"Loan" situation - advice?

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Spirit3106

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Hi,
I have been doing a kind of loan/share situation the past 5 months with a woman who has her own horses, where the agreement was for me to ride one of the horses 2x a week, €50. He's 5yo, but he's fairly laid back and really willing and tries hard for you. Unlike the last part loan situation I had though, I would always ride when the owner is there (either out on a hack together or she'd supervise in the arena).

Over the summer this was working fairly well. She is really helpful and would often give advice, even giving me lunge lessons etc,. Occasionally we would just do exercise work though, taking the horses out on the road for fitness and hill work, which I didn't really mind. We were also doing things like field canters, she'd give me dressage tests to learn and perform, I was also supposed to be starting doing some jumping with the horse.

About a month ago though, we had an incident where on one of the hacks, the 5yo horse I ride got very spooked by some cows, and we were on a steep hill, so I dismounted. Since then, I've ridden that horse maybe 2-3 times, all without issues, but the owner has now mainly taken to me riding her daughter's cob. He's 12hh (slightly too small for me weight-wise), extremely lazy (though I can't blame him and don't like to push him, given I'm adult-sized) and originally I didn't mind doing it the odd time, if the owner was sick/busy I could ride the cob and potter around a bit.

Recently though, I've been feeling a bit discouraged. The last few weeks have nearly exclusively consisted of the two of us bringing the horses out on the road for hacking, her on the 5yo and me on the cob. We basically never go off-road, so it's just walking and trotting.

Now, I'm not from a horsey family. I will jump through any hoops and take absolutely any opportunity to ride, but lately I feel like I'm just exercising her daughter's pony for her (+ I bring the horses in, tack them, brush/bathe after, also help with bits like filling water), and paying for the privilege to do so. I don't mind scheduling the rides so that she is able to be there. I don't mind doing the chores. I don't mind even if the odd day is just focusing on getting the horses' out to get their legs stretched. But today I'm just really discouraged by all these things together.

Does this seem typical, or am I being taken advantage of a bit? I'm certainly not the strongest rider, but I would be confident that my role there is nearly more akin to hired help than that of a paying loaner! Last Saturday I went, rode the cob, gave them both a wash, paid the owner, and then she and her daughter took the two horses (that I paid to exercise and wash!) off to a fun ride. And really, I love the family and the horses, I've built a very good relationship there with the owner and felt I was progressing so much, but I'm just wondering if this is how it's going to continue, is it worth staying with them? Would it be fair to ask for more variety, or even just to keep riding the horse I originally started with? Thank you ❤️
 
I think she has probably panicked that you could have got hurt or lost your confidence and feels that as winter approaches and the horses get perhaps more spicy, you might not cope. Perhaps she likes you too and doesn’t want to end the arrangement for your sake, so is giving you the ‘safe’ option to ride and a ‘safe’ experience.

Talk to her?
 
maya2008 said:
I think she has probably panicked that you could have got hurt or lost your confidence and feels that as winter approaches and the horses get perhaps more spicy, you might not cope. Perhaps she likes you too and doesn’t want to end the arrangement for your sake, so is giving you the ‘safe’ option to ride and a ‘safe’ experience.

Talk to her?
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I think that's definitely a possibility! I have asked if I can ride the horse again on my next day up there (Saturday) so I'll have to see how it goes. She was saying something about doing arena work which would be nice. I just wasn't sure if I was being irrational and if I should consider discussing it in more depth with her.
 
I dont think youre being irrational and do think you should discuss all this with her properly.

I dont think youre being taken advantage of necessarily. It sounds like the owner has been great with you previously.

You just need to have a proper conversation to get you both back on track.
 
Jenko109 said:
I dont think youre being irrational and do think you should discuss all this with her properly.

I dont think youre being taken advantage of necessarily. It sounds like the owner has been great with you previously.

You just need to have a proper conversation to get you both back on track.
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Thank you, this seems very fair. She has been very great with me overall, and we do get on so well, I really would like to continue with her - getting back on track is exactly what I would like!
 
It doesn't sound like a normal part loan situation. One of the main reasons people have sharers is due to lack of time yet she's been teaching and supervising you.

It sounds like she feels responsible for you and is worried about you getting hurt.

I doubt she'd have paid someone to ride the cob before a fun ride so that makes me feel she is trying to be kind and fit you in.

