Loaning issues

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Diamonddun

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My horse went on loan to a lovely lady due to my work commitments which take me abroad at least once every other week. I go to the yard when time permits just to see my mare, to take her polos etc, loaner absolutely fine with this. Unfortunately another livery who is now friends with loaner has got involved and has basically said with a full loan agreement it means that the owner is no longer welcome on the yard unless the horse is ill! What would you say to this person? They have made me feel uncomfortable to go on the yard to see my mare now and they make it awkward for me when I am there.
 
Tell the other livery where to stick it. If your loaner has an issue with you being involved, they can ask you themselves - key word being "ask", this is your horse so it's your decision alone what kind of arrangement you would like. Certainly, many full loans don't involve the owner having much to do with the horse, but there are agreements of all sorts designed to suit both owner and loaner. Even when I have had horses out on full loan I've still visited at regular intervals to check on them. Frankly, no one else is granted an opinion on the matter and the other livery is massively overstepping the mark by commenting.

If your loaner doesn't like you visiting your horse, then that's a different issue to be discussed with them, not their charming friend.
 
It’s between you and the loaner it may be that she’s finding your visits are too often and has said something to her friend .
I simply would ignore this person or say calmly this is nothing to do with you .
 
All loan agreements should contain the provision for the owner to visit unannounced whenever they like. If more people visited their loan horses more often there would be fewer stolen and re-sold.

But it would be worth a conversation with your loaner to see if she finds it intrusive or disruptive. She may have said it was OK to your face but said something else to the other person. If not they may wish to know that a colleague is sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong!
 
When I had a horse on loan, the owner came up initially about once a month and then less frequently. We weren't that close to her, and she wasn't going make the journey frequently. I was very happy for her to come and visit, get update, feed carrots. I sometimes took her hacking (I had two horses after a year or so when other one back in work) or she watched part of one of my lessons. Later when I bought the horse, she sometimes had a play on her old horse in the school. She was a nice rider, and not local and I was quite happy to let her do so. I enjoyed sharing the updates and musing the challenges, I benefited from her knowledge of the horse (she'd had him 5 years). She came to help me at BD regionals (with other horse) and with horse she used to own over the years.

It would have been different if there hadn't been mutual respect on both side, and enough space and distance, and clear boundaries. And she was too far to be very frequent.
 
It is not clear, did the borrower (terminology?) say something to you or did the other livery tell you what she thought 'should' happen?

Either way, if you are happy with the borrower then I would have a conversation with her saying who had said what, and asking if she is upset when you visit. She may feel threatened in case you wish to take the horse back or something. I agree that it is your horse and you should be able to check on welfare, but a loan agreement has to suit both parties to work an that takes communication.


If she is feeling uncomfortable you may be able to make a new agreement that you visit just once a fortnight or something (plus at any other time if you have any specific concerns). If that is not acceptable to her but it is something that you need then the agreement is not going to work out for you both.

It is possible she has been griping about you to others, or she may have been upset, or the other livery may just be an opinionated nosey person, but the only way to find out is communication. It needs to e done as you are no longer happy with the current arrangements, and she may also not be happy.


Communication.
 
Agree that it is not for the other livery to be telling you that you cannot visit your horse BUT she may just be relaying something that the person loaning your horse has said.

As Red-1 has said, you need to have a conversation with the loaner of your horse to find out what their view is and see if that then marries with your own view.
 
Go back to your contract. Did you put into it that you would visit the horse and at what intervals? If you did mention that when you speak to the borrower, as you must do soon. If you didn't put the visits into the contract, you need to talk to the borrower and make sure that you are both on the same page about visits.
The horse is yours, you can do with him whatever you like but that might have to mean taking him back and finding a different arrangement for his care when you are abroad. You will only find out by talking to the borrower.
 
Other liveries were the source of 80% of the issues that arose between our loaner and us, don't let it happen to you because you'll soon know whose horse it is should it become unrideable or something like that!
 
Thanks all for the advice, the problem lies with another livery on the yard. In the contract it says I can visit whenever, I used the BHS agreement template.
 
Diamonddun said:
Thanks all for the advice, the problem lies with another livery on the yard. In the contract it says I can visit whenever, I used the BHS agreement template.
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Then all you need to do is tell the other livery to mind their own business (perhaps a bit more tactfully) but I would let the borrower know, so that she can also tell the other livery that she is happy with the contract and your visits.
 
As PAS says, other livery can do one. I suggest a quiet word with your loaner t9 see how she feels. I admit, when I loaned, I wouldn’t want to see the owner much, it would have felt like checking up. How often are you going up?
 
