Loaner owing money

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smellsofhorse

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I don't think they can make you pay.
The horse was on loan to her livery contract was with her.

Can you speak to yard owner and try to make them be reasonable.
There dispute is with loaner not you.
 
Honey08

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I'd speak to the YO initially. Tell them that you want your horse away from this nightmare of a loaner. (I'm sure you'd both agree that the loaner is a PITA!).
 
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Very unlikely that the YO has any right of lien over a horse which is on loan.

You could just arrive and say that you are taking him to your vets for his vaccinations and annual health check (presumably she won't want to have an unvaccinated horse on her yard?) until you're safely off the yard. Take all proof of ownership wth you when you go to collect him though.

With any luck the YO will just be glad to be rid of a non-paying livery.
 
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sarah23

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Thanks everyone for your replies. I have been out all day so only just caught up on this post.

The girl that has my horse on loan is the one telling me they won't let him off the yard till the bill is paid so I don't really know if the YO is going to cause any problems or if it's just this girl till I get there tomorrow.

She is turning out to be a right bitch as only dropped this on me she wants to send him back yesterday. When I told her she was suppose to give me a months notice she told me no she don't and she not going too. I don't mind having him back at such short notice and I have my own place and I would rather him be with me than him spend any more time with her.

I will all let you know how it goes tomorrow. Hopefully it will all be a bit of hot air and he's back home with me by tomorrow night.
 
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MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

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OP I am going to PM you with the name of a girl........... because almost an identical thing happened while my cob was put on loan two years/ish ago.

I let a girl, let's say she was called "E", have him, she in turn kept him at a yard on working livery. I downloaded the BHS loan agreement and added some bits of my own for good measure.

I duly delivered the horse to the yard (at my own cost) and hoped all would be well.

It wasn't.

Within just FIVE weeks of the loan, she'd e-mailed me to say that she "couldn't afford it" anymore and I would have to have the horse back. Like you OP, this wasn't a problem (I've got my own place, but didn't have a stable for him at the time - we had to build another one:)).

The problem was that I wasn't in a position to have the horse home immediately and I had to leave him where he was until we could build a stable at home.

I undertook with the YO to pay for his livery from Xth of X-month.......... until I could arrange for him to come home. All OK.

BUT then, the YO told me that the person loaning my horse, hadn't paid a penny in livery from day one that my horse had arrived in the yard!!! :( And he clearly expected me to pay it, the whole wack including shoeing - which was a bit rich considering I hadn't ridden my horse the whole time he was there!!

I told YO clearly that I WAS prepared to pay the livery for my horse from the date which the loaner had given me notice that she was giving up, but that sorry he would have to chase her for the remainder of the debt, as I had let my horse go to his yard in good faith and the Yard Manager had a copy of the loan agreement which stated clearly that the loaner was responsible for ALL expenses in connection with the horse, and that basically I had not got any responsibility for someone elses debt. However, I paid up front and in advance for the weekly livery fee until I could get my horse home again, which in the circumstances I felt was only fair and reasonable.

Think OP you need to show the YO your livery agreement which should state that the loaner pays ALL fees; plus (if you can) provide him/her with a copy of the loaner's notification that they are giving up the loan on X-date.

But think, bearing in mind that the girl sounds like a troublemaking little cow........ that your best bet is to not bother with the monkey but go straight to the organ-grinder, i.e. the YO, as you may find that she's deliberately trying to make trouble and stir things up. I would be inclined to reserve any judgement until you've spoken direct with the YO.
 
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gembear

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Toby_Zaphod said:
Logically the owed money for livery is the respponsibility of the loaner & as the horse doesn't belong to them then the livery yard should not be entitled to keep hold of the horse in lieu of payment...... Logically.

The law however isn't logical. I can give you a similar scenario. A person takes their car to a garage for repairs, the garage carries out the repairs & the car owner comes in & says I'm sorry I can't afford to pay you. The garage says that they'll keep the car until the bill is paid. The owner of the car returns to the garage when it's closed with a spare set of keys & removes his vehicle. The police are called by the garage. The police see the car owner, arrest him for theft of his own vehicle. The owner goes to court & he is found guilty of theft. He appeals the case saying how can he be guilty of stealing his own property? The Queens Bench Division state that the garage owner at the time of the theft was the 'Bailee' (temporary Owner) of the car & therefore the theft conviction stands.

