Loan Horse broke my back, where do I stand?

If that was in response to me, putasocinit, it IS a question that a lawyer will ask. It's about degrees of liability. Did she agree to get on the horse knowing it used to rear or did she get on not knowing that? OH used to work in the claims industry, it's one of the first questions asked in cases such as this. The car analogy is not on the same level: you do not know that an idiot driver is on the road and likely to smash into you.
 
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No experience or advice I'm afraid, but I hope you recover well & don't need any assistance.. However if that does happen, I hope you get as much help as possible xxx
 
Whatever happens know that we are all rooting for your recovery and if you want to come on her and shout a lot or well, anything really, please feel extremely free. We know that it is there but for the grace even those of us on hacking ponies and wish you all the best, both with getting whatever support you need and with getting better. Xxx
 
As some have said it could be any one of us who choose to ride ANY horse that could have ended in your situation or worse. I know you said don't mention it (insurance) but let it be a lesson to all of us...if you can't afford insurance, I don't think anyone should be riding...it's too late to go down that road, and we can't live with what ifs and maybes, but sorry, you chose to ride and you have your own personal responsibility. I don't know If legally you have a leg to stand on, I doubt it, but I hope wholeheartedly you can walk and you recover and become healthy and happy once again...it's terribly sad though and my heart goes out to you. ((0)) hugs....we all could learn from this...x
 
putasocinit said:
cptrayes - then she would be one of the millions of others who have not given all the information, however i do not believe you can hold an animal to anything, it does not have rational mentality, it also doesnt speak or sign its name to say it is cured.

i know if it was me i would be more concerned about someone who was injured and whose future might be in peril because of the injury to be covered by the insurance, than worry about me trying to get insurance again, wouldnt you, or should that person just suffer.
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I think you underestimate how stressful it would be to be sued, just as you misunderstand that although the insurance company will fight it, it IS the owner of the horse who is being sued.

I think you also naively believe that the insurance will pick up all the costs when in fact the compensation will be awarded against the owner and could exceed the insurance limit especially in a case of lifelong dependency like this one.

I think that advocating lying to the insurers is unacceptable no matter how many people may have done it.

Insurance is to cover unforeseen risk, and much as I feel for the person this accident has happened to, she willingly took the risk of riding a horse which was known to rear. I do not see from the brief details that we know, that her accident is any fault of the owner or why the owner should be put through the wringer of what could be years of courtroom battle.
 
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Putasocinit please put a sock in it!

Ill informed comments like yours are not helping. In fact they could be extremely damaging. It is this kind of "advice" that got the OP in this mess in the first place!
 
I was involved in a lawsuit relating to a horse-caused injury.
The solicitors asked for statements from absolutely everyone - the rider, any other person who'd ridden the horse recently, the owner, the previous owner as listed in passport, the YO, the YM, the owner's RI .... anyone who knew the horse was asked for "character references" about his usual behaviour in various situations. It was incredibly stressful for everyone, but the injury was life changing for the rider. She received a payout from the insurance, after court, that was equivalent to 4 years loss of earnings + medical/rehab support. Lying or misrepresenting would not have been option for anyone but the most dishonest minded.
 
OP there are two types of insurance to be concerned with.

Personal Accident insurance and public liability or third party insurance.

Personal accident insurance is a policy you take out for yourself to guard against accidental injury. A bit like life insurance or critical illness insurance there is no need to establish fault. If you have this, and it is included in BHS membership, then claim on it. It is unlikely but not impossible that there horse's owner has this cover and that it covers other people on her horse.

Public liability exists to compensate third parties in the event they are injured by your horse. So it would pay if your horse strayed onto the road and caused an accident. You MAY have a claim on the owner's policy but you will need to claim against the owner (threaten to sue them in a specific legal way) and prove negligence or statutory breach under the Animals Act. Claims like this are complex and you need proper advice on your prospects bog success.

If you don't have legal cover on an insurance policy or with membership then no win no fee agreements are still legal and available. The law has changed but the bottom line is you can still bring a claim without spending any money up front. The big change is that now your compensation can be reduced to pay your costs.
 
To the OP - very sorry to hear of your accident. How about asking for help from the Mark Davies Charity, which, I understand, can help any rider who has been injured.

As for the results of people sueing horse owners when they have fallen off and been injured - well there have been some odd results in court cases, with people coming off previously well behaved horses and the owner being successfully sued, even though they couldn't have known that the horse would misbehave. It seems that the result of every case depends on the judge. OP, you need legal advice on the particular circumstances of your accident.
 
I'm so so sorry you are in this situation, I really feel for you, have you spoke to the horses owner regarding her insurance policy ? If I was the owner I would be actively encouraging you to use my policy so you can ensure a secure future for yourself and any resulting disabilities you may have due to this accident, please take care of yourself x
 
OP I'm very sorry to read of your accident. I know you don't want anyone to criticise you not taking out personal insurance but just for anyone else who may be reading this thread and also may be considering sharing a horse, I find it incredible that you/they would read any such thing on this forum about NOT taking out insurance. Anyone else reading, of course you should!

