Loan horse saddle/back issues - what do i do?

[confusedrider]

Hi, I'm in a bit of a pickle. I do have an account on here but don't know if horses owner is also a poster/member so sticking to the safe side.

I have a horse on loan and I love the horse to bits. However the last couple of weeks horse has become increasingly girthy, first lifting the hind legs but now it has progressed to kicking out quite badly with the hind legs.

Other liverys are telling me not to spend money getting the horses back/saddle checked as it isn't mine. I don't think that the horses saddle fits properly, it is quite old and creaky, not much flocking and wears a thick sheep skin half pad under the saddle.

I feel so awful tacking up and riding horse with a such a saddle and with such obvious indicators that horse is not comfortable.

So what do i do? There is nothing in loan contract about saddle fit etc, only that i must provide vet & hoof care. Is it my responsibility to pay for the saddler/back person or is this on the owner? I would not mind paying the call out fee to have both checked however if the saddle is said to NOT fit and horse needs a new one, then where do i stand? Is it me who should fork out for a new/used one? I've been looking at the thorowgood t4 synthetics on ebay as i could have it altered to fit if i do end up having to get one.

I have no idea whether I should even approach the owner or just sort it all out myself.

Thanks for reading cookies for all who got this far! :-(

 

[*hic*]

Why not get the horse's saddle checked so you know where you stand? Then you can contact the owner if there's a problem that's not easily rectified by the saddle fitter and see what s/he wants to do.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Your first phonecall should be to the owner imo. Tell her that the horse is having problems. Then, as in your loan contract, call the vet at your expense. If the vet diagnoses a back problem, s/he may recommend a course of physio treatment or something else. I would expect this to be at your expense as well, unless there is a clause to the contrary in your loan agreement.
If you have done more work with the horse, it is likely that he will have changed shape while you have had him, so his saddle may not fit. You may be able to come to some arrangement with the owner about payment for a new saddle. If you buy one yourself, of course, it will stay with you when the horse goes back home.
I will add that if I were the owner, I would not be happy that you appear to be more bothered about the financial aspect of this than about the horse's welfare. You certainly should NOT be putting the saddle on the horse until you've had him checked.

 

[WelshD]

I agree. call the owner first and ask them for their advice on the situation

They may well be mortified and offer immediately to attend with a saddler, they may not care at all but the last thing you want to do is call them and say that their saddle is rubbish and you have had it checked out as this will get their back up straight away

Speak to them before doing anything

 

[smellsofhorse]

If this horse is on full loan and this wasn't an obvious pre existing condition then its your responsibility to sort it.

Yes tell.owner and they may help with costs but they shouldn't have to.

If you buy a new saddle it will be yours to keep when the horse goes back, it won't have to go with horse.

It does annoy me when the loaner says its.not their responsibility.
I think it is.
You have a horse that is your responsibility, you didnt pay the purchase fee but its up to you to take year of everything else for the horse.

 

[confusedrider]

Your first phonecall should be to the owner imo. Tell her that the horse is having problems. Then, as in your loan contract, call the vet at your expense. If the vet diagnoses a back problem, s/he may recommend a course of physio treatment or something else. I would expect this to be at your expense as well, unless there is a clause to the contrary in your loan agreement.
If you have done more work with the horse, it is likely that he will have changed shape while you have had him, so his saddle may not fit. You may be able to come to some arrangement with the owner about payment for a new saddle. If you buy one yourself, of course, it will stay with you when the horse goes back home.
I will add that if I were the owner, I would not be happy that you appear to be more bothered about the financial aspect of this than about the horse's welfare. You certainly should NOT be putting the saddle on the horse until you've had him checked.

I'm actually very offended - of course its not about the bloody money! I've paid out so much for this horse already - bought rugs, boots, supplements had the vet out a few times. There's no need to jump in being so darn judgmental when you know nothing when i'm only asking for some advice as i don't know where i stand. The horse wants for nothing and I have its best interests at heart.

I've been looking around at saddle fitters for a couple of days but i'm having so many conflicting recommendations i don't know who i should get out. I'll give the owner a call tonight about it, I've not ridden since Sunday anyway due to slight lameness, not nodding but just doesn't look quite right.

