Loan mare - who owns the foal?

[Worried1]

OK - I think I could be in a very tricky situation.

Maddie has been on loan to a small private stud for 3 years, I did offer the option for them to buy her at £1,500 but we spoke about exchanging for a foal instead so she went on loan, in that time she has had two foals.

We had a written loan agreement and a verbal agreement that we would exchange Maddie for a foal when we had moved and were in a position to take another youngster.

We moved last year and I sent a courtesy email saying we had moved and my position had not changed - I would not like Maddie back as long as they were happy to continue to loan her. I did however say that I would like to proceed with exchanging Maddie for a foal.

After several emails we agreed that they would pay for a stud fee but I would be responsible for ordering the semen and non routine vet's fees etc.

Or I could have a Demostrator 3-y-o filly as a straight swap - which was later advertised in H&H for £4,000. I declined the offer of the filly as we have a yard full at the moment.

It was during this last email that they said that on insemination, sucessful or not, Maddie would become theirs.
I disputed this and said that I would exchange Maddie on weaning of the foal for which I would arrange collection.

Since then I haven't heard anything, I have sent two more emails a text and a phone call and left a message.

I am now very worried as prior to the foal being born I was able to give notice and collect Maddie, as technically the foal would be mine, however now it has been born I think my position has changed. If Maddie stays with them till weaning I will not be able to proceed with my original plan of putting her in foal for next year but will have to wait another year.

I am happy to have Maddie back - I have owned her since a foal, but my aim was to have a foal from her next year and as I have no issue with the care she had received I was happy to exchange her, confident she would be happy and looked after.

Obviously I am going to have to seek legal help but I just wondered if anyone had any similar experiences or could advise me in the hope we can settle this rather than going down the legal route?

 

[Maesfen]

I might be being thick here, but from what you have written, it sounds like you were going to exchange Maddie for a foal, thereby letting the stud have Maddie in exchange, is that right?
If that's the case, why were you paying anything towards actually getting that foal, that should have been up to the stud unless you specified a different stallion to be used from the one they would have used themselves I would have thought?
They are certainly in the wrong to say whatever the outcome, Maddie would be theirs; that shouldn't happen until the foal you are having is weaned, surely although I understand they would possibly want to cover her this year too which is natural.
Is the stud far from you, could you not visit and sort this out face to face? If you do, remember to take someone with you not only for moral support but as a witness too, also take all your loan agreement to back you up.

 

[Worried1]

It is complicated and I probably haven't made it that clear sorry -

She is in Northhampton - about 2 hour drive from me in Kent. Basically, she went off to stud as a maiden. We were not sure she would take or even be a good mum so we discussed in the future about possibly having a foal and them keeping Maddie in exchange.

She has had two foals, (the second being born this year) we agreed that she would be put back into foal this year with a stallion of my choice and I would take a healthy foal in exchange for Maddie.

I have been trying anf failing to talk to them about ordering the semen but they have failed to acknowledge any of my calls, texts, etc.

I think they are hoping I will go away...

My worry is that they will not honour our agreement, I will miss her season, fail to get her in foal and I will end up footing the bill for her stud fees next year and be powerless to get her back till they wean the foal.

 

[ihatework]

Sounds like a very dodgy situation.

In your shoes I would do the following:

Send a registered letter and outline your agreement. I would offer the loaners 3 options
1) you have one of Maddies foals already on the ground (that is if you want one)
2) they pay you the £1500 pounds for Maddie
3) they cover all costs of Maddies 3rd foal (stallion of your choice within an agreed stud fee) and ownership of Maddie transfers to them when live foal on ground

Tell them you expect a response within X days.
If you don't hear from them drive up and collect the mare and terminate loan agreement.

ETS - thinking about it picking her up now might be tricky with a foal at foot as technically that foal belongs to them, so you might have to wait until weaning.

 

[Worried1]

Thank you - am sending a letter out today pointing out the original agreement, along with a copy and will give them 7 days to respond, and that failure to do this will result in me collecting the mare.

To be honest I am gutted and feel I have been taken completely for a ride. I have been a great 'owner' visiting once a year and then again to see the foal and sending the odd email or text to keep in touch.

Have not hassled them at all in anyway - more fool me

 

[koeffee]

sorry you have had such a hard time we are not all like that!hope all works out ok for you

 

[JanetGeorge]

[ QUOTE ]
sorry you have had such a hard time we are not all like that!hope all works out ok for you

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto! I have had a number of mares on loan for breeding (with a detailed agreement) and in the one case to date where a mare returned to the owner - in foal - the owner paid the stud fee and vet costs for getting the mare in foal - but of course got the mare back with the foal in utero!

What they are suggesting - if I understand you correctly - is that you pay stud fee and vet's costs for a foal which will then be yours in exchange for the mare!! The only cost to them would be keep of the mare while she's rearing the foal THEY keep!! I don't think anyone would think that is fair or reasonable!!

I would write to them saying that you WILL exchange the mare for a foal IF - and only if - they pay the costs relating to that foal and that you are happy with the condition and quality of that foal. Otherwise you will have your mare back!!

Of course, how easy or hard this will end up being depends a bit on the precise wording of your loan agreement. Do you have a 'termination of loan' clause covering carious reasons for you to terminate the loan??

 

[Ladyfresha1]

Could you pm me and let me where abouts in northampton she is? You don't have to say the name of the stud but I am up that way and would want to avoid dealings with these sorts of people!