I have an equine business and am insured to the hilt. No-one has ever injured themselves on any of my horses but never the less I continue to hold very high insurance cover that would well and truly satisfy any claim which may be made against my business.

I think you should speak to the owner of the horse to see exactly what type of insurance she has/had for her rider. Maybe ask her to review her policy and see exactly what is covered and what isn't. I can't actually believe she hasn't already tbh, that would have been the first thing I'd be looking at if I was in her situation.
 
So sorry to hear about your accident ,but the human body has amazing powers of recovery. With regard to the insurance issue. You need expert help.You need a good lawyer,not the HHO forum. If I may give an example of why.It has been argued here regarding telling the truth. However a good lawyer would have explained that whilst you must tell the truth ,the whole truth and nothing but the truth,it is the last part that generaly trips people up unnecessarily. If you have no DIRECT knowledge of this horse rearing previously ,it is merely heresay. You also have no knowlege as to whether the horse may have been cured and this could be due to somthing entirely different eg a kissing spine .There could even have been a previous back problem ,which everyone thought was a rearing problem . This problem might have reoccurred. This would not make the animal dangerous ,merely unlucky. Words are tricky things,even your title is wrong. Loan horse did not break your back. Your back was broken whilst riding a loan horse. There is a difference believe me. That is why you need a good lawyer. I wish you all speed with your recovery,I do have some idea what you are going through.
 
I dont know where you stand legally but I just wanted to share my experience.

A very similar thing happened to me. I was lied to about a horse I had on loan, it bolted (something it was known for!) and I came off and fractured my spine. I wasnt supposed to recover, but through massive amounts of very painful rehab I did. I am in pain every single day and there are lots of things I will never be able to do now. But I'm walking and talking and finally back working part time now and for that I'm grateful :)

Everyone told me to sue but I decided to put my energy into rehabbing myself. I was categorically told in Jan of this year that I wouldnt recover. I refused to accept that and now I walk my dogs a couple of hours a day, and am just about to start riding again :D Sometimes if you want it badly enough and work hard enough, incredible things are possible :D
 
Dexter so good to read of your progress, you must have worked so hard hope your good progress continues.

OP do hope you get specialist rehab to aid recovery as far as it is possible. Thinking of you and sending Positive vibes.
 
Thanks everyone for your kinds words and helpful advice. I hope to get onto the hospitals computer to thoroughly read and digest each post as reading on my phone is quite the struggle. I'll be drafting an email to the Bhs too. It was never ever a question of affording insurance. I was loaning this year purely to gain experience and further my knowledge so I'd be more prepared for when I came to fulfil my lifetimes ambition of owning my own horse in a year or too.
I can't face contact with the owner just now, I have family and friends that have offered to do this on my behalf and feel that would be the less distressing option for me.
I hope I can walk one day, at the moment I'd settle for being able to balance on my bum without wobbling or falling flat on my face.
Once again, thankyou.
 
Spring Feather said:
OP I'm very sorry to read of your accident. I know you don't want anyone to criticise you not taking out personal insurance but just for anyone else who may be reading this thread and also may be considering sharing a horse, I find it incredible that you/they would read any such thing on this forum about NOT taking out insurance. Anyone else reading, of course you should!
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I have home insurance, car insurance, lorry insurance, third party liability for both horses (and anyone handling them not cover by other insurance), vet fee insurance.

I dont have personal injury insurance for myself. I dont think that many owners DO have this insurance. The cover is limited and it is fairly high cost.

I ask sharers to sign a disclaimer that riding is a high risk sport, horses are unpredictable, and that I have recommended they take out personal accident insurance as they are not covered for personal injury under my insurance.
 
Personal accident cover is included with BHS membership. It is limited but cheap.

Please be aware that disclaimers cannot act to absolve you of liability in negligence and certainly won't work in circumstances of statutory breach. All they can do is act as evidence of a conversation between the parties where risks were flagged.
 
Kat said:
Personal accident cover is included with BHS membership. It is limited but cheap.

Please be aware that disclaimers cannot act to absolve you of liability in negligence and certainly won't work in circumstances of statutory breach. All they can do is act as evidence of a conversation between the parties where risks were flagged.
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Thanks, I have British Dressage and British Endurance membership already.

Thanks, I am aware a disclaimer doesnt absolve me of liability in negligence and feel it shouldnt.

e.g. If I was to get bucked off the day before, not tell sharer, and she got bucked off and injured, morally I should be liable for my actions.
 
I know my insurance company would only cover someone riding my horse who was doing so with my permission and not in conjunction with any financial transaction. Hence I could let a friend ride, but any paying sharer would not be insured under my policy. My old insurance company would only insure members of my immediate family to ride. It is something I have specifically asked when taking out policies.

