Loanee won't give my horse back

[jr286]

Hello all,

I was wondering if any of you could help me. I put my horse out on loan to a local lady around 3 years ago now. We agreed on a 'permanent' loan home and i still have the contract and passport of the horse.
However, she will not let us visit him on the yard and has threatened to call the police if we go on the yard as we would be trespassing!!
I have attempted to terminate the contract, but she won't allow us on to the yard to collect him.
We met up and she agreed to buy him from us, we have this in writing. However, she will not answer her phone or emails and has changed her number before to avoid me!
She has also sold on the tack he came with without asking us first!

She said the only way we will get him back or get money from her is to take her to court, but I simply can't afford this.

Has any one got any suggestions on what I can do?

 

[s4sugar]

Turn up with a trailer & copies of the contract & let her call the police.

 

[Mrs B]

Hmmm. Maybe I'm a cynical old bat, but reading your post made me wonder if she has not just sold your tack, but your horse too - possibly quite a while ago.

Do you know what yard he supposed to be on? And if you do, could you ask someone to pay it a visit, incognito?

Or you could try posting his details on here and see if anyone's seen him?

 

[jr286]

Thankfully I drive past the yard on the way to work and he him in the field. He's fine and she looks after him very well, she just seems absolutely crazy.
Money isn't an issue for her either, she drives an aston martin!

The trouble with turning up with a trailer is all his tack and rugs - I have none so wouldn't be able to ride him etc! She has the whole yard on side, not sure how but the owners and all the other liveries there are backing her so I feel this would be difficult on my own.

I appreciate the comments though!

 

[MHOL]

Thankfully I drive past the yard on the way to work and he him in the field. He's fine and she looks after him very well, she just seems absolutely crazy.
Money isn't an issue for her either, she drives an aston martin!

The trouble with turning up with a trailer is all his tack and rugs - I have none so wouldn't be able to ride him etc! She has the whole yard on side, not sure how but the owners and all the other liveries there are backing her so I feel this would be difficult on my own.

I appreciate the comments though!

www.missinghorsesonloan.co.uk or email us missinghorsesonloan@gmail.com will need to see the contract and passport, can you email us a copy and a full story?

 

[shelley8697]

You say your horse was given over on 'permanent loan' is there any clauses in the contract to say you can have him back?

I don't wish to be negative, but the term 'permanent loan' is a contradiction in its self. No loan should be permanent in my mind... you either buy/sell or loan for a term agreed.....

 

[jr286]

There is a get out period of 3 months for each party. We asked for him back or for her to buy him and she said she'd buy him (in writing) but is now refusing to do either. The loan was agreed for the duration of his life, but our circumstances have changed and we either need to sell him to her or have him back

 

[FMM]

If you have used the word permanent, then that means permanent!
Not sure why you now want to sell him to her or get him back - but it sounds a bit hokey to me. If she is looking after him well and the loan is permanent, then I am afraid I can't see how you can now demand him back.
Kind of depends on the contract.

 

[shelley8697]

I would contact the yard owner.... make them aware that you intend to collect the horse as you haven't received payment.

Put it in writing stating your reasons and a date and time to collect and copy the loanee in. Do recorded delivery - with a signature!

The stick to it take people with you for witnesses. If they call the police, they have no leg to stand on.... in fact when you get there, offer to call the police to ensure no laws are broken!

I'm sure she will either give in or pay!

Good luck....

 

[jr286]

Well, it is a loan at the end of the day, and I was 16 when I gave him up and now have the finances and ability to take him on again. She said she wanted to buy him too, this was discussed and written down. I guess the biggest issue is we can't even see him and visit him - i'm sure you can understand my concern here.

 

[brighteyes]

Why do you want thim back? If she is willing to buy, just sell.

 

[shelley8697]

There is a get out period of 3 months for each party. We asked for him back or for her to buy him and she said she'd buy him (in writing) but is now refusing to do either. The loan was agreed for the duration of his life, but our circumstances have changed and we either need to sell him to her or have him back

I agree with FMM, but this changes the 'loan' and therefore the OP is entitled to ask for her horse back..... Especially as there has been an agreement to sell - in writing...

 

[Bethie]

Permanent means ongoing, not for a fixed term, the opening poster hasn't gifted the horse to the loaner! Take up MHOL's offer of help.

 

[jr286]

Do you have any suggestions on either how to get the loanee to be more obliging? She signed the paper agreeing to buy him but now refuses to speak to us, so essentially has stolen a 'commodity' from us. As much as I love horses, if the same situation happened with a car or house, the police would get involved, but they don't care.

