Loans/passports and when it all goes wrong.

jhoward

jhoward

Demon exorcist...
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Ive decided to post this as a HUGE warning to people that loan/are considering loaning a horse, now before the story starts let me say, im very aware a few of you will feel the need to pull me to pieces for my short comings, I dont care, you carry on, im VERY aware of my mistakes. but right now I care about getting my horse back, and if even ONE person learns from this then it was worth it.

In 2009 I loaned my stallion , he is a pre stallion. so a rather decent horse.

the woman came to see him, then i went to cornwall to visit her place, all was good so took the horse down, over the past 2 years had a couple of visits to ensure he was ok and a few calls/emails.

Then life took over and I knew the horse was ok so there was no contact for near a year. then i discovered the loaner had sold her property. alarm bells rang, she had always been good with contact so didnt really question it to much but did email/try calling etc I then discovered that none of her phone numbers were connected to her.

she added me on facebook, I agree tried to establish some connact but nothing, it was at this point I got worried, MHOL and the police were contacted. I also as a stab in the dark contacted one of her FB friends, low and behold she replied, but no contact details.. so i contacted the friend and mentioned the police. i then got contact details.

today ive been to see my horse and she is now trying to claime ownership she has NO grounds for this. but currently i am stuck. he is now with the police as a stolen horse on loan.

here are my egit bits. no loan contract, after a loan going horribley wrong previousley that DID have an agreement in place.. well it done me no favours when the loaners returned the horse with a hidden tendon injury. so with this horse iT just didnt get done.

the second.. the horses papers and passport are still in the previous owners name, if they were in my name id be going back tonight I am LUCKY. so lucky that i do still have various emails from the loaner, and the chap i bought the horse off but more to the point ive spoken to the previous owner and he is more than willing to help me.

once I have that I can hopefully go and get my horse.. along with a call to the police if needed.

but of course she could move the horse couldnt she?

see the moral of this story is .. PAPERWORK make sure its in your name, have some thing that confirms a loan and make sure you know where the horse is,

I will update as and when as i really want this to be an eye opener to everyone. Id like to say im not stupid or niave.. but apparently i am.

tomorrow im also going to contact the press and see if they will run a story, as it will do this woman no favours to her status. im not doing it to be evil, but to prompt her to give my horse back.
 
Really sorry to hear of your troubles, hope it all works out and you get him back ok. We all make mistakes and there's no point in 'should haves' since they don't change anything that's happened... like you say, all you can do is learn from the experiences and move on.

I was on the other end of a loan agreement gone wrong - years ago I took a cob on loan from a riding school. She had been driven and was only just broken to riding and couldn't canter, but I fell in love with her character... also I was the only one on the yard who was prepared to put up with the strings of bucks when she was asked for canter! My Mum, who had her own horses, decided that it would be good to give me some responsibility of my own and arranged a loan with the yard. The agreement was that we would loan the horse, keep it on the yard and if, at the end of 6 months, we wanted to buy her we would have first preference, if not she would be put up for sale.

So I took the mare on and worked with her every day for five and a half months and eventually got her going beautifully. I was absolutely mad about her and, towards the end of the loan period, we made it clear to the yard owner that we did intend to buy her. Then one day I went out to the yard to bring her in from the field and she wasn't there. Knowing that she was inclined to jump out of whatever field she' been left in, I spent a good number of hours trailling round the countryside looking for her and getting increasingly more worried and upset. Eventually I gave up and went back to the yard in floods of tears and terrified that she was hurt or stolen... only to be told "Oh, we sold her yesterday."

They hadn't even bothered to tell me, or my mother, that someone was interested in her, let alone give us the first preference that we'd been assured, and the full 6 months on the loan wasn't up... and I didn't get a single thanks for all the work I'd put in on her, without which I'm pretty sure she'd never have been sold. I was absolutely heartbroken, still get upset thinking about it today, and this was about 11 or 12 years ago!

The worst part is that they were, supposedly, friends of ours - we'd been at that yard for several years... my sister and I both had lessons there on a weekly basis, my Mum had horses there. Apparently it all counted for nothing when someone turned up with a bag of money. :(
 
sorry to hear your troubles, i hope you get your horse back. my mare is on loan and after reading lots of horror stories like yours I did everything i could possible think of. i have a loan agreement with photo copies of her passport attached. with photos of her from both sides and all her distinctive markings. I phoned the passport agency to inform them she wasn't being sold so if anyone tries to register a change of ownership on her to contact me. She is flagged on NED as on loan. I also visit her at least every 8 weeks.

I am very lucky that my loanee is very good and she is well cared for, but i was so nervous about doing it.

Please keep us updated, and i will keep everything crossed that you get him home safe and sound
 
no im not going tonight, i just melted and hubby said lets go back, but the reality is i need to have proof of ownership, its also a 240 round trip and i dont think unloading a stallion in to a field in the dark is a clever plan.,

Ive emailed a friend asking for a stable if its urgent.

the reality is I have to sit tight and do it all properly. I cant tell you how fustrating it is.

I buy horses, I produce them i sell them ,. normally have a holiday on the profits then start again, this horse has had a tough life before me and he is the one horse id never sell. i decided that long ago.

the reality was at the time I lost my yard, so the previous owner was going to buy him back but in the end loaned him. it had always been a part of the agreement of sale that if the horse was needed the previous owner could use him (he was previousley a film/trick/jousting horse)

anyway long term it ment the horse going away from the area long term so I decided to loan him, to the current loaner.

this horse is a bit special and to me he deserved the best life which I do NOT DOUBT he has. he looks great and lives out with company, but I cant allow him to stay with the loaner, and Ive got the time, and the land for him so its the best time ever for him to come home
 
Do you know where the horse is?