It's up to you if you feel the situation is worth the money but talking it through is definitely the way forward.
 
The incident with the cows maybe made the owner panic a bit and she feels responsible for your safety.

I can see where you are coming from though, I wouldn’t want to pay £50 a week so ride a pony that was too small for me.

See how it goes on Saturday, if she lets you back on the horse then great. If not then it might be time to have an honest conversation with her to see what her reasons are. If she’s trying to keep you safe I think that’s very sweet of her but could become frustrating for you if she won’t let you progress.
 
Have you got a written contract, or is it more at-hoc? Might be worth getting something in writing and discussing exactly what you both want out of the loan.
 
Herewegoagain said:
The incident with the cows maybe made the owner panic a bit and she feels responsible for your safety.

I can see where you are coming from though, I wouldn’t want to pay £50 a week so ride a pony that was too small for me.

See how it goes on Saturday, if she lets you back on the horse then great. If not then it might be time to have an honest conversation with her to see what her reasons are. If she’s trying to keep you safe I think that’s very sweet of her but could become frustrating for you if she won’t let you progress.
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Thank you so much. I definitely think that she worries about my safety, which I can appreciate especially when you're entrusting your young horse to someone out on a hack! I think I just felt a bit frustrated writing my OP, it feels a bit like I let my nerves get the better of me that day with the cows and now she mightn't trust me to handle him anymore ☹️ I appreciate your understanding of both our sides in this situation!
 
sarcasm_queen said:
Have you got a written contract, or is it more at-hoc? Might be worth getting something in writing and discussing exactly what you both want out of the loan.
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We don't have a contract or anything! I guess that's part of it. It's kind of just been a "see how we get on depending on the horses/weather/schedules" thing for the past 5 months. It's so informal as well that at this point I'd have no idea how to approach it lol
 
I thnk I would sit down and have a chat - but maybe approach it as you've really enjoyed the loan and wanted to check in plans for the next 6 months/winter

What do you want to do- do you want to ride on your own?
If you said to her you feel too big on the pony - do you think she might stop you riding altogether- how would that feel?
Are there other part loans available at £50/week or even full loans or could you buy your own?

It does sound like she's supervising and maybe worried about you getting hurt/horse losing confidence.
It is realistic that she will take her daughter and not you to fun rides- thats the hard bit of being a loaner and not an owner - I'd swallow that.
 
Speak to her and tell her how you feel about the way things have been going. Mention what you would like to be doing and ask her if she is confident with that. Communication is important - you are willing to pay to be able to help her out, if you feel confident enough on the 5-year-old, then say so. Ask how she feels about that and take it from there. I pick up between the lines that the owner is concerned and that is a good thing. I also pick up that you would like more, which is also good. If you don't talk about it, you'll stay in limbo. Keep us posted.
 
SusieT said:
I thnk I would sit down and have a chat - but maybe approach it as you've really enjoyed the loan and wanted to check in plans for the next 6 months/winter

What do you want to do- do you want to ride on your own?
If you said to her you feel too big on the pony - do you think she might stop you riding altogether- how would that feel?
Are there other part loans available at £50/week or even full loans or could you buy your own?

It does sound like she's supervising and maybe worried about you getting hurt/horse losing confidence.
It is realistic that she will take her daughter and not you to fun rides- thats the hard bit of being a loaner and not an owner - I'd swallow that.
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Thanks so much. I feel like that's a really good way of approaching it that will feel natural.

I don't mind not riding on my own, I really enjoyed it and the flexibility with my first loan I had, but I feel like if she felt comfortable trusting me then it would benefit her as well (not needing to be there herself).

I have tried looking around for loans, in fact over the last few months I actually enquired about one or two to see about my options if anything did change here. However, they're few and far between where I am, especially so close to home. I'd absolutely love to own my own horse, on days like this I'm SO tempted but atm it wouldn't be sensible (I'm 22 and still have a lot to sort out before I have the stability to own), and I'd like to get a bit more experience in general before that.

Oh yes, of course I couldn't expect she's going to take me to those kinds of things! I just meant that I felt like with our current routine I'm doing just nitty gritty stuff and don't get to experience the more "fun" parts of riding atm.
 
