Loaning horse but owner won't release passport??

no one thinks you are stupid, people mean well and just want to make sure you go into it with your eyes open that's all :). In part because we hear a lot about where things go wrong on here.
 
So she is trusting you with the horse but not with his passport....ridiculous!

A passport is not proof of ownership, and if she has had a horse go missing on loan when she gave the loaner her passport then she should be worried about loaning out a horse again...not it's bloody passport! Anyone can apply for a new passport.

The passport LEGALLY has to be with the horses keeper and when traveling. If caught traveling with no passport you could end up with a hefty fine, and I have heard that some lorries do get pulled over to check time to time.

If you need vets on short notice what happens if she is away, has other appointments??

Check with DEFRA and BHS.

Also don't touch animal friends insurance!
 
Umbongo said:
So she is trusting you with the horse but not with his passport....ridiculous!

A passport is not proof of ownership, and if she has had a horse go missing on loan when she gave the loaner her passport then she should be worried about loaning out a horse again...not it's bloody passport! Anyone can apply for a new passport.

The passport LEGALLY has to be with the horses keeper and when traveling. If caught traveling with no passport you could end up with a hefty fine, and I have heard that some lorries do get pulled over to check time to time.

If you need vets on short notice what happens if she is away, has other appointments??

Check with DEFRA and BHS.

Also don't touch animal friends insurance!
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Ringing DEFRA and BHS in the morning, any good insurers you recommend?
 
I havent read the replies, but I've never loaned a horse with the passport! I've sent a photocopy and assured them if it ever comes to it, I'll be there with the passport, but I wouldn't hand it over. I have yet to meet a vet that asks for it before treatment, and for me the risk has always been too great! The only pony I ever let go with a passport was one I stupidly sold on installments as a light hack. She was sold on before the installments were paid as a competition pony. She was an ex JA mare who had seriously done a tendon a few years previous and wasnt supposed to be competed etc. As she was so good at her job the buyer sold her for 3k withing 4 weeks having bought her off me for £500 with a promise of a home for life. Lesson learnt! :(
 
FrankieCob said:
I havent read the replies, but I've never loaned a horse with the passport! I've sent a photocopy and assured them if it ever comes to it, I'll be there with the passport, but I wouldn't hand it over. I have yet to meet a vet that asks for it before treatment, and for me the risk has always been too great! The only pony I ever let go with a passport was one I stupidly sold on installments as a light hack. She was sold on before the installments were paid as a competition pony. She was an ex JA mare who had seriously done a tendon a few years previous and wasnt supposed to be competed etc. As she was so good at her job the buyer sold her for 3k withing 4 weeks having bought her off me for £500 with a promise of a home for life. Lesson learnt! :(
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Thanks for your reply, the lady who owns Jack has had a problem like this with an old horse of hers and a loaner ran away with her horse out of the country after changing details on his passport. I understand why she is hesitant with it, and will accept a photocopy :)
 
keely2903 said:
are they really? I heard some good reviews with them! She doesn't think I will sell him rather than to run away with him, abroad which is what happened to her other horse, the man loaning the horse changed passport details and took him out of the country so I do understand where she is coming from
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TBH she has no guarantee you wouldn't do the same!! It isn't hard to apply for a passport saying his was lost, but is she really daft enough to think anyone would take a lame 24yo Shire abroad?

OP I really do understand how much you want a horse but listen to people here and walk away from this one. She really does sound like someone who is off-loading an expensive to keep horse for the winter, and then will want him back. For starters, round here shoes for a Shire cost @ £120 a set!! Then rug price will be high because of his size.. he will eat for England and will need a larger than average stable. For your own sake wait till something more suitable comes along. xx
 
I think you are doing the right thing by getting all the facts and protecting yourself. Also, another one saying no to animal friends, pet plan are more reliable on pay outs- I do insurance claims for work (vet nurse)
 
Sidney said:
Sorry am I missing something here?

The op has found a horse SHE is happy with but some of you are trying to warn her off, without meeting said horse or loaner....

Also as I understand the loaner has had a horse go missing on loan, so no wonder she is reluctant to let the passport go.