 

[jr286]

Shelley, the owner of the yard are her grandparents. I feel if I did this they would lock the gates or move the horse. It is a very sensitive situation and if we turned up with a trailer, there would definitely be physical barriers to get through. It seems like a good plan though, thankyou

 

[jrp204]

It is still a loan, with a 3 month notice period. The horse has not been gifted, sold or anything other than LOAN. If the owner wants him back and has given notice she has every right to have it back, alongside the tack he went with.
Adding to Shelly, I would also send a copy of the letter to the loanee alongside the request for the return of the tack or monies to the value of the gear. Make sure you keep copies and send them recorded. When you go to collect the horse make sure you take a few friends, act professional and don't rise to any grief given.

 

[SusieT]

Go and collect him with a trailer and his passport, ideally in the dead of night but if thats not possible go during the day having warned teh police you are going to reclaim your property. Do you really want this owner to have him ?

 

[shelley8697]

If you have a signed statement from her agreeing to purchase the horse and she has not paid, then I would start a small claims court summons, it doesn't cost a lot... you may find that she will pay when she recieves it in the post.... if not then the judge 'should' find in your favour as you have the contact and sale agreement in writing and she has simply not paid! You can do it on line - very easy!

It not just for business users -

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdot...8790&r.l2=1074453392&r.l3=1083910795&type=PIP

 

[shelley8697]

Shelley, the owner of the yard are her grandparents. I feel if I did this they would lock the gates or move the horse. It is a very sensitive situation and if we turned up with a trailer, there would definitely be physical barriers to get through. It seems like a good plan though, thankyou

Might be still worth contacting them - they may not be aware of the situation???? Most 'normal grand/parents/people' would make her pay or give it back if they are in full knowledge of the situation!

I certainly would and I would give her a kick up the a**e if she were my grand daughter!

 

[StrawberryFish]

I have 2 horses out on 'full loan' this means it is for an indeterminate period, so basically a 'permanent loan' unless they don't want them or I want them back. The horses cannot be sold on. I have a full and legal contract with both, of which we both have copies and which were signed by 2 witnesses

If you have a contract, and you did it properly (signed by witnesses etc) then surely if you give the right amount of notice, the horse is yours to take, if they won't allow it then can you call the police? I'm not sure how that side works though.

Hope you get your horse back xx

 

[pedilia]

The trouble with turning up with a trailer is all his tack and rugs - I have none so wouldn't be able to ride him etc!

If your main concern is getting the horse back, forget the tack and rugs, you can deal with that later.
My horse was stolen while on loan, all his tack/rugs had been sold, that was the least of my concerns, I tracked him down, got him back and eventually got him new stuff. If you have a watertight loan contract you van probably get your stuff back, my loan contract was proof to the police and courts that she had stolen my belongings.

 

[hairycob]

Take up MHOLs offer of help. Concentrate on getting the horse back & then small claims court for the value of tack & rugs etc not returned.

 

[Tinypony]

You were given good advice on the first page, contact Missing Horses on Loan.

 

[jr286]

thankyou very much for your help everyone made me feel a lot less helpless!

 

[browbrow]

Turn up with trailer , about thirty of your mates and take the court THEN tell her to TAKE you to court

 

[Zebedee]

I'm confused here, that the OP seems to have ignored both the initial post from MHOL, & the subsequent posts urging them to follow up their offer of help.

OP. If you want to get your horse back let MHOL help you, because they're the ones with the experience in doing just that, regardless of how 'sensitive' the situation may be.

 

[jr286]

i've emailed them, I did a few hours ago.

 

[waggerz]

In my experience when a friend had the same problem.

The best thing is to contact a lawyer, take the contract, all details, the worth of the horse and tack etc.

If the lawyer agrees, then you contact the police, they may just supply an officer to come with you to take your horse incase she causes trouble or you may require a warrant to enter the owners land. (this is what my friend had to do). just do not do anything illegal yourself as this could jepordise things. also you need to make sure you know where your going to take him and that the place is up to standards.

 

[MHOL]

i've emailed them, I did a few hours ago.

But you haven't replied with the stuff i asked for??? I can't advise you until i see the loan agreement and passport, please email me asap

 

[YasandCrystal]

If you have used the word permanent, then that means permanent!
Not sure why you now want to sell him to her or get him back - but it sounds a bit hokey to me. If she is looking after him well and the loan is permanent, then I am afraid I can't see how you can now demand him back.
Kind of depends on the contract.

I agree with this. Permanent loan is just that. If I had a horse on permanent loan - to me that would mean I have the horse for it's life and unless I mistreated it or a pts decision had to be made the horse is mine in all but legal ownership.

You say 'your circumstances have changed' well I would say go buy a horse; you can't now demand money for a horse that was loaned for life just because you want a horse. Put the boot on the other foot; you wouldn't want it done to you would you?
People like you are the reason I would NEVER loan a horse. Sorry if I sound harsh, but I think it's the loanee getting a raw deal here - no wonder the yard are on her side!