Loans and permanent injuries

[Bluebelltheconnie]

Hello, new here,
I was wondering if anyone has dealt with a loan or share situation where they have loaned out, shared a horse and it’s had an injury and ended up being left permanently injured And then had it returned to them? What did you do to resolve it? thank you.

 

[cold_feet]

Unless there is a contract in place which sets out who is responsible for what, l think the owner would have to accept that it is their responsibility to deal with the consequences.

 

[Patterdale]

With mine they just dumped my horse at the vet hospital, left us with thousands in vets fees, months of stress on box rest, and a horse that had to be euthanised after all that due to serious complications. They never asked after him or spoke to me again, and they were friends before.

This was an intermediate event horse they’d had a season of fun on, I might add, and the wound was caused by wire in their field.

I’m not sure how they reconciled themselves with their decision, but from what I hear this isn’t a rare occurrence with loans sadly.

 

[Goldenstar]

I have a horse on loan with a friend the understanding is I would not expect them to take on any expensive or complicated vet care .
I would just take him home ( or to the vets ) and take it from there .
This suits me fine , I would not want him at the stage he is at having complicated things done to him .
A loan is a loan the owner needs always to have a plan for the horse arriving back in their care at a moments notice .

 

[ihatework]

I think you have to be practical. Horses have serious injuries every day of the week. They have them with their owners. They have them whilst on livery with professionals. They have them with loaners. It happens and it’s rarely done deliberately/maliciously. In fact, with a horse out on loan term loan I’d be surprised if there wasn’t an injury at some point.

I’ve been on each end of a loan a number of times, thankfully nothing too serious has arisen.

I currently have a valuable competition horse out on loan. The vets insurance stays in my name (so I ensure it’s paid and I get continuity of insurance cover) and I have written into the contract that if the horse is injured in their care then they are obliged to see the horse through the first 3 months of treatment and box rest before returning. I expect them to honour that, but if they didn’t I’d 100% deal with the situation for the horse immediately and deal with the ex-loaners ata later date.

 

[Bernster]

Also been on both sides. Important to document and agree what happens. In my case, initial treatment and care (I was the person loaning) was on me, with agreement with the owner, then when it became clear that it was a long term issue, the horse went back to the owner. It was a very sad situation but we managed to stay civil throughout.

One thing I hadn’t appreciated before is that the owner should if poss have the insurance as it horse comes back after an injury, that might be excluded as a prior injury. Owner can then use their vet if they want to, direct the care etc., and has continuous vets coverage. Unless it’s a ‘perm loan’ (although I don’t really understand what those are!) in which case maybe the loanee bears all cost and responsibility (dep what’s agreed).

 

[AmyMay]

Hello, new here,
I was wondering if anyone has dealt with a loan or share situation where they have loaned out, shared a horse and it’s had an injury and ended up being left permanently injured And then had it returned to them? What did you do to resolve it? thank you.

That’s the joy of a loan/share. You can return the horse. What’s to resolve?

 

[poiuytrewq]

Also been on both sides. Important to document and agree what happens. In my case, initial treatment and care (I was the person loaning) was on me, with agreement with the owner, then when it became clear that it was a long term issue, the horse went back to the owner. It was a very sad situation but we managed to stay civil throughout.

One thing I hadn’t appreciated before is that the owner should if poss have the insurance as it horse comes back after an injury, that might be excluded as a prior injury. Owner can then use their vet if they want to, direct the care etc., and has continuous vets coverage. Unless it’s a ‘perm loan’ (although I don’t really understand what those are!) in which case maybe the loanee bears all cost and responsibility (dep what’s agreed).

