staceyn
Well-Known Member
I agree but there is nicer ways to speak to people unless she is a qualified vet and knows what she is talking about, I would not like to be spoken to in that way.
loanee breach of contract??
- Thread starter tams
- Start date
staceyn
Well-Known Member
What in gods name is my phone doing. Bed time .good day
jhoward
Demon exorcist...
op the bhs is NOT a legally approved document, nor in any
way is it a legal document. It is a template document, whwm things get messy
theres a huge difference,
Littlelegs
Well-Known Member
I'm with amymay on this. Phrases such as pottery, too late, pulses in all four, obese, and the tone of your post imply the loaners have done a huge amount of damage. Saying you don't need a vet as an emergency implies the opposite. Not sure how you can talk about going after them for all your costs if you don't feel its necessary to get the vet & its just suspected. Make your mind up as to which case it is before ranting about it. Also a bit confused as to your second post where you say you now have two with bad feet. In your shoes I would not be happy with the loaners, but I would be far more annoyed with myself for not checking on the pony regularly.
jhoward
Demon exorcist...
how people speak on a forum is no ones business, if you dont like somebodies tone,
them maybe go to a fluffier forum, further more NO one has any right to dictate
hiw people should come across.
staceyn
Well-Known Member
Lol fluffier . 
. You should really have got the vet out straight away by the sounds of the symptoms call them and get them to come out sooner .
. You should really have got the vet out straight away by the sounds of the symptoms call them and get them to come out sooner .Lace
Member
Also with Amymay on this. Sometimes things have to be put bluntly and it's often only done in good intentions.
rhino
Well-Known Member
No, I can only see one person being bitchy on the thread personally, and it's certainly not her. At least amymay is offering a useful perspective on things, even if not one the OP likes
OP - how long since you went and fetched the pony back? You've already had the farrier once, and he's coming again, yet the vet hasn't been?
For any comeback (and agree with JH; the BHS contract is not legally binding) you would have needed to get the vet immediately, and preferably have dated photographs etc. If some time has elapsed since pony came home, then you would find it difficult to prove that any veterinary issues were caused by the loaner.
Horrible situation, but I think you'd struggle to get any legal comeback. If you are a BHS gold member you could phone and ask the advice of their legal helpline people.
Hope pony is ok
Littlelegs
Well-Known Member
Pmsl at fluffier forum. Where any posts not agreeing with ops or any mention of facts or reality results in an immediate ban.
tams
Well-Known Member
tams
Well-Known Member
so it is as thought a worthless bit of paper well that clears that up then
piebaldsparkle
Well-Known Member
No it is a template as stated. How legally binding it is depends on how it is filled in and whether it is signed dated and witnessed.
Sugar_and_Spice
Well-Known Member
You were told by one friend pony was fat, by another friend he was pottery. You went to see pony, found him obese, huge sarcoid, cracked hooves. When you left that day, you didn't take the pony home with you. Yes the loaners have not cared for your pony properly, but then neither have you, you left him there! To answer your question, you could try to sue loaners through small claims court but it might just be throwing more money away.
EAST KENT
Well-Known Member
The answer is don`t loan,been there,got the T shirt..never ever again!
zaminda
Well-Known Member
I all honesty, you won't get far in court. I can understand why you didn't take the pony back the first day you went to see him, after all, transport has to be taken into consideration. My pony came down with lami while out on loan, I hadn't seen him for a while, he was with some friends of mine, and we were both having personal problems at the time. I was more angry with the womans vet, who hadn't helped much, and I have since had very poor reports of her. The next loan home was great for a bit, then I was talking to a friend, who had seen him at a comp, and thought he was fat. Thankfully he buried the girl, they then decided to send him back. He came back very fat, and with poor feet, however, luckily he lost weight quickly, and is now with a great family, happy, and most importantly slim. There are good loan homes out there, and some people are just misguided.
cornbrodolly
Well-Known Member
I dont think going to court is a good option - what good would it do? Just hassle for yourselves, and the only winners will be the solicitors etc.
Chalk it up to experience - and good luck with the pony s lami problems.
Chalk it up to experience - and good luck with the pony s lami problems.
undertheweather
Well-Known Member
i did notice that, some people have nothing better to do that pick fault with others
Unfortunately when you post on an open forum, you are welcoming people's comments on the situation.
FWIW I am 100% with amymay. Either your horse has laminitis or it doesn't, and the fact that you have not yet had the vet out says to me that it does not.
Oh, and when I had a laminitic horse, we specifically were told by vet Iwho came the very day he seemed not right) to leave his feet alone, and when we were told by vet we could trim them, they bled.