Dust Bunny said:
Speak to her and tell her how you feel about the way things have been going. Mention what you would like to be doing and ask her if she is confident with that. Communication is important - you are willing to pay to be able to help her out, if you feel confident enough on the 5-year-old, then say so. Ask how she feels about that and take it from there. I pick up between the lines that the owner is concerned and that is a good thing. I also pick up that you would like more, which is also good. If you don't talk about it, you'll stay in limbo. Keep us posted.
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I think I will do this. She knows I'm a nervous rider in general, but other than that one incident I genuinely actually have a sense of trust in the 5yo that I don't often find in a lot of horses. I feel like he pushes me outside my comfort zone without being dangerous. I will of course update on Saturday after our session :)
 
I think she's not only worried about your safety but also about her five year old horse. Because you dismounted she may now feel that you are not a good enough rider to school or hack the horse and she doesn't want it learning that if it acts up that results on the rider dismounting. So she's fine with you riding the pony as it's an easier ride that won't get spoilt. You've stated that your a nervous rider. I think she's protecting her horse,she just doesn't want her horse spoiling by being ridden by someone not competent or confident enough and doesn't want you to be hurt either physically or emotionally and so maybe she's just trying to get you to give up to loan agreement by giving you the pony to ride, you need to talk to her honestly and openly about it all.
 
Communication is the key, especially if you like her the horses and the set up,
I think sometimes being gently direct clears up things quicker.

Whilst talking with her could you address it and say I totally understand your point of view, how about I take out some insurance for myself, or have a lesson once a month so I am improving, and have things to work on.

Equally if she's worried about you going on the roads suggest staying in the school for a few weeks with her offering you some lessons, that way she knows she's directing you in a way she wants her horse ridden ( possibly a bit annoying but when riding others horses especially youngsters it's the owners call really)
 
You sound like a really lovely considerate loaner/sharer, and in a lot of ways it sounds like a great set up if you have good supervision - it’s worth a lot!

As others have said, this sounds like a momentary blip. I suspect the cow incident made the owner not only concerned for your safety but also trying to protect their young horse from a bad experience.

This should be resolved by acknowledging it and talking. Hopefully you can gradually do a bit more with the 5yo under supervision, even if it’s just in the arena to start with.

Obviously if it isn’t working longer term then 50 euro is too much to be paying to just hack out on a small pony, so you might need to look at other options. But it doesn’t sound like you are at that point yet.
 
Maybe she doesn't want to upset you by discussing why she doesn't want you on the 5yo so much any more. That's a very impressionable age for a horse, and every single experience they have shapes their future in some way.
Maybe after your schooling sessions she felt he wasn't progressing as well and had to fix issues.
The hacking thing would bother me as an owner, to be honest- no 5yo horse needs hacked by someone who isn't prepared to take the lead and show them that there is nothing to worry about when they are acting up about something they will encounter again (like cows). I couldn't tell you how many horses we have had in with 'bad behaviour' - napping, spinning, refusing to leave the yard- and when probed with the owner it has been a culmination of small issues not dealt with effectively. Then this needs to be all undone and overcome, which is less pleasant for everyone.
But she needs to have an open and honest convo about it, not just push you towards something which doesn't make you feel like you are getting good value from the arrangement. You can facilitate this convo by saying you really want to get to the bottom of why things seem to have changed recently, you won't take offence, and really want to learn.
 
sportsmansB said:
Maybe she doesn't want to upset you by discussing why she doesn't want you on the 5yo so much any more. That's a very impressionable age for a horse, and every single experience they have shapes their future in some way.
Maybe after your schooling sessions she felt he wasn't progressing as well and had to fix issues.
The hacking thing would bother me as an owner, to be honest- no 5yo horse needs hacked by someone who isn't prepared to take the lead and show them that there is nothing to worry about when they are acting up about something they will encounter again (like cows). I couldn't tell you how many horses we have had in with 'bad behaviour' - napping, spinning, refusing to leave the yard- and when probed with the owner it has been a culmination of small issues not dealt with effectively. Then this needs to be all undone and overcome, which is less pleasant for everyone.
But she needs to have an open and honest convo about it, not just push you towards something which doesn't make you feel like you are getting good value from the arrangement. You can facilitate this convo by saying you really want to get to the bottom of why things seem to have changed recently, you won't take offence, and really want to learn.
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When we initially started, I myself was honestly surprised by how much she entrusted me with the 5yo! I don't mind always being supervised by her with him for that reason. I asked her at the start if she was worried about me spoiling him and she wasn't concerned.

