I moved house and had a new vet out today who clarified it as a thoroughpin.

So for those of you who think I delievered a lame horse with an ongoing issue this is not the case. Had my vet not have given the all clear, I would never have put him on loan.
Click to expand...

Thing you should be cut a little slack here but people are ignoring your post's and what you have stated since your original posting!. Hindsight is a marvellous thing, you didn't deliberately set out to misrepresent the horse, you have already stated that you will bring up this injury if the horse goes out on loan again. Hope your boy recovers quickly and you are able to find a good home for him
 
Thankyou Lucy - I didn't think what I had done was bad but I feel like I am being made into a monster on here.

I have had 2 offers - one from a lady on here and one from a friend's Mum to take him for me - recovery should only be a month off and a month on walk work but due to me not being able to get anymore work at the moment, I am not in a great position to keep him.
 
Having also loaned out one of my horses before you MUST disclose any previous injury no matter how long ago the horse recovered from it. When my mare went out on loan i checked her over with the loanee and we noted any scars/bumps etc that she had on her and i also informed her of ALL her old injuries (in fact she'd only had one but thats besides the point). The loanee was fully aware of everything.

You should have made the new loaner aware of the injury regardless and unfortunately i have to agree with the loanee and i certainly wouldnt be paying you any money either as you have been dishonest with her in the first place. It dosent make any odds whether the horse was fully recovered or not you should have still told her.

The best thing you can do is walk away and leave it and take this as a steep learning curve.
 
What a shame - no dooubt done whi;w showing off to the neighbours - horse that is and damaged it again when he pulled the shoe off.

A bit tough to expect her to pay but she could have said she woould pay something towards it as he had been hooning around her paddock.
 
Agree with the first posters, You should have disclosed the old injury.

As a loanee i would be livid if someone knowingly handed over a horse with an old injury without telling me, I would find that extremely shady.
 
I do think you should have told the new loaner about the injury, however to my mind that is not the key issue.

I think its absolutely unreasonable to expect the loaner to pay vets bills for a horse that went lame on the day it arrived - and yes strictly speaking there was a month's notice - but again, it happened on the day it arrived, its not as though she had it for a few months.

I think she is perfectly reasonable for wanting to send it back.
 
Missadelaide said:
Just to clarify here - I never delivered a lame horse. The horse had been sound and back in work for 8 months. I would never deliver a lame horse to somebody. He had the all clear by the vet and I was told I should have no further problems as it was a minor strain.
I moved house and had a new vet out today who clarified it as a thoroughpin.

So for those of you who think I delievered a lame horse with an ongoing issue this is not the case. Had my vet not have given the all clear, I would never have put him on loan.
Click to expand...

Although you didn't deliver a lame horse it was a horse that had suffered a bad injury which you didn't disclose.

I think it was your right to tell the new 'loaner' about his injury, not only for her sake but what about your horse? An injury like this after only 7/8 months of being sound should definiltely have been talked about prior to the loan. It would have been in the interest of your horse to disclose his injury. Who knows what kind of work the new loaner had planned for him?

We have loaned out a few and very recently a bad head shaker. We were inundated with calls and emails for him. I also found a home for my 17.2 who suffered with Navicular Syndrome so disclosing injuries and vices etc doesn't put people off loaning them, you just have to sift through all the contenders to find the right home.

I think if your new loaner had known about the injury things may have had a different outcome, perhaps she wouldn't have wanted him but there would have been somone out there who would.
:)
 
Real shame it all went arse up but flipping heck everyone - had he not pulled a shoe and gone a tad lame, she might have found a good solution to a possibly temporary problem. I do think that the injury should have been mentioned or excluded though as it was rather unfair on the horse, more than anything. It might not even be the old injury, so then where does the owner stand?

I had a loan go awry in the early days, and it was a bit awkward but OK these things happen. I took the pony back only to let her go to the same person again a month later. Re-introductions went smoothly (her gelding left my mare alone this time ;)) and the pony had eight wonderful years there, being treated like the princess she was.

Yes, you should have said something and then management and outcome might have been different. My pony was undamaged but had apparently delivered a blow to her gelding's nether parts - I was lucky I didn't get a vet's bill!
 
