Loaning horse but owner won't release passport??

Just check the vet fees insurance, it might just be for injury rather than illness, I couldn't get anybody to cover illness for my 20 yo loan horse, no matter how much I paid. Good luck with everything and stay on HHO, I've learnt loads from this forum!
 
AmyHack said:
Just check the vet fees insurance, it might just be for injury rather than illness, I couldn't get anybody to cover illness for my 20 yo loan horse, no matter how much I paid. Good luck with everything and stay on HHO, I've learnt loads from this forum!
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Just looked and it says its for injury and illness, it is with 'animal friends equine insurance' thank you for your help. I will definitely stay on this forum! x
 
http://www.animalfriendsequine.co.uk/docs/keyfacts/Horse-Standard-Mature-KF.pdf

mature horse >16 yrs

death and disposal what is not covered:

Caused by an Illness.
l Caused by a Pre-existing Condition.
l After the End Date.
l If Your Vet or Our Veterinary Advisor believes the Injury
Your Horse is suffering from can be treated.
l If Your Vet or Our Veterinary Advisor believes it is
humane to keep Your Horse alive.
l If Your Horse's Condition does not meet the current
British Equine Veterinary Association (BEVA) guidelines
for the destruction of Horses.
l If it results from an Injury whilst taking part in an
Activity not covered on the Schedule.
l The cost of a post mortem examination.
l Any claim if Your Horse is under 16 years of age

Mature Horse Cover
Section 5 - Veterinary Fees for Mature Horse -
Injury only (Optional cover)
We will pay up to the Benefit Limit shown in the
Schedule for Treatment and/or for
Complementary Medicine for Your Horse. The
Benefit Limit is applied separately to every
unrelated Injury or Condition claimed for.

what is not covered:

l That first showed Clinical signs before the
Commencement Date or within the Waiting Period.
l Is caused by, relates to or results from an Injury or
Clinical Signs Your Horse had before the
Commencement Date.
l Cosmetic, preventative, elective and routine
Treatments and/or examinations.
l Cosmetic, elective, routine or preventative Treatment
recommended by a Vet to prevent Injury.
l Any dental or gum treatment unless required as a
direct result of an Accident or Injury, where We shall
cover the costs of extraction only.
l The cost of any Treatment for behavioural problems or
for any conditions arising as a result of the same.
l Any cost for house calls/out of hours calls/ non
essential hospitalisation and ambulance costs (where
covered) unless a Vet confirms that Your Horse was
suffering from a life-endangering Condition. Your
personal circumstances will not be covered.
l Any costs in respect of euthanasia, cremation, burial
or disposal.
l Any costs incurred in carrying out a post mortem
examination.
l The cost of any Veterinary Treatment or Complementary
Treatment for an Injury if Your Horse is under 16 years
old.
l The applicable Excess.
 
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keely2903 said:
she lives around 45/50 minutes away so could get it to me within 2 hours if needed.
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Ask her what the situation would be if you were asked to produce the passport for any reason and she was not available, at work, several hours away, on holiday, etc.
No, really, you need the passport. Stick to your guns that you want it and you will NOT take the horse without it. With the option of you walking away and leaving her to pay for an expensive large old horse going into winter, or giving you the passport and you picking up the tab, well I'm pretty convinced here which one is most likely.
 
ester said:
http://www.animalfriendsequine.co.uk/docs/keyfacts/Horse-Standard-Mature-KF.pdf

mature horse >16 yrs

what is not covered:

Caused by an Illness.
l Caused by a Pre-existing Condition.
l After the End Date.
l If Your Vet or Our Veterinary Advisor believes the Injury
Your Horse is suffering from can be treated.
l If Your Vet or Our Veterinary Advisor believes it is
humane to keep Your Horse alive.
l If Your Horse's Condition does not meet the current
British Equine Veterinary Association (BEVA) guidelines
for the destruction of Horses.
l If it results from an Injury whilst taking part in an
Activity not covered on the Schedule.
l The cost of a post mortem examination.
l Any claim if Your Horse is under 16 years of age
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thanks for that but i've looked myself, it says he is covered for injury and illness. If you want the link i'd be happy to send you it!
 
keely2903 said:
Just looked and it says its for injury and illness, it is with 'animal friends equine insurance' thank you for your help. I will definitely stay on this forum! x
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Dont touch that company with a barge pole, they are notorious for never paying out.
Dont get yourself caught up in the legal implications of not having the passport. Why on Earth she thinks you are going to be able to sell a 24 yr old horse with problems is beyond me!!!
Save yourself alot of trouble...tell her no passport, no horse....simples ;)
 
