Loaner wants me to go 50/50 on new saddle

[Emsmacx]

Hi everyone,

Just after people’s thoughts on my current situation.

I full loaned my mare out at the beginning of December on an initial 3 month trial, all going well to be a permanent full loan home.

Just before new year I received a message from her loaner saying her saddle didn’t fit her and she’d be willing to go 50/50 on a new one with me. Now my mare has had this saddle for many years, and I haven’t had a problem with it. However the saddle fitter has checked it with the loaner and says it doesn’t fit. I was away over new year and the loaner has gone ahead and agreed to purchase a new saddle and I have received a message tonight chasing me for the payment. Apparently if the loan ever comes to an end I’ll get the saddle? On the 50/50 terms.

Does this all sound right to you? It’s an unexpected payment and I really didn’t have the money this month. I obviously don’t want my mare to be uncomfortable, but at the same time I have no idea what saddle I’ll be putting money towards and the 3 month trial period isn’t even up yet.

She seems to be getting on in the loan home very well in all other aspects, so I don’t want to be on bad terms with the loaner.

thank you

 

[AmyMay]

Deleted

 

[bouncing_ball]

How much are we talking? 500? 5,000?

I’d suggest loaner buys a suitable second hand (NOT NEW) saddle and if loan ends and you don’t want to buy off her, most second hand saddles hold their value, new ones don’t.

I’d also want to be sure original saddle really doesn’t fit as opposed to loaner preferring different style / cut / size saddle.
,

 

[Patterdale]

No. You’ve provided a saddle which has suited for years and you’re happy with. If loaner wants a new saddle, they can buy one, which will be theirs completely.

 

[Rusty Rider]

Unless your loan agreement says otherwise, surely that’s the loaner’s responsibility (along with any other piece of equipment they need to buy or replace)? Possibly not a great sign of things to come…

 

[moosea]

Make sure loaner knows they have to return your saddle and have not traded it in.

Then have a conversation abour discussion prior to purchasing.

 

[black and brown]

Given that you did not agree to this 50/50 arrangement and that the loaner went ahead anyway I don't think you are responsible for any payment. Should the loan not work out then surely the loaner can sell the saddle as it completely belongs to them.

 

[HashRouge]

No. You’ve provided a saddle which has suited for years and you’re happy with. If loaner wants a new saddle, they can buy one, which will be theirs completely.

That doesn't mean it fits though. I'm sure we've all come across people using badly fitting saddles who get away with it because their horse is too good natured to complain. I do think the loaner should buy the new saddle if they aren't happy with the one provided, as they will be the one using it. That way they can just keep it and sell it if/ when the loan ends.

OP, out of interest, when did you last have your saddle checked? How much is the saddle the loaner wants to buy? Do you know anything about the saddle fitter they have used and if they are recommended?

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

I had a horse on loan. Saddle didn't fit as well as it could due to horses shape, having been out of work. I had a saddle which suited better, I had it checked and reflocked at my expense. I also purchased a different bit. I would not have expected owner to pay towards it unless that had been covered in the loan agreement.

 

[criso]

How much are we talking? 500? 5,000?

I’d suggest loaner buys a suitable second hand (NOT NEW) saddle and if loan ends and you don’t want to buy off her, most second hand saddles hold their value, new ones don’t.

I’d also want to be sure original saddle really doesn’t fit as opposed to loaner preferring different style / cut / size saddle.
,

I'm still stuck with a saddle i bought for a loan horse that I cant shift, lucky it waa fairly cheap secondhand, but i would be wary of doing the same again.

However if you are expected to pay half, then i would want some imput on what it is. What if it doesn't fit or suit you?

How far away is the loan? Do you have a trusted saddle fitter that could give a second opinion on your original saddle?

 

[nutjob]

I would write to her straight away and say you will not be giving her any money. She hasn't completed the 3 month trial period and it will be very difficult for you to get either your money back or the saddle if she sends the horse back in a couple of months minus the saddle. The receipt will be in her name. If your not too far away can you arrange for your own saddle fitter to go out and pay for this, attend the fitting yourself so you can see if it genuinely doesn't fit or just needs reflocking rather than replacing. It's a good idea to have an excuse to visit your horse in the early weeks to make sure she's OK.

 

[JBM]

I wouldn’t be paying half. saddles are suited for horse and rider what if this new saddle doesn’t fit you?
I would’ve wanted to be part of the fitting and tried the saddle if I was expected to pay half and write the saddle into the contact to be returned to you on the end of the loan

 

[Dam1]

I think she's got a blimmin nerve !!!!
She's basically bought a saddle without consulting you and now wants you to pay half for it for a pony she's probably going to be full loaning so she will be the one getting the full benefit from it !!!!!!
It'd be a no from me .