I would go down there in the early hours of the morning with a trailer and pick him up. At least then you know he won't be sold/passed on/gelded in your absence, and to be honest, even if she kicks up a stink, it wouldn't be a worse situation than you are in now.
 
Ouch, I can't imagine what you must be going through.....bl00dy good case for why you must ALWAYS get a watertight loan contract signed, dated and witnessed by an independant party.
Hope you get your boy back sharpish!
 
Trish c I totally understand how you felt, years ago I had a loan horse taken for me, after no warnings and 4 years with said horse.

I had no intentions of removing my horse but had said i wanted the paper work to put in my name.. thats when it all turned. I dont doubt she loves him, and her care for him is clealry good.

I guess this is what makes it all crazy, but then maybe to her... well maybe she thought i was going to take him off her.

stupid woman is all i can say.
 
Charliepony said:
Do you know where the horse is?

I would go down there in the early hours of the morning with a trailer and pick him up. At least then you know he won't be sold/passed on/gelded in your absence, and to be honest, even if she kicks up a stink, it wouldn't be a worse situation than you are in now.
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yes ive been to see him today.

im not going down there until ive got the proof of ownership. she wont geld him or sell him.. again I do not for one second doubt her care of him.
 
joeanne said:
Ouch, I can't imagine what you must be going through.....bl00dy good case for why you must ALWAYS get a watertight loan contract signed, dated and witnessed by an independant party.
Hope you get your boy back sharpish!
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to be honest AN agreement right now wouldnt help me. especially the way police view things. im better off NOT having one. I have enough from emails, witnesses that were there on the day of the trial etc to back up the horse was never given or sold.

when i 1st spoke to the police tonight i yet again got the its a civil matter and the pc i spoke to said theft is when property is taken off another persons property, i went and read the theft act, and rang the police back quoting it.

they are now being more helpful, with proof of ownership i may get a police escort to go and collect the horse.

im waiting for MHOL to come back to me with some more help.
 
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please do and suggest she visits the missing horses on loan website as it has lots of info on there.

not all loaners are bad, and I do accept some of this is my fault.
 
I just realised that my post may read as if I'm trying to say that you taking him back is wrong - TOTALLY not what I meant it to come across as and really really sorry if that's how it came across (meant it to just be sharing another bad loan experience). Your situation sounds horrific and you're right to go after them and really hope it all works out. Fingers crossed for you!
 
Ring Ali and do exactly what she says, don't rush in, you have proof of ownership, we are here for you.
 
Please be careful what you say about your intentions on here... you just never know who is reading this and might put two and two together and let the loaner know your intentions. This happened recently on a thread here.
 
firstly i hope you can resolve this situation soon and he will be back home with you.
i agree that not all loaners/loanees are bad, there are some very good ones out there. as you said she's caring for the horse and doing a good job (i presume) so at least that's one thing less to worry about.

agree with cluedo though about saying things on here just in case she reads it and uses it against you, somehow.

it might sound a daft idea but with modern technology these days maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea for the loan agreement to be done on camera/video, sort of have the loaner and loanee in the same shot with the owner reading the terms of loan out and the person loaning the horse agree to it, with all details of the person included. at least then if the police ever say there's no proof you can say well actually there is and it was all agreed, also this is what the person looks/sounds like. etc etc.
 
You're not stupid. We all judge others by our own standards and you don't expect someone to deny you your own property.

Passports are supposed to stay with whoever is the keeper of the horse but the way around it is to provide a photocopy and notify NEDs and the passporter that the horse is on loan and no change of ownership will then be entertained.

I'm still doubting the Police will get involved though. I'd also be tempted to give this plenty of publicity, it might just make the loaner back down if she thinks she is being accused of theft.

Good luck with it
 
Cludeo, I did think long and hard before i posted, which is also why ive not even named the horse, to be honest its to far gone now, the woman is fairly famous so havign a criminal record would do her no good.

the situation is,

MHOL are going to speak to her, I have no desire to whip the horse out from under her, but if he remains in her care then all paper work comes to me to go in my name and a contract in place.

the reality is she could predict im going to go and try and take the horse and have it moved already.

again, another reason i wasnt worried about about posting if she does that it goes against her.

DIZZLE why would I want the horse back? blunty I dont, my hubby had a breakdown, im now his carer its not the best time, BUT if the loaner is trying to claim my horse as her own then he has to be removed from the situation,. Ive got the grazing and the company for him, ive got the lorry to go and get him, if that what is to happen then so be it,

ive just spoken to MHOL who are going to try and talk to the loaner, again its not my intention to be pissed of, and take the horse from underneath her. she cleary loves the horse and has done her best. BUT she does not own him !

CLIPPY

I did have copies of his import papers, pre grading and passport but they got lost on a pc that got erm trashed, never thought about it till last week when all hell broke lose. it was only with the help of a very helpful chap at the passport agency. and previous owner we found all his details.
 
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I remember you loaning him, handsome boy that he is. Seeing as how he's had a good long term home with this lady, and she's been able to manage him, would she not want to buy him ?
 
riding high.. theres no doubt to whom she is, you only have to google her name and all sorts pop up, both in the uk and internationally..she is rather famous in her own right.
 
horserider said:
I remember you loaning him, handsome boy that he is. Seeing as how he's had a good long term home with this lady, and she's been able to manage him, would she not want to buy him ?
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thank you..

and i dont know, id never sell him, you may remember he had had a hard life.

he is the one horse that i will never sell for any amount of money. I always vowed to protect him and i will do that. hes to honest, to special, just the sort of horse you meet once in a life time. nope. he is not for sale.
 
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