SatansLittleHelper said:
Dont touch that company with a barge pole, they are notorious for never paying out.
Dont get yourself caught up in the legal implications of not having the passport. Why on Earth she thinks you are going to be able to sell a 24 yr old horse with problems is beyond me!!!
Save yourself alot of trouble...tell her no passport, no horse....simples ;)
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are they really? I heard some good reviews with them! She doesn't think I will sell him rather than to run away with him, abroad which is what happened to her other horse, the man loaning the horse changed passport details and took him out of the country so I do understand where she is coming from
 
I have loaned out my pony for 18 months.
I gave the loanee a copy of the passport as I was happy to take any calls from a vet, take it to the relevant police station etc if necessary. There were too many horror stories of " missing on loan" and it made me feel more comfortable.
Also it was her WPCA one and I didn't want it replaced with a generic one should it go missing.
She has had vet treatment for colic with no mention of passports even though the vet knew she was on loan. I have 2 horses on loan and my vets have never asked to see a passport.

I think it is great you are taking on this horse. It sounds to me that his owner is caring, not off- loading, and is trusting him to a home that will give him the gentle life he is suited to.
We all feel a bit wobbly when we hand over our precious horses. I gave my loaners the passport after a number of months when my gut feelings about them were right.
 
I have added the link to the 'key facts' pdf and been on the website, it says that they only cover horses over 16 with their mature cover which is injury only.

Please do send me your link if you would like me to double check, just don't want you thinking you are fully covered when you aren't. It would be VERY unusual for illness to be covered, for example petplan will only offer that cover up to 24 if the horse has been insured with them since under 20.
 
The passport should be with the carer of the horse. Do not accept a photocopy only the original passport.
I would also check the insurance policy very carefully as I do not know of a single insurance company that will insure a horse over 18 for illness.
I would also have the horse checked out by a vet to check on its present state of health. Then both parties will know exactly what condition it is in.
If the person loaning the horse is concerned about you then they should ask to see a copy of your passport, driving licence and rates/utility bill and photocopy them. They should also check on the horse every week for the first few weeks and then every month to check that all is going well.
The BHS do a specimen loan agreement but once the loan agreement is drawn up it should be checked by a specialist equine solicitor to ensure it will stand up in court.
 
keely2903 said:
are they really? I heard some good reviews with them! She doesn't think I will sell him rather than to run away with him, abroad which is what happened to her other horse, the man loaning the horse changed passport details and took him out of the country so I do understand where she is coming from
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If you wanted to do that you just apply for a new passport. Her having another one makes no difference.
 
Capriole said:
Ask her what the situation would be if you were asked to produce the passport for any reason and she was not available, at work, several hours away, on holiday, etc.
No, really, you need the passport. Stick to your guns that you want it and you will NOT take the horse without it. With the option of you walking away and leaving her to pay for an expensive large old horse going into winter, or giving you the passport and you picking up the tab, well I'm pretty convinced here which one is most likely.
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Hi Capriole, I have asked this she doesn't work and has new born so isn't planning holiday anytime soon however I do understand where she is coming from regarding her problem with last horse (I posted a comment above yours), I will try and persuade her for the passport. I am going to ring DEFRA and BHS in the morning for their opinions.
 
But she's not going to be available at the drop of a hat to drive this passport over to you at any time she might need to, is she. I think if she's saying she is she's kidding herself.
 
Sorry am I missing something here?

The op has found a horse SHE is happy with but some of you are trying to warn her off, without meeting said horse or loaner....

Also as I understand the loaner has had a horse go missing on loan, so no wonder she is reluctant to let the passport go.

Of course the passport should be with the horse, but if the loaner wants to provide a copy until she feels she can trust the loanee, and is prepared to get it to her in an emergency, feel that is a good enough compromise atm.
 
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I currently have my boy on a 6 month trial (will be buying him in January) and I was given his passport when I went to collect him. As soon as we arrived at our new yard I handed his passport over to our YO as he is on part livery as I sometimes travel with work and needed to know that no matter where I am he could always be treated by our vet.

If the owner is that concerned you're going to do a runner she can contact whoever issued the passport and state the horse is on loan to you and that no amendments to the owners details are to be made. Though ultimate if she doesn't trust you with a bit of paper I'd question why the hell she's loaning to you in the first place?!