If someone was to ride my horse with my permission, and was injured they could then try to sue me at which point my legal cover could come into play. However if I had declared the horses history then I would not automatically expect a case to be successful. As far as I am aware to date the courts have tended to view that riders know the sport to be risky and to involve an unpredictable animal. Generally we ride at our own risk. If I had assured you the horse was 100% bombproof and I knew you were a complete novice it is possible they may take a different view (i.e. a negligent failure to inform of a possible risk of significant injury). Most of the cases I am aware of have involved dealers and the general public trying horses with a view to buy and becoming injured, and those people undergoing tuition at the time, and one working pupil, so slightly different. None were successful in court, though two settled outside court to save legal fees which would have been disproportionate to the claim for injury.

ETA: witnessed correctly drawn up disclaimers are useful to avoid any debate regarding a "negligent failure to inform" argument at a later date, so although they do not cover you completely they are still worth doing.
 
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bouncing_ball said:
I have home insurance, car insurance, lorry insurance, third party liability for both horses (and anyone handling them not cover by other insurance), vet fee insurance.

I dont have personal injury insurance for myself. I dont think that many owners DO have this insurance. The cover is limited and it is fairly high cost.

I ask sharers to sign a disclaimer that riding is a high risk sport, horses are unpredictable, and that I have recommended they take out personal accident insurance as they are not covered for personal injury under my insurance.
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Well yes I have those household/vehicle insurances too but I run an equine business so I have business insurance and anyone riding any horse of mine, for free or paying, are covered should they cause an accident to anyone else or their property and also themselves. I hold high personal injury insurance given the nature of my job/business. I also have insurance waiver forms signed by anyone who has any contact with any horse and these waivers are still held in fairly high standing in my country at the moment. I also have a fairly hefty business and personal insurance cover from the Equestrian Federation of my country. I like to be well covered as you can tell :)
 
I'm so sorry for what has happened to you but riding is defined as a high risk sport. So liability for any owner in this situation is actually very limited especially if you (OP) are an adult. If you knew that the horse had reared in the past and you still got on it you've accepted that as a possible risk you are willing to take. I certainly would go to a good lawyer before making any claim as you may lose and if you are out of the remit of the small claims have costs awarded against you. Get good professional advice before going thru the extra trauma of a court case .
 
I'd just like to thank HM for posting and I do hope she recovers soon. She certainly has guts and I'm sure she will fight this through and come through it.

Secondly, what a useful thread! Everyone on here should read it. I'm probably over insured and generally under claim but have been surprised at what the insurers will sometimes pay out for so it is always worth a try.

But do get advice and do take trouble over the claim with lots of research and supporting evidence. Insurers do not like to be seen to be refusing to pay out on legitimate claims, whatever some might think, as it is bad for their credibility.
 
Firstly I hope that you recover , i cant imagine what you are going through.

this has made me think though. I am just about to let a disabled child start riding one of my ponies now and then. I had verbally made it clear to her Mum that she is responsible for the child. i dont have insurance and am now thinking that I should do something before she comes. The ponies arent insured and we dont have household insurance so dont know where to start. There is no money changing hands either. Does she need to insure or do I or both ?
 
maree t said:
Firstly I hope that you recover , i cant imagine what you are going through.

this has made me think though. I am just about to let a disabled child start riding one of my ponies now and then. I had verbally made it clear to her Mum that she is responsible for the child. i dont have insurance and am now thinking that I should do something before she comes. The ponies arent insured and we dont have household insurance so dont know where to start. There is no money changing hands either. Does she need to insure or do I or both ?
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Does the equestrian body in the UK give insurance to its members as standard? In my country it does so most people doing what you do ask the riders to join the equine federation and then they automatically get cover.
 
henmother said:
Hello all.
To cut a long story short a "reformed rearer" went up and over on me and broke my back, my ribs- two in two places and punctured my lungs.
Stupidly I have no Insurance, only because after looking through threads it seemed that if you pay, eg share a horse, then Insurance is null and void? Not to mention the fact that one of my employers would pay me full pay / then half pay so I always thought if i did break an arm / Leg I'd be fine. Never in a million years did I think I'd be wondering if Ill ever walk again thanks to a horse!!
My owner has, I understand Insurance in the form of Third Party /Vets Fees. Now would I be covered under Third party bit because I pay to share the horse?
My Local Authority will pay/contribute to adapting my home to be wheelchair accesible however it is means tested. I am terrified that I may not qualify for any assistance and have to pay for the work myself, I know a wheelchair lift alone can cost 10k plus :(
Understand I do not want to "sue" the owner , I just need to prepare myself for the impending costs. Please do not criticise either becasue I didnt have Insurance. Do you think, I'd be eligible for assistance through my owners Insurance, would rather find out here, if anyone has any experience of this situation if its a flat out NO and not have to bother her, or if its a maybe YES then thats the road I'll have to regretablly travel should I have to pay for the adaptions myself.
Thank you and thanks for reading.
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Did you have a loan agreement? If so, did it mention the rearing and that the owner cannot be held responsible if you were to become injured whilst riding this horse?

You need to speak to a solicitor who is experienced with insurance and if you do have a loan agreement I'd be looking at what i signed in it and getting a solicitor to have a look to.
 
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