And honestly, right up until the cows incident she seemed to be delighted with how things were going - I'd check in her about how she felt things were going, if she was still happy with me riding him nd she said she was and that I was doing really well with him. For such a young horse he's very sensible, when he does get spooked he's very trusting in his rider to reassure him and I was always able to handle and give him confidence barring this one time.

The main thing with the cow day was that, unlike previous times, I felt there was a genuine worry he was going to try and take off (down a steep hill on wet concrete). I'd had a similar, very unpleasant experience on a different horse in the past and so I felt I that if I couldn't give him that confidence he needed from the saddle, I should dismount before it escalated and someone got hurt or before he went into a full-blown panic and was completely soured by the experience.

The owner reassured me when we returned that it was ok, and I did ride him a few times since then (1x on the road and 2x in the arena, I think) and a few weeks later she let me ride the cob back home on my own (so we were splitting up, she had to bring the 5yo up to a different field), and told me even then that if I felt uncertain at any point, to dismount. I just feel so worried now that I've blown my chance, on that day with the cows I was genuinely trying to think of the best way to put him first 😞 I wouldn't mind going back to basics, sticking in the arena etc for a while so she can have more confidence in my handling of him, but I've loved our agreement up until now and I'd hate to say goodbye to him after how well we were doing together!
 
I'm a YO who's had (and have got) loan horses on my yard; I've also been both a Loaner & a Loanee. Some of these loans have been straightforward, others not.

What there needs to be in ANY loan is four key words: Trust, Transparency, Honesty & Communication. The last being particular important IME.

Also it needs to be remembered that there are three people involved in any loan/share: namely Loaner (Owner), Loanee (borrower), and YO.

It feels like the boundaries have got blurred with this; at the very outset you've described the situation as a "sort-of" loan-cum-share........

OK so I am going to be brutally honest: fifty quid a week of your hard-earned cash is a lot of money for you to be feeling that possibly you are not getting what YOU are 100% satisfied with in the end result, regarding this situation.

I think you need to consider what you want from a loan/share arrangement; and whether this situation that you are in is ticking the boxes for you. I am sensing that it perhaps was to start with, but might not be now.

It deffo feels like you and the "owner" need to communicate. I don't suppose she is intending in any way to "take advantage" of you; probably she is blissfully unaware that you are feeling the way you are right now, but for this loan to be beneficial to yourself - and actually enjoyable as well (coz dammit this is what riding should be about!) then it looks like things might have to change.
 
I think it depends how this arrangement came to be. From what you’ve written, and reading between the lines somewhat, it sounds like the owner has taken a novice lacking confidence under their wing, hence the cost and being more involved than an owner ordinarily would be in such an arrangement. The fact they let you ride when they already had a fun ride planned speaks volumes to the owner trying to bear you in mind/be considerate of you.

You absolutely should speak to the owner about how you’re feeling, but I wouldn’t be too quick to chuck the towel in given the level of support the owner is seemingly offering.
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
I'm a YO who's had (and have got) loan horses on my yard; I've also been both a Loaner & a Loanee. Some of these loans have been straightforward, others not.

What there needs to be in ANY loan is four key words: Trust, Transparency, Honesty & Communication. The last being particular important IME.

Also it needs to be remembered that there are three people involved in any loan/share: namely Loaner (Owner), Loanee (borrower), and YO.

It feels like the boundaries have got blurred with this; at the very outset you've described the situation as a "sort-of" loan-cum-share........

OK so I am going to be brutally honest: fifty quid a week of your hard-earned cash is a lot of money for you to be feeling that possibly you are not getting what YOU are 100% satisfied with in the end result, regarding this situation.

I think you need to consider what you want from a loan/share arrangement; and whether this situation that you are in is ticking the boxes for you. I am sensing that it perhaps was to start with, but might not be now.

It deffo feels like you and the "owner" need to communicate. I don't suppose she is intending in any way to "take advantage" of you; probably she is blissfully unaware that you are feeling the way you are right now, but for this loan to be beneficial to yourself - and actually enjoyable as well (coz dammit this is what riding should be about!) then it looks like things might have to change.
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Thank you. Also just to clarify it's on her own yard at her house, so she is also technically the YO as well lol.

