Loan situation, owner wants to sell - any advice?

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skewby

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My very dear friend helped another friend of ours out a couple of years ago now, by riding her youngster for her. They got on so well, she's ended up having him on loan.

When she got the horse, he'd done nothing as he'd scared his owner/rider and she came off him a few times and decided he was too much for her.

The owner has now told my friend she will be selling the horse at the end of this year, and my friend has first refusal. She's selling for £3k and I'm not sure my friend can afford that.

I was shocked she was not offered him at a vastly reduced price - basically he was worth nothing when my friend took him on. She's given him a great start, has really brought him on and this summer we did fun rides and HTs together and he was just brill. She's planning on hunting him soon too.

I realise there is probably nothing she can do, as this must happen frequently with loans. The owner has previously offered to gift her the horse, but I think her financial situation may have changed now.

Any thoughts? I did say to friend to offer to buy him for £1k, but she's not sure what to do. Anything you guys can think of that we haven't would be brill - letting him go is gonna break her heart! But also, it just doesn't seem right. My friend has put the work in and the value on the horse - to be honest she did this knowing it could all go wrong, a loan is a loan. But she did it to give the horse better future options, which she has done, and which I think is fab.
 
thats the problem with loaning though- yes you get a free horse, but ultimately it does belong to someone else.

perhaps she could pay the £3k in installments?
 
Yes she knew it was a loan and of course the owner has the right to sell the horse any time he/she chooses. Its been a plus for both the horse and your friend, the rider. Both have gained valuable experience and shared good times so it wasnt for totally altruistic reasons that your friend took the horse on loan.

I totally agree with you on the figure of £1,000, if only as a starting point. I can imagine the owner would prefer her to have the horse but perhaps finances are tight and she needs some cash now. £1,000 would be a decent help and would save the owner having to go through the sales process which can often be a huge pain in the neck. A quick quids-in often works a treat.
 
Hmm its a hard one. I own my horse. When I got him he was trouble, I couldn't sort it so I put him on loan to someone who wanted a first horse that was a challenge. She did a LOT of work with him, so much so that someone offered me more than twice what I got for him just 2 years after I bought him.
However, had I sold him when he was on loan to this girl, I would have sold him for close to what I paid - only slightly more as he would have come with stuff and I had done a lot of ground work with him. But I would have taken his value at the start of the loan and based it on that.
I would have felt that was the fair way to do it.
 
I had a similar situation in that my friend was loaning my horse but when i wanted to sell him she didn't want him. Okay maybe not so similar.

BUT.

In recognition for the work my friend had put him when I sold him I split the profit 50 / 50. It wasn't a huge amount of money and my friend wasn't expecting to get anything.

What i'd do is take the value of the horse at the start and the value of the horse now and split the difference. If he was worth £1k and now worth £3k I'd suggest to the loaner she puts in an offer for £2k. That way the owner is making a small profit, and the loaner is getting a good horse for a grand less than market value.
 
Does your friend have a loan agreement? What does it say about notice of termination? Bearing in mind she's going to lose the horse anyway... She could write to the owner offering £1k, and giving notice of terminating the agreement, with a date when the horse must be collected by. Include full livery prices if the horse remains with her beyond that date. It's winter, it's expensive to keep horses at this time, and buyers are thin on the ground. Call the owner's bluff, or let her have the horse back to sell at her expense and inconvenience.
 
you can really see it from both sides.
the owner has had all the work done for her and the value of her horse increased, hasn't had any of the risk of bringing the horse on, avoided having to sell a horse she had no confidence in riding and perhaps losing money.
on the down side, she had paid for the horse but someone else was riding it.

the loaner had a horse that she didn't have to pay for. had all the fun with a horse she hadn't had to buy.
She has also had the worry of this time coming somewhere along the line.

It is a difficult one, i think, fairs fair and she shouldn't be asking anywhere near the current value of the horse.
I had a friend in a very similar situation. A horse she started, brought on to jump big bsja tracks and winning them. They then took the ride away from her and it broke her heart. She eventually had to sell another horses and pay through the nose to get back the horse of her dreams.
 
I was in a similar situation and ended up buying the horse for a lot less than owner originally wanted.

I would totally argue that as she's done all the work she would like reduced price, otherwise she's paying somebody else for all that work that SHE did!!! I know its totally within owners rights but not fair.

i'm sure owner would prefer to see it go to loving home like your friends for a lower price than to a total stranger so worth having a chat.
 
[ QUOTE ]
The owner has previously offered to gift her the horse, but I think her financial situation may have changed now.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's the owner's property at the end of the day im afraid.
If they are in financial difficulty why shouldnt they sell on a horse they cant ride for its market worth?

your friend got to loan and ride a horse(im assuming for free) until now.That doesnt give her rights over the horse just means she was lucky.If they previously offered to gift it to her why didnt she take on the offer?

Maybe they just need the money....they did offer her 1st refusal so if she cannot afford the horse maybe she should go chat to them and see if they can come to an agreement over the price,there is probly a good reason that the owner's have suddenly decided to sell and they did give her warning in advance...
 