Ladydragon
Well-Known Member
Probably...but I'd have had the vet out too...
Amymay wasn't rude, didn't swear and cuss... Just short on words and to the point... A far more efficient use of typing time than my (usually) more waffly posts...
Booboos
Well-Known Member
I am sorry you have had such a bad loan experience and very glad you were able to take your pony home immediately and see to him. For me that is the best thing.
As for suing, you really need expert legal opinion, but it is fair to say that you should have had the vet out on the very first day to officially document the pony's condition as you will need at least one vet's report and photos to substantiate any claim. Any claim you make is likely to be fairly limited, e.g. vet and farrier fees and, much more difficult to get, compensation for loss of use during recovery time, and you will probably pay more for legal fees than you are likely to get out of the loanee (if she is underage you will need to sue her parents).
As for suing, you really need expert legal opinion, but it is fair to say that you should have had the vet out on the very first day to officially document the pony's condition as you will need at least one vet's report and photos to substantiate any claim. Any claim you make is likely to be fairly limited, e.g. vet and farrier fees and, much more difficult to get, compensation for loss of use during recovery time, and you will probably pay more for legal fees than you are likely to get out of the loanee (if she is underage you will need to sue her parents).
The_snoopster
Well-Known Member
TBH if any of my horses were in that situation whilst on loan (pottery, obese, pulses in all 4 feet), I am sorry but the vet would be my first port of call. I loaned once and fetched my poy back 3 days later, stupid idiots had turned him out in a field with a upturned harrow, pony trotted straight over it and became lame. Loaners never told me it was another livery, I rang the loaners who said he was naughty !
Bought him home the same day and rang vet, xrays were taken as it was thought he had broken his pedal bone. Turned out he had just badly bruised his sole and had a bleed inside the hoof, 3 months off and a tiny paddock put him right. However loaning has left a very bitter taste in my mouth, I think this s a case of learnong from your mistakes. If your friend was keeping an eye on him at pony club were they not using the pelham then ?
Bought him home the same day and rang vet, xrays were taken as it was thought he had broken his pedal bone. Turned out he had just badly bruised his sole and had a bleed inside the hoof, 3 months off and a tiny paddock put him right. However loaning has left a very bitter taste in my mouth, I think this s a case of learnong from your mistakes. If your friend was keeping an eye on him at pony club were they not using the pelham then ?
annaellie
Well-Known Member
An not sure about legal issues but my first thought on this would be agree with others vet should be first point of call. Not just for the ponys sake but if your considering legal action I woul have thought lthough could be wrong that if vet has not been brought out straight away and no medical records for when pony came home that the other people involved coul try and claim that any issues was not present with them and only started after owner took pony back, if medical records prove no medical attention was received until x amount of time period.
milesjess
Well-Known Member
Haven't read all the replies -
In your contract does it say you can remove your pony at any point without notice if his care isn't been seen to properly??
If he's on the verge of lami and they aren't doing as you request I'd take him home as his welfare isn't been met.
Sorry if you have already resolved the matter, as I said not read all responses.
In your contract does it say you can remove your pony at any point without notice if his care isn't been seen to properly??
If he's on the verge of lami and they aren't doing as you request I'd take him home as his welfare isn't been met.
Sorry if you have already resolved the matter, as I said not read all responses.
the watcher
Well-Known Member
I have been to civil court (as a McKenzie Friend) on equine matters and my view is that this is a case you could potentially win, without the need for an expensive solicitor, in the small claims court.
However to do this successfully you would need to provide a fully documented case, including the original agreement, and a day by day account of what happened since you discovered the pony was suffering, including as many photographs as possible and written statements from the farrier and vet. These will form the basis of your evidence bundle which will be disclosed to the other side, so it has to be accurate and comprehensive.
If you are prepared to do this, and the costs escalate to the point where it would be worth doing, then go for it. However, presenting your case and potentially winning is only the starting point, you then have to successfully extract your agreed money from the other side. This can go on for years...
However to do this successfully you would need to provide a fully documented case, including the original agreement, and a day by day account of what happened since you discovered the pony was suffering, including as many photographs as possible and written statements from the farrier and vet. These will form the basis of your evidence bundle which will be disclosed to the other side, so it has to be accurate and comprehensive.
If you are prepared to do this, and the costs escalate to the point where it would be worth doing, then go for it. However, presenting your case and potentially winning is only the starting point, you then have to successfully extract your agreed money from the other side. This can go on for years...
the watcher
Well-Known Member
I agree, I would also be confident to deal with it myself, but when you are considering making a claim on another person you do need a professional opinion to add validity to your case.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Yes but if you where thinking in terms of going to court and it's so you picked up your horse on Tuesday ( think that's right sorry if not) and the vet did not come to Friday is not going to look good is it.