Thanks Welsh D/Jemima for the advice

 

[9tails]

Other liverys are telling me not to spend money getting the horses back/saddle checked as it isn't mine. I don't think that the horses saddle fits properly, it is quite old and creaky, not much flocking and wears a thick sheep skin half pad under the saddle.

I feel so awful tacking up and riding horse with a such a saddle and with such obvious indicators that horse is not comfortable.

Would you ride your own horse if it were giving you obvious indicators of discomfort? Other liveries aren't the ones that are going to be bucked off when the horse decides you're not listening. Call the owner and let her know what is happening, I'd say a new saddle is your responsibility but of course it will be yours to keep at the end of the loan unless the owner wnats to buy it off you. Keep the old saddle to send back with the horse of course.

 

[Costypop]

Call the owner first.

But I've had similar experience to yours, owner offered to halves on treatment and a new saddle, which I did, but after spending £1000 on treatments and a new (secondhand) saddle she wanted the horse back because she missed him and her OH said he will pay for the horses up keep. I was left heavily out of pocket, and on top of that, horse had 2 lots of jabs, was schooled and had been out too shows.

 

[AmyMay]

Your first phonecall should be to the owner imo. Tell her that the horse is having problems. Then, as in your loan contract, call the vet at your expense. If the vet diagnoses a back problem, s/he may recommend a course of physio treatment or something else. I would expect this to be at your expense as well, unless there is a clause to the contrary in your loan agreement.
If you have done more work with the horse, it is likely that he will have changed shape while you have had him, so his saddle may not fit. You may be able to come to some arrangement with the owner about payment for a new saddle. If you buy one yourself, of course, it will stay with you when the horse goes back home.

Brilliant advice.

 

[Mithras]

I'm actually very offended - of course its not about the bloody money! I've paid out so much for this horse already - bought rugs, boots, supplements had the vet out a few times. There's no need to jump in being so darn judgmental when you know nothing when i'm only asking for some advice as i don't know where i stand. The horse wants for nothing and I have its best interests at heart.

Except a well fitting saddle? This is what having horses entails. They tend to need things like rugs, boots, saddles, and vets on occasion. If you don't want to spend on a horse that isn't yours, then perhaps it would be better to buy your own? But surely you must have saved something in loaning a horse and not buying one (ie the purchase price), so spend that on a saddle so you can enjoy riding? Theres not much point in having a horse you don't enjoy riding.

Most loan contracts specify that the loanee is responsible for these things. I think it would be rare to find a loan where a horse is provided free of charge, along with the owner continuing to pay for anything that might be needed. It might be that the horse was out of work before it came to you, or ridden only occasionally, so that the poorly fitting saddle wasn't so much of an issue.

Its the same when anyone gets a new horse. You hope that your existing tack will fit, but have to be prepared to lay out for new stuff if it doesn't.

 

[lottiepony]

I personally think that if you loan a horse (not share) then everything becomes your responsibility. I would phone the owner explain the situation and what you are planning to do about it. As someone said before the owner might be very kind and agree to pay etc.

A friend recently took on a horse on loan and they bought her a new saddle as weren't happy with her original one. If the horse ever goes back they will keep the saddle so wont be missing out as you can always sell a second hand saddle

 

[confusedrider]

I personally think that if you loan a horse (not share) then everything becomes your responsibility. I would phone the owner explain the situation and what you are planning to do about it. As someone said before the owner might be very kind and agree to pay etc.

A friend recently took on a horse on loan and they bought her a new saddle as weren't happy with her original one. If the horse ever goes back they will keep the saddle so wont be missing out as you can always sell a second hand saddle

Thankyou - I was prepared to pay for a saddle/fitting until everyone on my yard (literally) said that it wasn't my responsibility .. I've never full loaned before so I'm not asking because I want to get out of paying, but I genuinely do not know who that responsibility lies with.
Going to ask my YO tonight which saddler she uses and see if i can get them out. Will probably just stick to lunging/in hand walks until I get this sorted..