Of course the passport should be with the horse, but if the loaner wants to provide a copy until she feels she can trust the loanee, and is prepared to get it to her in an emergency, feel that is a good enough compromise atm.
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Agree with this

Yes, passports SHOULD stay with a horse at l times, but tbh I am yet to hear of anyone actually getting into serious trouble for not having one. The passport system is a joke.
Mine stay in the drawer and never leave it. The vet has NEVER asked to see it apart from for jabs. Even when I've had horses PTS.
The only time I've ever needed a passport is when competing at affiliated stuff, they often ask to see them.

So yeah, in theory you should have it, but in practice - no biggie. IMO.

And OP, if you like the horse and its safe, I hope you enjoy it :)
 
Oh dear I missed the part that its a Shire. I had one for a month on good grazing and it still ate two thirds of a bale of hay a day, its difficult to get shoes for them as they are so big and a lot of farriers will not shoe them and they will cost at least £120 a set. Make sure it come with tack that fits, getting a big enough bridle you will have to buy on line and yes you will be lucky to get a rug to fit.
I have to say the shire I had was lovely bought at an auction for £500 when the market was good and was obviously used to living in cramped quarters as he used to duck his head to go in the stable. He was only 9 but already had problems with his hocks
 
OP I think your right excepting a photocopy for now.
If I was loaning a horse I would be very worried if someone was so adamant that they needed the passport, especially if I had said I would deliver it to relevant people if there was ever a problem.
I realise that keeping hold of the passport doesn@t guarantee the horse won't be sold but it probably makes her feel a little more in control of the horse.
I don't know of anybody that has ever be fined for not having the horses passport.
I have had horses for nearly 10 years and I have never been asked for passport other than for vaccinations. I'm sure you'll be fine with a photocopy.
Good luck with your new loan horse and try not to overly worry about the passport. I'm pretty sure you won't be going to prison for it!
 
SatansLittleHelper said:
Dont touch that company with a barge pole, they are notorious for never paying out.
Dont get yourself caught up in the legal implications of not having the passport. Why on Earth she thinks you are going to be able to sell a 24 yr old horse with problems is beyond me!!!
Save yourself alot of trouble...tell her no passport, no horse....simples ;)
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they paid out immediately when I claimed on my mature horse policy... :smile3:
 
Am I the only one who would (probably) NEVER risk loaning my horse out again if I'd already had someone b*gger off abroad with my last one? What's that saying about once shy twice burned?

The only other thing I have to add is "don't do it" I guess. You sound like her dream come true...a genuine and very eager person who will take on her lame horse (through the winter, nonetheless!) and pay for everything.

Oh, one more thing. I once had a part shire on trial. He hate the best part of a bale of hay a day (with 12h turnout...which I doubt you'll have over winter) so you are looking at a hefty cost! Add to that he is old and will probably need extra feed to get him through winter... It is going to be a BIG financial commitment.
 
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honetpot said:
Part or not, if its big it will need big tack and rugs and if its got big feet it will outsize shoes.
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if any horse is big it will need big tack and if any horse has big feet it will 'outsize shoes' try being a bit more positive,

good luck and have fun with him OP, although I agree having passport with horse when travelling and with keeper of horse is a legal requirement-never heard of anyone being done for it yet but restrictions are going to tighten up over the next few years
 
keely2903 said:
she has had him since he was 10 and never had the vet out to him apart from vaccinations, his contracted tendons are written down on paper as only his old owner told her this (he is a rescue) apparently the farrier told her old owner.
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I was told Barry had never needed the vet out. The part in his passport which has to be signed of they've been given bute is empty. Looks good for never having been given bute, right? Wrong! I found out from the girl who actually owned him (not the person I bougjt him from) that HD pulled his tendon once so they stuck him on bute. Now I wonder what else they "self treated" for, especially as the vet thinks he HSS mild arthritis...and I had him 5* vetted in April!

It's very cynical of me, but it's shown me that no vet doesn't equal no issues. I guess I should have realised that myself.
 