We own a horse who’s on permanent loan. We do it that way because I wanted to keep some kind of control over him which of course if we sold I wouldn’t. So the deal is he will stay where he is forever, unless due to circumstances, peoples lives change unexpectedly then he has me as back up.
It just guarantees his future imo

 

[MissTyc]

I had one out on loan that had to be retired early after serious injury. I was able to bring her home and give her a nice spring and summer on my grazing and had her put down at the end of the summer as she was 18 with the real prospect of complications after her injury and the moment the ground became less stable and started to bog up, we called it a day. Her loaner hounded me for months, calling me a murderer and all sorts. It was an emotional decision for me, not easy, but it's what I would have done if the injury happened while she lived with me. I never blamed the loaner, it was a typical horse thing to do. An overdose of bute for a few months of nice grazing seemed like the kindest life until we called it. The loaner seemed to think the mare would be treated and "made sound" and live out forever or something ....

Equally I had another that got injured on loan who was fixable but would take a long time and unpredictable (KS) and I would have happily had her back but the loaner loved her and asked if I would sign her over so she could treat her. She didn't want to risk treating only for me to take the mare back. Of course I said yes and they had many wonderful years together.

I would always take a horse back, and I would also expect an owner to take a loan horse back if injured in my care. That's kinda the point of not owning, I feel.

 

[Birker2020]

With mine they just dumped my horse at the vet hospital, left us with thousands in vets fees, months of stress on box rest, and a horse that had to be euthanised after all that due to serious complications. They never asked after him or spoke to me again, and they were friends before.

This was an intermediate event horse they’d had a season of fun on, I might add, and the wound was caused by wire in their field.

I’m not sure how they reconciled themselves with their decision, but from what I hear this isn’t a rare occurrence with loans sadly.

Disgusting. How people can live with themselves. Hoping Karma comes to them.

 

[Birker2020]

I think you have to be practical. Horses have serious injuries every day of the week. They have them with their owners. They have them whilst on livery with professionals. They have them with loaners. It happens and it’s rarely done deliberately/maliciously. In fact, with a horse out on loan term loan I’d be surprised if there wasn’t an injury at some point.

I’ve been on each end of a loan a number of times, thankfully nothing too serious has arisen.

I currently have a valuable competition horse out on loan. The vets insurance stays in my name (so I ensure it’s paid and I get continuity of insurance cover) and I have written into the contract that if the horse is injured in their care then they are obliged to see the horse through the first 3 months of treatment and box rest before returning. I expect them to honour that, but if they didn’t I’d 100% deal with the situation for the horse immediately and deal with the ex-loaners ata later date.

Following this thread with interest as I think I might have to go down the loan route this year. That's a fair clause imho.

 

[Bluebelltheconnie]

Unless there is a contract in place which sets out who is responsible for what, l think the owner would have to accept that it is their responsibility to deal with the consequences.

the contract was agreed to but they have delayed signing…

 

[AmyMay]

the contract was agreed to but they have delayed signing…

Are you the owner?

 

[Bluebelltheconnie]

With mine they just dumped my horse at the vet hospital, left us with thousands in vets fees, months of stress on box rest, and a horse that had to be euthanised after all that due to serious complications. They never asked after him or spoke to me again, and they were friends before.

This was an intermediate event horse they’d had a season of fun on, I might add, and the wound was caused by wire in their field.

I’m not sure how they reconciled themselves with their decision, but from what I hear this isn’t a rare occurrence with loans sadly.

That’s terrible absolutely disgusting behaviour. I am so sorry I can’t see anyone human reconciling that with themselves. No conscience - psychopathic… I am horrified for you…. And shocked people can do that sort of thing…

 

[Tiddlypom]

the contract was agreed to but they have delayed signing…

You let the horse go out on loan without a signed contract in place?

In any event, any owner must be prepared for the return of their horse from loan with little or notice. It happens.

ETA Are you the owner or the loaner?

 

[Bluebelltheconnie]

Ate you the owner?

i am and this was not an accident, it was sheer stupidity and easily avoided. i haven’t gotten a diagnosis as yet so it may not be as bad as I imagine.
they have made it extremely difficult for me to go check on him for a few months.. and avoided paying for pretty much anything.
yes I know I’m stupid for not getting the contract signed beforehand.. there are some circumstances as to why though and I am not going into details in Case it goes to court or something..

 

[Tiddlypom]

Have you got him back now?