 

[MotherOfChickens]

wont be missing out as you can always sell a second hand saddle

for alot less than you paid for it. I think alot depends on how long you've had the loan, your specific loan agreement and how long you expect to have him tbh but a call to the owner is your first port of call.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

I would also agree that as the horse is on full loan you would be expected to cover all costs including the purchase of a more suitable saddle if needed. In your position though I would mention it to the owner and perhaps say you just wanted to check in with the owner about it as your contract doesn't mention tack at all. I would avoid getting into a situation where you and the owner go halves on a new saddle as it'll be difficult to get any money back when the loan ends. Much better to pay for the saddle yourself so you can sell it on when the loan ends.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

This isn't the 'proper' thing to do and I expect I'll be shot for it, but anyway...

What I'd do is borrow my friends saddles and find something that's a reasonable fit (yes I can tell for myself), then look for the same on ebay. Assuming you're not an endurance rider or asking peak performance from your horse in competition or training, then 'a good fit' is good enough IMO and there's no need to spend a fortune on 'perfection'.

This has nothing to do with it being a loan horse and finances (though I don't see the point of wasting money, its true). It's to do with my lack of faith in saddlers and my experiences of how most of them seem to try to sell you what they've got on the van, regardless of whether its best for the horse. Or else if they know they're not going to get a sale, they'll tell you what you want to hear and say they can adjust the current saddle to fit better, then you find out 'fit better' doesn't actually mean 'it fits'!

What I wouldn't do is go halves on a saddle with the horses owner. If you spend out any money, you want to be able to keep the saddle when the horse goes back.

 

[9tails]

everyone on my yard (literally) said that it wasn't my responsibility

Is it full loan? Without owner having anything to do with the day-to-day care of the horse? The full loans on my yard act exactly like ownership, the loaner takes on responsibility for everything.

 

[Embo]

My horse is full loan and I paid for his new saddle & back treatment myself. The only thing I asked his owner about is if I could get rid of the old one!

He is on permanent full loan to me and the owner isn't interested in getting involved with the decisions. That and it states in contract that I am responsible for absolutely everything. However, if you know you may be giving the horse back at some point or if the owner wants to be involved then I would say you need to contact her first.

 

[wench]

Just get a saddle fitter out yourself. The call outs don't tend to be very expensive, and a look at a saddle to see if it fits or not should cost £20-£40.

 

[mandwhy]

I don't know why you are getting harsh responses really, you are just not sure where you stand. I had a horse on LWVTB whose saddle didn't fit. Basically I said it didn't and owner said it was fine, in the end I said I want to get fitter to check as I was sure he would at least benefit from minor flocking adjustments. Unfortunately I got chucked off the horse the day before I had the fitter out - who knows if it was down to the saddle or not but I'd say the moral of the story is not to ride if you think something isn't right - you have to look after your own safety and a lot of people will tell you to do things when they don't have to put themselves at risk! I was severely injured and had to send the horse back as it took 6 months for my arm to work properly again. For the sake of a 40 quid fitting I have no idea why I didn't get it sorted as soon as I had even an inkling.

No one would want to be in the situation where they had spent hundreds on a new saddle and then the horse is taken back (especially if they had to buy new which i would avoid!) So I think the idea of a thorowgood or something could work. Find a fitter who stocks synthetics (many dont) and either get one from them or discuss finding one to have fitted. There are different types eg cob, normal, high wither... So it would be a good idea to discuss it.

I wouldn't loan again personally (apart from my tiny companion) as frankly I do feel differently about money I spend and nice horses can be bought fairly cheaply these days.

P.s. also lots of fitters take part exchange - thats what I would have done as the owner obviously didn't want a saddle that wasn't being used (she wanted to sell it with the horse in this case) so was happy to work something out.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Hi, I'm in a bit of a pickle. I do have an account on here but don't know if horses owner is also a poster/member so sticking to the safe side.


Other liverys are telling me not to spend money getting the horses back/saddle checked as it isn't mine.

I feel so awful tacking up and riding horse with a such a saddle and with such obvious indicators that horse is not comfortable.