I had a part shire who was only 16.1hh and could get all her stuff 'off the peg' and didn't need outsize shoes!!! She was a very good doer and never remember extortionate feed bills. Re its size, I am sure the OP has considered all these things and who's to say it is not coming with tack and rugs anyhow?

Also the horse is not 'lame' - it has had a past issue which means it is limited in in its capabilities, but at 24 yrs that is not unusual!! The OP has not stated what she wants to do with said horse - if she just wants a quite happy hacker/pet who is to say that the horse is not perfect for her needs?

At the end of the day to take the horse on or not is the OP choice, and being on loan, if she has made a mistake, she can hand the horse back.

I have made my views known on the passport so am not going over that ground again, but it maybe be a good idea for it to travel with the horse to its new home, even if retained initially by the loaner.

I wish people on here weren't so quick to judge.....
 
honetpot said:
Oh dear I missed the part that its a Shire. I had one for a month on good grazing and it still ate two thirds of a bale of hay a day, its difficult to get shoes for them as they are so big and a lot of farriers will not shoe them and they will cost at least £120 a set. Make sure it come with tack that fits, getting a big enough bridle you will have to buy on line and yes you will be lucky to get a rug to fit.
I have to say the shire I had was lovely bought at an auction for £500 when the market was good and was obviously used to living in cramped quarters as he used to duck his head to go in the stable. He was only 9 but already had problems with his hocks
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He is a shire cross, not full shire. He comes with all tack and it fits him and his rugs fit him also as when I went to view him at the weekend we tried them all on him. I know what he eats and he would rather eat the grass than hay for some reason
 
honetpot said:
Oh dear I missed the part that its a Shire. I had one for a month on good grazing and it still ate two thirds of a bale of hay a day, its difficult to get shoes for them as they are so big and a lot of farriers will not shoe them and they will cost at least £120 a set. Make sure it come with tack that fits, getting a big enough bridle you will have to buy on line and yes you will be lucky to get a rug to fit.
I have to say the shire I had was lovely bought at an auction for £500 when the market was good and was obviously used to living in cramped quarters as he used to duck his head to go in the stable. He was only 9 but already had problems with his hocks
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also, since he is part shire it's £60 for some shoes for him thanks
 
swampdonkey said:
OP I think your right excepting a photocopy for now.
If I was loaning a horse I would be very worried if someone was so adamant that they needed the passport, especially if I had said I would deliver it to relevant people if there was ever a problem.
I realise that keeping hold of the passport doesn@t guarantee the horse won't be sold but it probably makes her feel a little more in control of the horse.
I don't know of anybody that has ever be fined for not having the horses passport.
I have had horses for nearly 10 years and I have never been asked for passport other than for vaccinations. I'm sure you'll be fine with a photocopy.
Good luck with your new loan horse and try not to overly worry about the passport. I'm pretty sure you won't be going to prison for it!
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thank you, I have accepted photocopy as she feels when she knows she can trust me more I can have the real thing.
 
hnmisty said:
Am I the only one who would (probably) NEVER risk loaning my horse out again if I'd already had someone b*gger off abroad with my last one? What's that saying about once shy twice burned?

The only other thing I have to add is "don't do it" I guess. You sound like her dream come true...a genuine and very eager person who will take on her lame horse (through the winter, nonetheless!) and pay for everything.

Oh, one more thing. I once had a part shire on trial. He hate the best part of a bale of hay a day (with 12h turnout...which I doubt you'll have over winter) so you are looking at a hefty cost! Add to that he is old and will probably need extra feed to get him through winter... It is going to be a BIG financial commitment.
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he is not lame, not lame when walking or riding as I rode him at the weekend the only problem is he cannot jump. I am keeping him at a livery and hay is in the price of what I pay anyway. I know what he eats and it's not that much, I can afford it and he is not lame at all
 
Sidney said:
I had a part shire who was only 16.1hh and could get all her stuff 'off the peg' and didn't need outsize shoes!!! She was a very good doer and never remember extortionate feed bills. Re its size, I am sure the OP has considered all these things and who's to say it is not coming with tack and rugs anyhow?