If I was your friend I would talk to the owner and say something along the lines of ' can't stop
thinking of x being sold. You know I adore that horse and can't bear the thought of someone
else owning him. We have come so far together if you think back to what he was like
back in the beginning. But I haven't got £3000. Would you consider £x for him? If not I
really think he needs to come back to you for you
to sell him as I don't think I could do it'

The idea being she gets reminded
- how bad horse was
- that she would be selling your friends beloved horse.....

and finally she will realise
- she is going to have to take horse and sell it, meaning she
will have to ride him (which will hopefully bring back bad
memories!)

Sorry best I can come up with on a sunday night after a couple
of glasses of wine
grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]


What i'd do is take the value of the horse at the start and the value of the horse now and split the difference. If he was worth £1k and now worth £3k I'd suggest to the loaner she puts in an offer for £2k. That way the owner is making a small profit, and the loaner is getting a good horse for a grand less than market value.

[/ QUOTE ]

^^^^^ I agree with this ^^^^^

My friend was in exactly the same situation as your friend. Listening to the advice of our brazen YO, she offered the chap a small amount of money for the mare of what she was truely worth, as in her eyes, she put the work in and made the mare what she was. It back fired.
crazy.gif
The owner was extremely offended as the mare was worth more, and wouldn't even negotiate further as he felt so insulted. This ended up where my friend wasn't able to loan the horse anymore as he took it from our yard and moved it to his own land and sold her!!!
frown.gif


I would assess how much your friend is willing to pay and make a sensible offer - everyone's open to a good old barter afterall! xx
grin.gif
 
I,m guessing that your friend has had the horse on full loan, so has been paying for all of the horses livery, shoes, feed etc. So if i was your friend i would also expect theses cost to be taken into consideration. if not in the past then from now until horse is sold, this could be used as part of making a deal for your friend buying the horse. After all it could easily take 2-3 months for the horse to sell at this time of year, and that could be a fair chunk of the purchase price that the owner would loose out on. I don't think that it would be fair for your friend to have to support the horse once it goes up for sale, both financially and caring for it.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I,m guessing that your friend has had the horse on full loan, so has been paying for all of the horses livery, shoes, feed etc. So if i was your friend i would also expect theses cost to be taken into consideration.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't agree with this, if you have a loan horse you pay its costs willingly, not add them up and charge for them if it goes boobs up! By all means hope for a reduction for all the work and improvements you have done, but you can't expect. Some people have no sense of fairness i'm afraid.
I have a 3 yeard old, but had no time or facilities. He is on loan to a lovely lady who is doing a cracking job with him. The agreement is she pays x amount, the horses value at the time of loan, in the summer, or he is sold and anything above x amount is hers. Although not written down, I know this horses breeding and I also know he is a big money beast should he develop into what I think he will....and I have said that if he did reach a big price i'd appreciate a drink out of it. We will see how far the loyalty goes when the time comes!
We are both happy, she has a horse to play with either for herself or for a bit of profit, I get the price i wanted for 6 months wait and the pleasure of still 'owning' him.
I think the moral is always have every eventuality down in writing, as not every one is decent.
In this situation i'd say offer a 1k reduction, due to all the work etc, and remind them gently that it'll cost money to advertise, and that he would have to go back to the owners as you couldn't bring yourself to do it. Fingers crossed.
 
I think your friend should have a polite conversation with owner, admitting that she realises the 'open market' value of the horse but given that she has done so much work with the the horse she was hoping they could come to an arrangement with regards to a lower price - theres no harm in her listing things that she has spent money on to improve the horses education whether it be lessons, clinics, competitions an also it's wellbeing - saddle fitters, dentists, vet bills etc - all stuff that owner hasn't had to worry about for x years. If all else fails I think the idea that owner has horse back to sell is a good one as it should put the frightners up her enough to back down (and hopefully if horse does go back, it will be unsettled enough to miss-behave and for owner to re-consider) It is kep that it is all kept very amicable though...
 
Personally I think that what she has done is great BUT nothing out of the ordinary when loaning a horse, I'm afraid it happens all the time.

You cannot take into account anything she has already spent. She can obviously keep anything she bought herself.

I would talk to owner and explain that while you understand horse is worth X you just don't have that amount and would she take into consideration the work she has put into him as part payment. If not then can you please arrange to have him back as soon as possible as I couldn't go through selling him for you or seeing him day after day knowing someone is going to buy him and take him away. I would also then recommend a local person who does schooling,,,, saying you can take him there for x amount, he should sell within a couple of months

I do really like the idea of saying he must go back asap. I would be unfair of owner to expect your friend to sell him and why should she. If she can take him and sell him then your friend can cancel the agreement too
 
[ QUOTE ]
If I was your friend I would talk to the owner and say something along the lines of ' can't stop
thinking of x being sold. You know I adore that horse and can't bear the thought of someone
else owning him. We have come so far together if you think back to what he was like
back in the beginning. But I haven't got £3000. Would you consider £x for him? If not I
really think he needs to come back to you for you
to sell him as I don't think I could do it'

The idea being she gets reminded
- how bad horse was
- that she would be selling your friends beloved horse.....

and finally she will realise
- she is going to have to take horse and sell it, meaning she
will have to ride him (which will hopefully bring back bad
memories!)

Sorry best I can come up with on a sunday night after a couple
of glasses of wine
grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes...plus tell your friend to say she will be sending the horse back right away....owner may not be up for this and it may force her to lower the price.....otherwise she wil end up with a horse to do/pay for etc etc.
 
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