 

[Boulty]

If she wants to buy the horse a different saddle because she's not getting on with yours that's her business. Would say she should buy the saddler herself & keep it should the horse ever be returned to you (& should send the original saddle back for you to do what you wish with)

 

[Abacus]

It’s not reasonable to expect you to pay half for a new (brand new?) saddle that a fitter you don’t know (?) has said is right. I’ve seen too many saddlers oversell a new saddle which frequently doesn’t fit anyway. Even if it does fit you won’t see the benefit of it, although admittedly your horse will. I agree with others who have said that I would expect to be involved in the process if I did agree to part fund a saddle for a horse on loan.

How you handle it is tricky. Personally I’d call and have a talk with her, and would be prepared with the points you want to make so that you don’t lose your way in the conversation. It sounds as though she has taken your silence as consent, which isn’t really ok. Also you say that the loan is intended to be permanent so you’ll never get the saddle back with the horse - in this instance I’d expect the loaner to pay for what the horse needs unless your agreement says otherwise.

 

[Lois Lame]

Does this all sound right to you?

It sounds very odd to me.

I'd be wondering about where my saddle was and finding out about that and if it has been given to the saddle fitter I'd be insisting on having it back.

So many things about this are odd. The trial isn't up yet; the new saddle has been obtained without your imput/agreement. The loaner's communication skills are even worse than mine. I'd be warey of this loan arrangement, which is a pity because it might be suiting your mare very well (maybe. I don't know).

Maybe a visit to the mare is in order and see what's going on.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Given that this is a potential full loan home, NO I would not be paying half. If she goes on full loan , that means you WILL NOT be responsible for any fees towards your horse. It would be ludicrous to pay for half a saddle for a horse you no longer have, potentially that is the long term situation ?

 

[Red-1]

I think the major upset is the lack of consultation/communication.

I would ask to be present at a saddle fitting to see of the current saddle can be altered. Many times, a fitter will recommend one of their saddles.

If it is to swap one secondhand saddle with a similar secondhand one of a better fit, the cost to change should not be much. I may agree to that, as long as I was present and the receipt was in my name, but then I would be the one paying the cost to change as I would be the owner of the different saddle, as I was the first one.

No, I would not fund 50% of a brand new saddle in this case. Unless the saddle was to be in my name on the receipt, in writing that the new saddle was mine, I had seen the new saddle fitted and was sure it was necessary.

TBH, looking at it from the loaner's point of view, sometimes when horses move home, they do change shape more than you would think. Hilly turnout, haynets, different feed, different farrier, different riding... it can all make a difference. It is a good sign that they have had the saddle checked but, of there was an issue, they should have contacted you rather than go making their own plans. That said, they have seemingly just made an offer to you, to pay 50%, so I would look into the offer to see if it is one that suits you. It may be that you would end up owing a small amount and she means it about the new saddle being yours.

I would tend to think that either she fancied a posher saddle or the saddler pushed for a new one though. But, it is the communication/consultation that is out so you don't know.

 

[ycbm]

Excuse me, you have given her a horse free on a permanent basis and she wants you to pay for a saddle?

She's taking the piss.
.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Full loan means all costs associated with the horse are now hers. If the horse was with you, you could use your own saddle fitter to check and adjust the current saddle. If you were buying one for yourself or for shared use, you would need to be part of the fitting, as the saddle needs to fit the rider as well as the horse. So the horse does not need a saddle on welfare grounds. There are other options.

However as the horse is on full permanent loan, then it is up to the loaner to fund a new saddle if that is what she wishes to do. She will own that saddle to sell on if the horse returns. The saddle you provided needs to come back to you.

You could suggest she part exes the current saddle to fund the new one but then you’d want her to return the new saddle with the horse if the loan ended.

 

[ycbm]

She seems to be getting on in the loan home very well in all other aspects, so I don’t want to be on bad terms with the loaner.

Is there some issue with the horse which makes you feel grateful that this loaner has taken her on?

If not, I can't understand either your own fears on this or the loaner's impertinence.
.

 

[Trouper]

As others have said, I really think you need to get "eyes on" this situation. You seem to be taking the (limited) information the loaner is giving you at face value. If I were in the early stages of loaning a horse I would want to see the horse and know that she was well to start with not just accepting that "She seems to be getting on in the loan home very well". (Apologies if you have done this already).

Why is a new saddle now required? Why has the horse changed shape so much that a new one is needed? Is it just because it does not suit the rider or is there a problem with the horse?
Again. as others have said, saddles can often be adjusted to accommodate any changes in the horse's shape so I would be worried that a completely new one is now required.

You can't just spend other people's money or dispose of other people's property (!) so if she has gone ahead and bought the saddle then the bill is hers alone and I would want my saddle back.

Time for some straight talking with her as settling a bill would be the least of my worries about this situation.

 

[ihatework]

A mutual agreement needs to be in place before any new saddle is purchased.