Mypinkpony
Well-Known Member
The answer is don`t loan,been there,got the T shirt..never ever again!
Thats not fair, not the answer, and not always the case. I don't have the money to buy my own horse but i do have enough to look after one! Both of my full loans have had vets claims which i have paid the excess for and any nessary treatments and they had/have everything they need and are in top form. The key is keeping a close eye on the loan with a strong agreement in place.
Obv it can go wrong but the other choice is selling so it's worth looking for a loving 2nd mummy if you can, sorry that you obv didnt have a great experiance but it's not always like that 
ponypilotmum
Well-Known Member
Been there got the t shirt.
Horse was found (after loanee moving it and refusing to answer calls) in a terrible state. We're talking worm and lice ridden, dehydrated, and barely able to walk. It had been abandoned. By the time we found it we had no-one to collect (late at night) and so had to wait until morning. At that time of night I couldn't find a contact for a vet in the area either. I spent the night in tears convinced we would return to a dead horse.
returned, took photographs which were documented alongside the agreement, and photos of him before he went (three months earlier) and a witness statement from a gentleman who had already called the RSPCA to the horse the previous day. RSPCA hadn't attended.
Contacted my vet, emailed photos and vet agreed to witness horse was in bad way, and got a friendly BHS welfare officer to come and look over horse and advise.
I knew how to care for the horse myself so apart from jabs / feet, I did it all without vetinary care. BUT I knew vet needed to witness what had happened to support anything I decided to do.
I too would know how to deal with suspected lami, but if you want any chance of prosecution you need a vet to see the animal.
Your best bet would be to have a vet and farrier statement and hand these to the pony club DC, and hopefully prevent the loanees screwing up another pony. Shaming them and educating them is far more productive than getting a few hundred quid out of them.
Horse was found (after loanee moving it and refusing to answer calls) in a terrible state. We're talking worm and lice ridden, dehydrated, and barely able to walk. It had been abandoned. By the time we found it we had no-one to collect (late at night) and so had to wait until morning. At that time of night I couldn't find a contact for a vet in the area either. I spent the night in tears convinced we would return to a dead horse.
returned, took photographs which were documented alongside the agreement, and photos of him before he went (three months earlier) and a witness statement from a gentleman who had already called the RSPCA to the horse the previous day. RSPCA hadn't attended.
Contacted my vet, emailed photos and vet agreed to witness horse was in bad way, and got a friendly BHS welfare officer to come and look over horse and advise.
I knew how to care for the horse myself so apart from jabs / feet, I did it all without vetinary care. BUT I knew vet needed to witness what had happened to support anything I decided to do.
I too would know how to deal with suspected lami, but if you want any chance of prosecution you need a vet to see the animal.
Your best bet would be to have a vet and farrier statement and hand these to the pony club DC, and hopefully prevent the loanees screwing up another pony. Shaming them and educating them is far more productive than getting a few hundred quid out of them.
annunziata
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately I am a loaner as well you have to give them 24hrs notice to view the horse and you have to give them a time scale in writting to make the changes. I feel for you but unless you have done this and then written to them telling them you are terminating and collecting then I dont think you will have much luck taking them to court.
I keep the insurance in my name and they pay the bills that way i know if they have not paid and if I have to take mine back the I can get all the treatment done on insurance. I would write to them take photos of him and send them your bill and the photos and a copy of the contact and highlight any area you feel they have breached and hope they pay for it. Bar that you would need to speak to a lawyer
So sorry and I hope that the pony is okay hugs to you both
I keep the insurance in my name and they pay the bills that way i know if they have not paid and if I have to take mine back the I can get all the treatment done on insurance. I would write to them take photos of him and send them your bill and the photos and a copy of the contact and highlight any area you feel they have breached and hope they pay for it. Bar that you would need to speak to a lawyer
So sorry and I hope that the pony is okay hugs to you both
the watcher
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily so, the horse could be removed without notice in an emergency, and the emergency was to remove it from care where it was continuing to have needs neglected which could lead to serious illness or death. Nobody would have a problem with that.
In cases where you are likely to be claiming monies from another person the onus is as much on you to mitigate the risks and costs, and removing the horse in these circumstances will have acheived that.
PandorasJar
Well-Known Member
+1.
I would be fuming about the care too... however taking them to court for breach of contract will require you to really prove how she has, very difficult to do.
Lesson learned... always check regularly, have clauses in regarding vet bills if necessary, have insurance for if this happens... but most importantly for now, focus on the horse
Pan