Also as others have said I'd think long and hard about taking on an older horse with issues over winter. Even if you have found reasonably priced insurance it won't cover internal issues or any pre-existing conditions which are likely to be the ones that will cost you money.

If you do decide you still want to have this horse on loan I would make sure you have a clause in the contract ensuring the owner is willing to contribute towards any vet bills for existing conditions as you won't be able to insure for them.

Good luck whatever you decide.
 
Sidney said:
Sorry am I missing something here?

The op has found a horse SHE is happy with but some of you are trying to warn her off, without meeting said horse or loaner....

Also as I understand the loaner has had a horse go missing on loan, so no wonder she is reluctant to let the passport go.

Of course the passport should be with the horse, but if the loaner wants to provide a copy until she feels she can trust the loaner, feel that is a good enough compromise atm.
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Thank you!! I thought everyone was being a little harsh, I understand where the lady is coming from loosing her last horse who she had from a foal. I feel myself a photocopy is a good compromise until she feels she can trust me enough x
 
keely2903 said:
Thank you!! I thought everyone was being a little harsh, I understand where the lady is coming from loosing her last horse who she had from a foal. I feel myself a photocopy is a good compromise until she feels she can trust me enough x
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I'm sorry you feel people that are taking the time to respond to your thread with actual helpful advice are being harsh. Feel free to go ahead and compromise the law :wink3:


Words of Dragons' Den, I'm out.
 
There are many reasons people loan out their horses.
Some, like me want to retain some control in how they are kept, ridden etc and just want to know they are doing their best by the horse who no longer fits their needs but would do a job for the right person( in my case outgrown ponies). We feel we owe it to them.
It is very worrying loaning them out and trust takes a bit of time to build up.
I think your owner will part with the passport when she has seen that she is not at risk of losing this boy too.
 
Note of caution, you are not even meant to travel a horse without its passport, we travel all ours with theirs. They do check from time to time. And pretty sure that DEFRA state it should be lodged where the horse is kept. When I ran my livery yard, I held all the passports for the horses in my care. No one ever quibbled this.
 
Capriole said:
I'm sorry you feel people that are taking the time to respond to your thread with actual helpful advice are being harsh. Feel free to go ahead and compromise the law :wink3:


Words of Dragons' Den, I'm out.
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Rude, I wasn't referring to you I was referring to others who have implied I am stupid ect however, I do not know any better this is my first horse.
 
Right guys, thanks for your replies. I will be ringing DEFRA in the morning as I have said and get their opinion on this. I think compromising at the moment with a copy until she feels she can trust me is fair and I will take all which everyone has said into consideration.
 
ester said:
I have added the link to the 'key facts' pdf and been on the website, it says that they only cover horses over 16 with their mature cover which is injury only.

Please do send me your link if you would like me to double check, just don't want you thinking you are fully covered when you aren't. It would be VERY unusual for illness to be covered, for example petplan will only offer that cover up to 24 if the horse has been insured with them since under 20.
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Is there a way I can send it to you privately? I've only just seen this comment, if you would be willing to look over it for me that would be great
 
I loan out my old childrens ponies, they are loaned out with a passport, a contract and as they are so old they are virtually uninsurable we agreement an amount they would pay up to for any injury or any illness, and I will pay for any age related or pre existing conditions. If it goes over the agreed amount the pony comes home and it is either cared for me or PTS. I want my pony to be well looked after but I am not looking for someone to support my aging pony.
It is you that will be harassed if you ever need the passport, to be honest its so easy to get a new passport holding on to it would not stop theft. Loaning means you have to place a certain trust in people, if she's taken references and she still doesn't trust you its not going to work.
 
yes if you click on my name the option to private message will come up, just be interested to see where you are looking compared to me.
 
You can email them too. I have done that and they are quick to reply. Then you can email it to the horse owner or photocopy the reply. Good luck, hope it all works out :)
 
thanks guys, she is writing up a contract so I will make sure I throughougly read through it and she has had him since he was 10 and never had the vet out to him apart from vaccinations, his contracted tendons are written down on paper as only his old owner told her this (he is a rescue) apparently the farrier told her old owner. I will still be loaning him as I have fallen in love with him when I went to meet him and i'm sure we can come up with an agreement. Sorry if you think i'm stupid for doing so.
 
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