So what do i do? There is nothing in loan contract about saddle fit etc, only that i must provide vet & hoof care. Is it my responsibility to pay for the saddler/back person or is this on the owner? I would not mind paying the call out fee to have both checked however if the saddle is said to NOT fit and horse needs a new one, then where do i stand? Is it me who should fork out for a new/used one? I've been looking at the thorowgood t4 synthetics on ebay as i could have it altered to fit if i do end up having to get one.

:-(

The fact that you had logged on with a new user-name in case the owner is a member and the sentences that I have quoted led me to think that you really did not want to buy a new saddle. I can only comment on what you have written, you did not say until later that you had already paid for jabs etc - which is what most loaners are expected to do and, I understand is in your contract?
I would have thought that the most important aspect of any loan arrangement would be communication between the parties, not trying to hide information.

 

[confusedrider]

The fact that you had logged on with a new user-name in case the owner is a member and the sentences that I have quoted led me to think that you really did not want to buy a new saddle. I can only comment on what you have written, you did not say until later that you had already paid for jabs etc - which is what most loaners are expected to do and, I understand is in your contract?
I would have thought that the most important aspect of any loan arrangement would be communication between the parties, not trying to hide information.

No, more because I wouldn't want them to see this and think i was slagging them off about the saddle fit or anything like that. I didn't want to go to the owner and ask about it before knowing whether it was one of my responsibilities - judging by the responses here it is mine and that is perfectly okay - i just wanted to make sure before spending money on the horse. The contract is up in the next 1-2 months and I would like to continue loaning said horse if owner agrees. Of course no one wants to spend money buying a new saddle unless NECESSARY and in this case it may be necessary which I have NO problem with, I will buy a saddle if horse needs it.

I've not posted this to be slated for I was merely asking for advice, people get their backs up far too much on here. What is wrong with being polite and stating 'Yes, it is one of your responsibilities as a loaner to make sure the saddle fits, not with the owner. It doesn't cost much for a saddle fitter to come out'

Well thanks for the other polite replies, I will sort getting the saddle checked as soon as I can.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

No, more because I wouldn't want them to see this and think i was slagging them off about the saddle fit or anything like that. I didn't want to go to the owner and ask about it before knowing whether it was one of my responsibilities - judging by the responses here it is mine and that is perfectly okay - i just wanted to make sure before spending money on the horse. The contract is up in the next 1-2 months and I would like to continue loaning said horse if owner agrees. Of course no one wants to spend money buying a new saddle unless NECESSARY and in this case it may be necessary which I have NO problem with, I will buy a saddle if horse needs it.

I've not posted this to be slated for I was merely asking for advice, people get their backs up far too much on here. What is wrong with being polite and stating 'Yes, it is one of your responsibilities as a loaner to make sure the saddle fits, not with the owner. It doesn't cost much for a saddle fitter to come out'

Well thanks for the other polite replies, I will sort getting the saddle checked as soon as I can.

If your contract is up in the next month or so perhaps it's worth confirming whether the owner is happy to continue loaning the horse to you before spending out on the saddle.

 

[zaminda]

My pony has been out on loan on a number of occasions and is currently out on loan. In the past I have bought new saddles when required, but generally find that the people who have him get his back and saddle checked as they would with their own horse, and pay to have it reflocked etc. Personally I would get the horses back and saddle checked, I am lucky in that my chiropractor is also a saddle fitter, and then go from there. The people who currently have my pony are very happy with him, but I think they have bought him a new saddle, or are using one they had fitted that wasn't mine, and have his back done regularly.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

people get their backs up far too much on here. What is wrong with being polite and stating 'Yes, it is one of your responsibilities as a loaner to make sure the saddle fits, not with the owner. It doesn't cost much for a saddle fitter to come out'

Well thanks for the other polite replies, I will sort getting the saddle checked as soon as I can.

They certainly do!
If you can show me where I was rude to you in my original reply I will happily apologise.

Of course if you had contacted the owner first about her horse, you wouldn't have had to worry about her seeing your post, she would have known what was going on.