Personally, as soon as this was mentioned by the loaner I would make it clear nothing was to be done until I’d seen and been involved in the discussion. I’d get my saddler to check and hopefully adjust saddle. If saddler agreed the fit was bad then, depending on the situation, I’d agree a second hand budget to replace that saddle. Or offer the loaner to buy a saddle that fitted outright which would be theirs to keep at end of loan. I wouldn’t go into a50/50 arrangement.

 

[little_critter]

By the sounds of it she’s agreed to purchase a new saddle…but hasn’t purchased yet. She may still be able to cancel the order, so I’d go back to her and say you never agreed to pay 50%. If she wants the new saddle then it’s for her to pay (and you want your old saddle back). I’m hoping there is a section in your loan agreement stating who bears the costs of horse care such as saddles etc….point that out to her.

If you get back to her quickly enough it hopefully gives her options to cancel the purchase if she wants to.

 

[throwawayaccount]

Is there any proof she had a saddle fitter out - ie. their report advising the need for a new saddle, and a template that shows the drastic change(s), if so have you seen it??

 

[mustardsmum]

As someone who has loaned in the past, I did have one instance where the saddle the pony came with did not fit him or me. My saddler came and adjusted the flocking on one of my saddles and it was a great fit. I spoke to the owner through the whole process, returned her saddle and paid for everything myself. Had I needed to buy a saddle I would not have asked her for a contribution, I would have bought a saddle and then kept it at the end of the loan. I also used a saddler she knew. I think it’s really important so early on in the loan these things are made clear - otherwise you could be asked to pay for everything. When I have loaned, I have always taken on100% of costs. I wouldn’t dream of asking the owner to pay vets or saddlery costs. Anything that came with pony went back in the condition it arrived in. If something was broken I replaced it with the same.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I wouldn’t be paying half. saddles are suited for horse and rider what if this new saddle doesn’t fit you?
I would’ve wanted to be part of the fitting and tried the saddle if I was expected to pay half and write the saddle into the contact to be returned to you on the end of the loan

^^^ Yes EXACTLY! Personally I would be flippin' miffed about being asked to stump up £££ that your mare actually may not need.

Sounds like a lot of saddle-fittings I've been present at where the SF comes and says oh dear this doesn't fit - without even trying to perhaps re-flock, because they get mega-bucks commission if they can flog the client a new one. Naughty! But we all know it happens.

If I was expected to pay half then I would expect to have been invited to the saddle fitting. End of. Not later on when the deal has already been done.

And what has happened to your old saddle? Has that been traded-in for this new one? You need to know!

Hating to say it, but I wouldn't be happy with this situation at all and frankly I'd be wondering if I might need to get mare back off loan........ having been both a loaner and a loanee - and a YO who's had clients with loan horses here at my place - there are three words that MUST repeat must be in place for the thing to work, on both sides (and the YO too), namely:

Transparency
Trust
Communication

I've seen loans work out very well; and also seen a car-crash coming where it was obvious things were not going to work out, and in every case these three things were either in place, or they most definitely were not!!

Personally I'd not be sure in this instance whether any of those criteria have been met in this situation: Transparency? Nope, because loanee wasn't up-front and honest that the saddle fitter was coming and could have invited owner to be present; Trust? sorry but no, not really. Owner trusted loanee with their horse (and the saddle) and lo and behold loanee has gone behind their back and got a saddle fitter in AND expects owner to pay! FFS. Communication? Definitely not. Loanee went ahead on their own initiative and got their own saddle fitter in without communicating with owner. There may have been some back/mobility issues affecting the horse which the owner & previous saddle fitter would have known about - but loanee didn't enter into any communication and so the saddle fitter wouldn't have had the benefit of this information. Loanee didn't communicate with owner that perhaps they could pay half BEFORE the saddle fitting was booked - and again, owner should've been invited along if they were then expected to contribute £££. Totally unacceptable.

I wouldn't be happy, in fact I'd be bleddi annoyed tbh.

Might be time to think about another loan for your horse tbh.......... sorry.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I don't think it's down to you to pay half.

 

[ester]

We had a horse on loan with a saddle which didn't fit (was actively rubbing)

owner purchased the 2nd hand saddle we got to replace it, old saddle taken in part exchange, saddle went with horse when he went back to owner, everyone happy! No one questioned it at the time we just had a conversation. If I were the owner I would want the horse in a saddle that fitted and would have requested to be there for the fitting. I am surprised she carried on without your confirmation.

 

[meleeka]

Am I the only one to find it odd that loaner has booked a saddler and bought a new saddle in a couple of weeks, over Christmas? It’s been a while since I last bought a saddle, but the wait for an appointment was over a month, then I had to wait for the actual saddle.

It all sounds a bit fishy to me. OP can you visit the horse and have this conversation?