I'd say this is a fair evaluation of our current situation. I imagine she doesn't realise the way I'm feeling - it can feel a bit hard to express that I want more from it, especially trying to determine what is fair for me to expect or ask her to give me, in terms of responsibility/opportunities with the horse.

My last loan was more of your typical "horse-for-the-days" kind, but the owner started spiralling out of control after a few months; I was paying €50 for two days, plus €70 for his shoes every 6-8 weeks. I ended up leaving that one because she ended up wanting me to buy my own tack for the horse (among a list of other issues) 😵‍💫 so I think this time around I'm just being very cautious. My current loan's owner is a really lovely person but I admit that being able to fully trust that everything is going ok this time around can be a bit hard!
 
And all can be solved if you approach the owner-loaner and let her know what you've let us know. Otherwise she might think that you're fine with how things are going at the moment.
 
Good idea to chat to the owner and clear things up. But it does sound atm that she’s realised you’re maybe more novicey than she maybe thought and she’s just being kind to you. Riding lessons round here are at least £35 for 45 mins so for £50 2x a week you’re getting a good deal. Maybe you help with other things around the yard?
 
Spirit3106 said:
When we initially started, I myself was honestly surprised by how much she entrusted me with the 5yo! I don't mind always being supervised by her with him for that reason. I asked her at the start if she was worried about me spoiling him and she wasn't concerned.

And honestly, right up until the cows incident she seemed to be delighted with how things were going - I'd check in her about how she felt things were going, if she was still happy with me riding him nd she said she was and that I was doing really well with him. For such a young horse he's very sensible, when he does get spooked he's very trusting in his rider to reassure him and I was always able to handle and give him confidence barring this one time.

The main thing with the cow day was that, unlike previous times, I felt there was a genuine worry he was going to try and take off (down a steep hill on wet concrete). I'd had a similar, very unpleasant experience on a different horse in the past and so I felt I that if I couldn't give him that confidence he needed from the saddle, I should dismount before it escalated and someone got hurt or before he went into a full-blown panic and was completely soured by the experience.

The owner reassured me when we returned that it was ok, and I did ride him a few times since then (1x on the road and 2x in the arena, I think) and a few weeks later she let me ride the cob back home on my own (so we were splitting up, she had to bring the 5yo up to a different field), and told me even then that if I felt uncertain at any point, to dismount. I just feel so worried now that I've blown my chance, on that day with the cows I was genuinely trying to think of the best way to put him first 😞 I wouldn't mind going back to basics, sticking in the arena etc for a while so she can have more confidence in my handling of him, but I've loved our agreement up until now and I'd hate to say goodbye to him after how well we were doing together!
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Aaaah. So sorry you’re feeling disheartened.
 
I think her having the horses at home puts a different slant on things too. I have my boys at home and am incredibly careful when it comes to who rides and handles them as the liability sits squarely with me if god forbid anything untoward should happen. You’d always hope those involved with horses are pragmatic about the risks, but you only have to look at the horror stories to know when faced with life changing injuries blame is often sought.
 
exracehorse said:
Aaaah. So sorry you’re feeling disheartened.
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Thank you so much ❤️ This is actually my reminder to update the post!

I went out today, and I had asked on Wednesday if I could ride the 5yo again for today, but she hasn't been able to ride either of the horses since then, and there's a storm here today, so they were both feeling fresh and she asked me to ride the little cob again and we'd just take them out for exercise; on days like today I have no problem with working around it for safety. While the 5yo was seeing demons in the hedges, the cob was actually feeling very well and we had a nice ride out.

I did manage to ask her during the ride, if she was concerned about my riding of the 5yo spoiling him/being too much for me, and she sounded surprised and said not at all. She told me not to be so hard on myself and not to think that she doesn't want me on him anymore; we will work on doing more arena work with me riding him again, but that she thinks I'm doing really well with him. :) I feel so much better after expressing my worries. I've always had struggles with my riding, it just doesn't come naturally to me at all and I feel like I try twice as hard to progress half as much as other people do. I'm really glad I voiced my concerns, not only so that the owner knows how I feel, but that I'm reassured that despite my difficulties, she has so much trust in me and still does believe I'm capable enough for her youngster 😊 thanks so much to everyone who gave advice and support while I was struggling with this!
 
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