Also the horse is not 'lame' - it has had a past issue which means it is limited in in its capabilities, but at 24 yrs that is not unusual!! The OP has not stated what she wants to do with said horse - if she just wants a quite happy hacker/pet who is to say that the horse is not perfect for her needs?

At the end of the day to take the horse on or not is the OP choice, and being on loan, if she has made a mistake, she can hand the horse back.

I have made my views known on the passport so am not going over that ground again, but it maybe be a good idea for it to travel with the horse to its new home, even if retained initially by the loaner.

I wish people on here weren't so quick to judge.....
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Thank you, he comes with all tack and rugs, we tried them on him at the weekend and they all fit perfectly. He just has normal shoes not outsize - I just want a hacking horse, i'm not going to jump him as i'm not confident enough. I wish people weren't so quick to judge also
 
Thanks for all your opinions, I have been in contact with DEFRA and also the woman who owns the livery where he will be staying, they say it is understandable that she doesn't want to give me the passport until she knows me better and a photocopy is fine as long as she can get the passport to me within two hours which she can.

He is not a lame horse for all of you saying he is, he has had a past issue with his tendons meaning he cannot jump, I will not be jumping him I just want to do hacks and maybe a little schooling. I feel the horse is perfect for what I want.

He does not need outsize shoes, I have already had a quote it's £60 a full set. I know what he eats in the morning and on a night and it is not as much as some people are saying he will. The hay comes in with the price I am paying for his livery so I can use as much hay for him as I want.

I wish you all weren't so quick to judge on this situation, the woman is not trying to offload him onto me and thinks it is fab cos I will pay all vet bills and look after him ect. She adores this horse but with being pregnant she obviously cannot ride and does not want him left in the field as an ornament.

She is writing up a contract for us and she has also said I can trial him for a month, if I don't like it she will take him back. He is such a lovely horse, so friendly and I would rather care for him than for him to be left in a field doing nothing. I will hopefully have him this Saturday and will keep you all updated on how I am getting on.

Thanks for all your replies. :)
 
Sidney said:
I had a part shire who was only 16.1hh and could get all her stuff 'off the peg' and didn't need outsize shoes!!! She was a very good doer and never remember extortionate feed bills. Re its size, I am sure the OP has considered all these things and who's to say it is not coming with tack and rugs anyhow?

Also the horse is not 'lame' - it has had a past issue which means it is limited in in its capabilities, but at 24 yrs that is not unusual!! The OP has not stated what she wants to do with said horse - if she just wants a quite happy hacker/pet who is to say that the horse is not perfect for her needs?

At the end of the day to take the horse on or not is the OP choice, and being on loan, if she has made a mistake, she can hand the horse back.

I have made my views known on the passport so am not going over that ground again, but it maybe be a good idea for it to travel with the horse to its new home, even if retained initially by the loaner.

I wish people on here weren't so quick to judge.....
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^^^THIS

My sister has a shire x and he doesnt cost anymore than her other horses.

The horse comes with all tack etc so no prob there and just cos he has an old injury and cant jump doesnt mean he is lame! My old lad has an old tendon injury so cant do hard work but is a great happy hacker.

My friend loaned a horses and only had a copy of the passport her vets had no prob with this and if anything went wrong where passport was needed owner would bring it down.

Op the horse sounds perfect for what you want hope you enjoy him :)
 
splashnutti1 said:
^^^THIS

My sister has a shire x and he doesnt cost anymore than her other horses.

The horse comes with all tack etc so no prob there and just cos he has an old injury and cant jump doesnt mean he is lame! My old lad has an old tendon injury so cant do hard work but is a great happy hacker.

My friend loaned a horses and only had a copy of the passport her vets had no prob with this and if anything went wrong where passport was needed owner would bring it down.

Op the horse sounds perfect for what you want hope you enjoy him :)
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Thanks very much :)
 
splashnutti1 said:
No prob. Look forward to seeing some pics of your lad :)

My old lad is 26 and still going strong even with his old injury which went right through a tendon, he is pefectly sound and a great hack so sure your lad will be fine hun :)
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He was a great ride when I went to view him at the weekend :) Such a friendly horse and makes you feel confident and safe. Here is a photo, if you can see it :)

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