There are similarities between that case & this so before you try & remove the horse from the yard seek legal advice from someone who knows how the law relates to tghese circumstances. Good Luck

Oh, the name on the passport does not prove ownership of the horse. Also name on a car registration document only proves the keper of the vehicle not the owner.
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That wouldn't be theft I don't think, it would be fraud.
They took the car to the garage knowing full well that they couldn't afford to pay for the work and mis-represented themselves as a genuine customer.

So likewise, the YO could maybe argue a similar thing with regards to getting the money back from the loaner.

Regardless, it's a *****ty situation but I hope she's just full of cr*p and you get the ned back no bother :)
 
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Toby_Zaphod

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gembear said:
That wouldn't be theft I don't think, it would be fraud.
They took the car to the garage knowing full well that they couldn't afford to pay for the work and mis-represented themselves as a genuine customer.
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Urrrm.....IT IS THEFT. The case was taken to appeal & the Queens Bench Division upheld the offence of theft as the garage was the bailee for the vehicle at the time of the removing of the vehicle from the garage. The conviction for theft stood.

Regarding a previous poster, it was theft of the vehicle, not theft of new parts that had been put on the vehicle. If a car was taken for an MOT & the service was not paid for & vehicle removed under identical ciorcumstances there would still be an offence of theft of the car.
 
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gembear

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Toby_Zaphod said:
Urrrm.....IT IS THEFT. The case was taken to appeal & the Queens Bench Division upheld the offence of theft as the garage was the bailee for the vehicle at the time of the removing of the vehicle from the garage. The conviction for theft stood.

Regarding a previous poster, it was theft of the vehicle, not theft of new parts that had been put on the vehicle. If a car was taken for an MOT & the service was not paid for & vehicle removed under identical ciorcumstances there would still be an offence of theft of the car.
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Woah calm down, I wasn't sure I just suggested another avenue.
 
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paulineh

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I had a livery that just left the horse and did not pay. After several letters ,phone calls and txt's the owner came and collected the horse.

As the livery owed me a large amount of money all her things (saddle , bridle ,rugs etc) I kept. After a threat from her that I had stolen her things. I did a bit of digging and found that she owed other people money and once I informed her that I knew this, I also had back up from those people, I had no more threats. Some of the tack I have kept and use on my own horses the other bits I will sell.

I will never recoup the amount she owed me but at least the horse is now in a good home with another loaner. I never heard anymore from the first person.

Oh by the way she said she had lost the passport so the owner had to get a new one and start the vaccinations over again.
 
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sarah23

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HE IS HOME

Thank you everyone for you time to reply to me. I had him in the lorry loaded and away in under about 2 mins of arriving. I was taking no chances. The loaner was there waiting for me so I just throw all his stuff in the back of the lorry went and got him and just walked out to the lorry. Thank god the horse loaded straight away (always the way when your rushing the bloody things won't load).

I don't even know if the YO knows he was going as no one came out, but anyway all has ended ok thank god and I know how nasty some of these thing can be.

Thank you everyone
 
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Turtlebay69

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This would be classed entirely as a civil matter by the Police, it is not even worth contacting them. The livery contract is between the 'loaner' and the livery yard, not you. The livery yard will need to take civil action against the loaner to get their funds. There is no liability that stands on yourself, so go fetch that horse. I am presuming you had a contract for loaning, in which it states that liability is hers for the care of the horse ect - but this does not matter even if you don't, as I said above.
 
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sarah23

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Honey08 said:
Good news for you and the horse.

I can't help but feel sorry for the YO having to chase this stupid, selfish girl for what she owes.
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I too feel sorry for the YO she didn't ask for this any more than I did. Lets hope the silly cow did pay up when I left.

It's people like this that give loaners bad names and puts people of loaning.
 
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