 

[MissTyc]

I have a dressage horse on loan to me. When we started having saddle problems I called the owner. I paid for a saddle fitter to come out, then we considered: 1) me buying new saddle, old saddle goes back with horse; 2) part exchanging the old saddle for new, new saddle goes back with horse. This seemed the most sensible course of action, so owner and I split the costs of the new saddle after part ex. I then treated horse to two chiro sessions as I needed him to feel better in his work.

Owner and I are both adults, neither of us have much money and both of us have other horses to think of - so we considered the options and came up with the cheapest plan all round that would also most benefit the horse long term.

 

[Lizzie66]

They certainly do!
If you can show me where I was rude to you in my original reply I will happily apologise.

Of course if you had contacted the owner first about her horse, you wouldn't have had to worry about her seeing your post, she would have known what was going on.

To be honest you were rude. You said she was more bothered by the money than the horses welfare. Nowhere in her post did the OP say this, she said she was happy to pay to get saddle & back checked but didn't know whether she would be responsible for buying a new saddle.

If I were loaning a horse I would expect to pay for its care and wear and tear on any kit supplied (and OP has said she expects this as well), but I would definitely have discussion with the owner if it was decided the saddle needed replacing. This is too important (and expensive) a piece of kit to be buying without input from the owner.

Apart from anything if I were loaning a horse out I would want to know if the loanee was thinking of having a new saddle as there are some saddlers out there that I would prefer didn't touch my horse with a bargepole !

 

[Pearlsasinger]

To be honest you were rude. You said she was more bothered by the money than the horses welfare. Nowhere in her post did the OP say this, she said she was happy to pay to get saddle & back checked but didn't know whether she would be responsible for buying a new saddle.

;


This is what I actually said:

"I would not be happy that you appear to be more bothered about the financial aspect of this than about the horse's welfare."

It is always best if any OP re-reads what they have written to make sure that they are giving the impression that they intend, also it is a good idea to include all salient points (such as that the loan is due to finish in 1-2 months) in case they change the impression given.

 

[shmoo]

I think its a valid question.

I loan one of mine, who arrived in just her shoes and I had to equip her fully - so theres no grey area at all and I know where I stand. I also pay for everything, feet, teeth, jabs, back, vets etc. Again I know where I stand. She wants for nothing, thats my way.

Personally if I had loaned a fully equipped horse with the agreement stating unkeep of feet only I would question it - but probably not on a forum first - maybe approaching the owner would have been a wiser move? Some owners like to retain control of routine veterinary care, teeth and back to make sure its being done. The owner may want to replace the saddle if it doesn't fit as if the horse is suddenly returned she'll need to do it anyway?? She may want a certain make?

Of course she might not give a stuff - you'll only know if you contact her.

For the record I don't think anyone was being rude to anyone. This isn't a beat around the bush forum. Its direct, to the point with some very good advice. I've asked enough idiot questions in the past to work that one out. We're all here because ultimately we care about our horses.

Talk to the owner, if it was me I'd be buying the saddle myself - although you may not be getting a new Albion if I did...

 

[*Maddy&Occhi*]

My horse is full loan and I paid for his new saddle & back treatment myself. The only thing I asked his owner about is if I could get rid of the old one!

He is on permanent full loan to me and the owner isn't interested in getting involved with the decisions. That and it states in contract that I am responsible for absolutely everything. However, if you know you may be giving the horse back at some point or if the owner wants to be involved then I would say you need to contact her first.

Exactly the same as me

I bought my (permanent) full loan mare a brand new wardrobe, including a new saddle. If her owner were to ever take her back, the stuff I bought her I keep, no doubt about that! We have stated in our loan contract the equipment she came with, in which I obviously still have and always will, but I use my own equipment.

In terms of vet bills etc, I am responsible for, which again is stated in our contract. I am the full loan after all so it is my responsibility.

 

[Caramac71]

We had to get back checked / new saddle fitted not long after taking our pony on full loan. I didnt even consider it not to be our expensive to be honest - but as it coincided with pony's jabs and dental check the owner suggested she pay for the routine health stuff and we pay for the back/saddle which I thought was very generous!

Our saddler suggested over the phone what saddle to get (second hand) so that when he arrived he could just fit the new saddle in one visit rather than two, and save us a bit of money on call outs.