Loaner/ Borrower Expectations. Advice Please?

[Orca]

My point was that as she develops she may need a bit change, in my experience very few horses are happy in mullen mouths once they become more educated and established, very few will remain in the same bit from breaking even for the first year, I do think changing from one snaffle to another is a minor tweak and often several changes will be required until you find the right one, at this stage in her training you really cannot tell what she will prefer even a month down the line.

The pelham issue is hopefully a one off and as I said if you find a home you trust the pros involved should be more competent than to put in a bit upside down, if you don't trust someone to make a few adjustments to tack, putting a martingale on as a precaution for example, then maybe they are not the correct people for your horse.

I do understand what you are saying and I think you are touching a key point there - she is being loaned out on my behalf, rather than by me and by the people who made the Pelham mistake. There's no doubt that's influencing my concerns about future bitting.

Under the circumstances, I'd prefer to be communicated with about any bit changes but I'm open to suggestions of a more appropriate wording than what I have included in schedule two?

 

[Palindrome]

I guess if you just say snaffle that gives lots of options and not too dangerous as snaffles are pretty straightforward bits. If you send her with a pee wee they'll likely start with that and change if there is a problem.
The thing with the Pelham is that they will probably want to progress to that if they are into showing, but probably only when she goes well in the snaffle first. But then if they are not into showing, is it really necessary to keep "true to type"? I am not at all of the hair police (mine is sporting wild mane and moustache) but would still want to be able to trim hair on a riding horse to make them comfortable in their work and too much mane tends to get tangled in the reins or reduce visibility when jumping, etc...

 

[Orca]

I guess if you just say snaffle that gives lots of options and not too dangerous as snaffles are pretty straightforward bits. If you send her with a pee wee they'll likely start with that and change if there is a problem.
The thing with the Pelham is that they will probably want to progress to that if they are into showing, but probably only when she goes well in the snaffle first. But then if they are not into showing, is it really necessary to keep "true to type"? I am not at all of the hair police (mine is sporting wild mane and moustache) but would still want to be able to trim hair on a riding horse to make them comfortable in their work and too much mane tends to get tangled in the reins or reduce visibility when jumping, etc...

Yes, I wouldn't mind a natural progression to a Pelham once taking contact happily and if needed/ beneficial.

Keeping true to type because this isn't a life time loan and if and when I am in a position to have her home/ if she needs to be returned by her loanees, she will be shown as a Traditional and needs her mane, tail and feathers for that (all of which take a long time to grow to showing length). I keep her in stable plaits for practicality and her own comfort when the weather is hot.

 

[be positive]

I do understand what you are saying and I think you are touching a key point there - she is being loaned out on my behalf, rather than by me and by the people who made the Pelham mistake. There's no doubt that's influencing my concerns about future bitting.

Under the circumstances, I'd prefer to be communicated with about any bit changes but I'm open to suggestions of a more appropriate wording than what I have included in schedule two?

I guess you still have the right to veto, approve the loan home and do a check yourself on where she goes, that should give you enough insight as to the capabilities of the rider involved, put something like use of the snaffle provided in the contract and add or similar simple snaffle, which gives them the option of changing without being able to put her into a gag or anything on a whim.

You may be lucky and have her end up in a really experienced home but as is often the case there are more inexperienced people looking to loan than there are experienced, it may take a while to find the right home for her and I really hope there is someone looking for a young blank canvas to bring on, we had one here last year and most of the interest was from totally unsuitable novices, in the end he went up for sale and there was interest from far more experienced people and he found a wonderful home that would not have considered a loan.

 

[ester]

I do think it would be best if you can find someone who does want to show her as a traditional, then it is in their interests to keep all the hair

 

[Orca]

I guess you still have the right to veto, approve the loan home and do a check yourself on where she goes, that should give you enough insight as to the capabilities of the rider involved, put something like use of the snaffle provided in the contract and add or similar simple snaffle, which gives them the option of changing without being able to put her into a gag or anything on a whim.

You may be lucky and have her end up in a really experienced home but as is often the case there are more inexperienced people looking to loan than there are experienced, it may take a while to find the right home for her and I really hope there is someone looking for a young blank canvas to bring on, we had one here last year and most of the interest was from totally unsuitable novices, in the end he went up for sale and there was interest from far more experienced people and he found a wonderful home that would not have considered a loan.

This is an issue and part of why I've sent her to people better placed than me to find her the right home, not just because they can at least bring her along a little further (which my health refused to allow) but also so that she is located more centrally than where I live (a very remote corner of the UK).