 

[AmyMay]

i am and this was not an accident, it was sheer stupidity and easily avoided. i haven’t gotten a diagnosis as yet so it may not be as bad as I imagine.
they have made it extremely difficult for me to go check on him for a few months.. and avoided paying for pretty much anything.
yes I know I’m stupid for not getting the contract signed beforehand.. there are some circumstances as to why though and I am not going into details in Case it goes to court or something..

I think the contract is almost irrelevant, in terms of whether a horse is returned/removed with little or no notice. It obviously will carry some weight should legal action take place.

Presumably your horse is now home and receiving appropriate treatment under your care.

 

[Bluebelltheconnie]

I think you have to be practical. Horses have serious injuries every day of the week. They have them with their owners. They have them whilst on livery with professionals. They have them with loaners. It happens and it’s rarely done deliberately/maliciously. In fact, with a horse out on loan term loan I’d be surprised if there wasn’t an injury at some point.

I’ve been on each end of a loan a number of times, thankfully nothing too serious has arisen.

I currently have a valuable competition horse out on loan. The vets insurance stays in my name (so I ensure it’s paid and I get continuity of insurance cover) and I have written into the contract that if the horse is injured in their care then they are obliged to see the horse through the first 3 months of treatment and box rest before returning. I expect them to honour that, but if they didn’t I’d 100% deal with the situation for the horse immediately and deal with the ex-loaners ata later date.

I absolutely agree with you, and I fully expect nicks, grazes etc . However this was not that sort of injury, it was sheer laziness on their behalf. she did have an injury in their care and that’s the “normal” sort of thing that happens, although it wouldn’t have happened if they had stuck to the original agreement.. . this is something they shouldn’t be doing with any horse, again I don’t want to go into detail in case this end up going further.

 

[Goldenstar]

What difference would a signed contract have made the horse is yours and in an unsuitable situation for the horse .
You need to get him home .

 

[Tiddlypom]

She? He was a he a few posts back.

 

[Bluebelltheconnie]

Also been on both sides. Important to document and agree what happens. In my case, initial treatment and care (I was the person loaning) was on me, with agreement with the owner, then when it became clear that it was a long term issue, the horse went back to the owner. It was a very sad situation but we managed to stay civil throughout.

One thing I hadn’t appreciated before is that the owner should if poss have the insurance as it horse comes back after an injury, that might be excluded as a prior injury. Owner can then use their vet if they want to, direct the care etc., and has continuous vets coverage. Unless it’s a ‘perm loan’ (although I don’t really understand what those are!) in which case maybe the loanee bears all cost and responsibility (dep what’s agreed).

thank you that’s so true. And this is the last time I will be loaning, even if she comes on and recovers. Unfortunately I don’t know how long this has been going on as I wasn’t told the truth. And have been kept away.

 

[Bluebelltheconnie]

She? He was a he a few posts back.

My tablet doesn’t like this website it seems to eat my words. I apologis…..

 

[Bluebelltheconnie]

My tablet doesn’t like this website it seems to eat my words. I apologis…..

Apologise.

 

[nagblagger]

I gather you are the owner, sorry i'm a bit confused how they could make it awkward for you to visit your own horse? and you were still paying for stuff? That would be ringing alarm bells for me, but agree, hindsight is wonderful.
No contract, no follow-up visits by you, unless you can prove neglect or cruelty in failure to meet the needs of the horse, i'm not sure what you are expecting from them.

 

[Pinkvboots]

If the horse is still with the loaner and they are not letting you visit I would be going with a horses box and I would simply bremove the horse, I certainly wouldn't be held to ransom signed contract or not.

 

[Goldenstar]

Yup you need to go and get your horse .

 

[Polos Mum]

The contracts are helpful in setting out expectations on both sides but enforcing them would be impossible.

For a permanent injury I'd expect a horse on loan to be dumped back on me with little or no notice (sadly).

OP if you aren't happy with the care being given to your horse - and you don't think things are being paid for that should be and you are being prevented from checking on them, you should go and get them, immediately.
I think the BHS loan template allows you to do that anyway if you were worried about breach of contract.