I agree with most posters on this thread in that really the OP should have declared the injury even if she thought the horse had recovered or not. That even applies if the horse was to be a happy hacker, even more so if the horse would be doing any jumping, fast work, or intensive schooling.
It was unfair on the loanee to be honest because they were not fully in the picture.
I also agree that the loanee should not be responsible for paying any vet fees in this instance particularly as it has occurred an injury on a leg that had previously been injured not that long ago. The loanee should have been made aware of this so that they could either decide whether to take the horse on and also agree to paying any vet bills which may occur if the injury rears its head again.
I can understand that the OP may have been in a position where they could not afford the horse, hence the reason for loaning out. But you must be honest with the people that will be taking on that horse's care as it is simply not on.
I have a horse on permanent loan and when I took the horse on I knew this. For insurance purposes he was classed as aged, as most only go to a certain age before the veteran policy kicks in.
It was not a bad injury, he had tweaked a check ligament and had had all the relevant scans and there was no damage. However I was aware of this and knew the risks which is why when I took him on 5 years ago we did very slow work to begin with and the following year we gradually upped his work. The injury never raised its head again.
The horse is now a happy hacker as age and his joints and size ( big horse) have caught up with him and he has bone spavin as well. However I have vowed to take care of him for the rest of his life and that includes health problems et al.
I do have other horses, one of which is a tb.
This winter I had to loan her out because of circumstances, moving yards and there not being a stable for her. Typical one came free before they came in for winter but I had already agreed in writing a loan term duration.
The horse was sent up to the loanee in excellent condition, coat and body wise. Her feet were due to be shod though but as a friend had been riding her and paying for her shoes I didn't think it was fair of them to pay the cost to be shod if they were going away.
My mare was going to be going barefoot anyway as she had been ridden bare in the past. It was the rider's decision that they felt she needed shoes. So the loanee had the shoes removed and feet trimmed.
I did explain that she had raced, which she had and retired sound before she became a broodmare ( before I had her).
I also explained that last year she got a kick to her gaskin area by another horse while out riding. It did swell and she had bute and was lame for a couple of days. A vet checked her and said it was just soft tissue damage and there was nothing major that had happened.
The swelling subsided and she was fine and in fact was being ridden before she went out on loan.
However when my mare returned recently she did not return anywhere near the condition that she went up in.
She was underweight and I would estimate her body score to be low. Her ribs were visible, you could just about see her backbone and even more so feel it. She had lost her topline and her backside had become very angular. She had lost condition pretty much everywhere.
She had no fat deposit at all on her tail head and the area above her vulva had sunk backwards ( she had never looked like that before). She looked a bit depressed.
Her coat was patchy and she still had winter coat in places.
She also returned heaving with lice and eggs! She had been ridden up to a day before I got her back, and no-one had noticed she had lice.
My farrier also said she was slightly pigeon toed on her fronts ( something she had never been before either shod or unshod and my own farrier has known her pretty much all the time I have had her). The loanee had been trimming her himself after being shown how to I discovered.
Luckily after vet treatment for the lice ( that she didn't like one bit), a lot of grass, tlc, conditioning feed, linseed and pink powder she has come around to somewhere near to how she was before she went out on loan.
So to the OP if you do decide to loan out again.
Be honest about the horse's injuries and thoroughly check out the loanee.
I wish I had had the time to but my circumstances didn't allow for this.
I also knew the person who was friends with the loanee and a lot of trust was therefore misplaced in both.
No matter whatever happens I will NEVER loan out a horse again!
 
brighteyes said:
It might not even be the old injury, so then where does the owner stand?
Click to expand...

When we loan out we carry on with the insurance for six months. Then if anything goes wrong we pay and claim through our own insurance. After the six months then it becomes the owners responsibility and we have to see proof of their insurance in order for them to continue the loan (yearly).

After all, at the end of the day the horse still belongs to us, we are his owners and people loaning out their horses should take this on board and remember the horse is still theirs. If they don't want the loaners running back with a lame horse then don't put it out on loan, sell it ;)
 
Hope the horse makes a good recovery and you find a super loan home. The only thing I can say who ever is right or wrong. The horse is always your responsibility health and finance etc even on a loan agreement. If we take on the responsibility of being a horse owner then I feel that is for life unless we give that ownership to someone else. Even on loan the horse is always still yours!!! So a loan agreement should not be looked upon as an answer to financial problems. Surely the owner must always be ready incase the horse should ever come back even if broken!! All argumnets over money and who pays what is a terrible crime over such a loyal trusting life long friend! It sadens me.
 
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