I'm very reluctant to sell and if she doesn't find an appropriate loanee then I will look into other options but not that. I'm glad your youngster found a wonderful home but equally, there seem to be so many horror stories in selling. I could relieve myself of my current dilemma by selling her off quite easily, I'd imagine and I've had numerous offers but it really doesn't feel right to me, at this point in time.

I do think it would be best if you can find someone who does want to show her as a traditional, then it is in their interests to keep all the hair

Yes, I'm hoping that she'll appeal most to someone who'd enjoy exploring how well she could do. Everyone who's met her in person (from everyday horsey folk, to TGC breeders to judges) has commented that she should be in the ring, so I'm hoping so much that someone with a showing interest will spot her

 

[Leo Walker]

I think she'd do really well as a traditional, and someone interested in showing her would probably be more prepared to take on a blank canvas. I wish I was well enough and fit enough for 2!

 

[conniegirl]

If i could afford to keep 2 on livery i would have had her on loan! I love bringing on babies and i show coloureds!

That said i realy dont think much of this place you have sent her too.
If the pelham had been put on the bridle upside down by accident then the absolute latest it should have been noticed was during tacking up, not after a walk and photos! An upside down pelham is not hard to spot and nor is a pelham a weird or unusual bit anyone claiming to be a proffessional should be well versed in the normal range of bits, thier actions, fitting and how to use them correctly!

 

[Orca]

I think she'd do really well as a traditional, and someone interested in showing her would probably be more prepared to take on a blank canvas. I wish I was well enough and fit enough for 2!

Me too Frankie! They would make a beautiful pair

 

[Leo Walker]

Me too Frankie! They would make a beautiful pair

Especially now hes hogged and trimmed. They would be like a before and after photo! I'm trying to think of someone local to me who is suitable as my current yard is perfect for cobs and while its not advertised we do have a space for the right person. I can think of tons of people, but none of whom who could take on the commitment full time sadly

 

[Micropony]

I've added to Schedule 2 as follows...

SCHEDULE 2
2 RESPONSIBILITIES
The horse,
2.1 Must receive adequate turnout.

This is too subjective to be helpful. Some people think an hour and a half individual turnout is adequate, others think anything less than 24 hour herd turnout is tantamount to horse abuse. You obviously have a pretty clear idea about what her minimum turnout needs are.

Also, on 2.3 rather than 'discussed with owner' I think you probably mean 'agreed by owner'?

I totally understand where you're coming from with this agreement as the idea of letting my precious boy go out on loan would bring me out in hives. However if I am being totally honest it doesn't feel as though you're really comfortable with the idea. Would it not be an option to put her on a retirement livery type arrangement for a bit instead, so you know she's being cared for but you don't have to worry about some numpty screwing up her schooling or chopping off her feathers?

 

[Orca]

Especially now hes hogged and trimmed. They would be like a before and after photo! I'm trying to think of someone local to me who is suitable as my current yard is perfect for cobs and while its not advertised we do have a space for the right person. I can think of tons of people, but none of whom who could take on the commitment full time sadly

That was my issue too, as you know. No longer being up to the full time job of finishing her breaking at the moment (and potentially, not at all) . Will just have to wait and see what comes of this attempt and should we not succeed, then grass livery until I'm well will be the next step.

 

[Clare85]

OP, have you considered contacting the TGCA to see if they have any members looking for a project to bring on? Might be worth posting on the facebook page

 

[Orca]

OP, have you considered contacting the TGCA to see if they have any members looking for a project to bring on? Might be worth posting on the facebook page

Funny you should say that Clare! The lovely lady at Orca's PIO suggested exactly that today and gave me the name of her contact at the TGCA, in case she can help. It's first thing on my 'to do' list tomorrow

 

[Clare85]

Funny you should say that Clare! The lovely lady at Orca's PIO suggested exactly that today and gave me the name of her contact at the TGCA, in case she can help. It's first thing on my 'to do' list tomorrow

Excellent, hopefully they will be able to help in some way. Everyone there is very friendly, and if she went to a TGCA member, she would certainly be kept traditional and would hopefully gain some experience in the show ring as a bonus. Hope that avenue is successful for you

 

[FestiveFuzz]

The trouble as I see it is you already don't trust the people you've left in charge of finding Orca a suitable home. Whilst I don't see the restrictions in your loan contract to be that much of a hardship I do think it smacks of an owner that doesn't trust the loan home (which is all hypothetical at this stage as like you say now they have her all their potential leads have gone cold).

It will already be hard enough to find a loan home where they're happy to bring on a youngster in the knowledge that you will want her back at some point and more than likely when she's more established. I just feel having a third party of the calibre you describe sourcing the home is just muddying the water.

In your shoes I'd definitely be inclined to just turn her away for a year and reevaluate then.