Once every 3 weeks or so in an evening, no one ever at yard so I just go up the field to give her apples/polos never anything more intrusive than that
 
Check with the person that loans your horse, ask them if they are honestly are happy with you turning up so frequently. Personally I wouldn't be, I'd feel a bit untrusted and observed. If they are happy fine, none of the other liverie's business, however I'd want the loaner to be happy.
 
How did you find out that the other livery is sticking her oar in? Could your loaner be uncomfortable about the frequency of your visits and told you that the other livery has said this to divert ill feeling elsewhere? Going to a field to hand over polos is hardly intrusive, especially as there is nobody around.
 
If I was loaning I would have no problem at all with the owner coming to see it whenever - it's their horse after all. The only thing I wouldn't be on board with is if they were frequently turning up with I was there having 'my' time with the horse, or if they were always watching me ride etc.
 
Diamonddun said:
Once every 3 weeks or so in an evening, no one ever at yard so I just go up the field to give her apples/polos never anything more intrusive than that
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I really don't see how anyone could have an issue with this, especially as no one else is around. Firstly, I'd tell the livery to mind their own buisness and then I would speak to your loaner and ask if your visits are an issue for her. If they aren't then carry on. If they are, then you need to either work out a timetable between you or end the loan. As said further up, if more people checked on their loan horses more regularly then some of the issues we hear about wouldn't happen. I'd not be happy if someone loaning my horse told me I couldn't see them every few weeks, it's hardly intrusive.
 
SpringArising said:
If I was loaning I would have no problem at all with the owner coming to see it whenever - it's their horse after all. The only thing I wouldn't be on board with is if they were frequently turning up with I was there having 'my' time with the horse, or if they were always watching me ride etc.
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This for me too.....

Its your horse OP, and your agreement is with the loaner, not with her friend.

Fiona
 
Diamonddun said:
I was told directly by the other livery not to come, the loaner hasn’t said anything to me about any problems
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Holy cow! I can't imagine how I would react to that but I doubt it would be pretty or devoid of swears. You need to advise your loaner that her buddy is trying to cause problems.
 
Diamonddun said:
I was told directly by the other livery not to come, the loaner hasn’t said anything to me about any problems
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I'd tell said livery where to put her nose. It is none of her business, the contract is between you and the loaner. If the loaner has an issue, they need to raise it with you, not via a third party.

I loan. I am very aware that he's not my horse. It's in my contract too that the owner can visit when they want. Given what you've said about when and how you visit, you're not checking up on the loaner, just catching up with your horse.
 
I would be speaking to the loaner ASAP. I would be doing my nut. My pony is on loan. It quite clearly says in the agreement “ this is a loved pony and he is being rehomed in his best interests , he is not being abandoned and the owner will maintain a keen interest in him” Now to be honest I am so relaxed about where he is I only visit occasionally but I am kept up to date with pictures and I go to see him at the dressage. However I have permission to drive past and go visit when ever I want. Wether anyone is there or not. Either the other livery is poking her beak in or the loaner is having a moan, bottom line this is your pony and you need to be in control. I can not believe the people saying they would feel trusted if the owner was checking up, get over it. I have had a pony starved on loan, he was skin and bone, I had only left the visits six weeks apart. You need to talk to the loaner and tell her straight , yes she has the pony on loan but it’s your horse and you will visit because you miss your horse and it’s nothing to do with the loaner or the care she is giving. It’s the loaner who needs to tell the other livery to butt out. If I was made to feel bad about visiting my pony I’d be down in the box to pick him up before you could sat BHS loan agreement because I’d think the loaner had something to hide. However my pony is a super star , his only problem is he is only 14hh.
 
If you only go up in the evening when no one else is there when you do see the other livery?
I would check with the loaner that she is really OK - could other livery's horse have been kicked or something with you feeding tit bits in the field? (Just thinking outside the box).
 
I can't believe another livery has messaged you through Facebook, I would be having choice words how dare she stick her nose into your business some people are just unbelievable.
 
it would be a good idea to speak directly to the loaner and confirm that she is happy for the current arrangement, its nothing to do with the other livery, what a cheek!!!!, if not you have the option of visiting less or taking the horse back if you are not happy. my loan horse's owner doesnt visit but i keep her updated with photos and always say she is very welcome to visit whether i am there or not. luckily she trusts me and also friends with my YO so could always check up on horse if she wanted to....
 
Social media seems to encourage teenage behaviour. Ignore the FB message, and have a calm but firm word with the loanee; clarifying that you're happy with their care, but like to catch up with your horse on occasion.
 
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