London International horse show

90 percent of this thread is quite negative. I will try to balance it out. I watched the dressage (in the arena) today and I was thinking how incredible these horses are putting up with a really intense competition arena and did a very good test. The third place Totilas offspring was very busy showing off his 5th leg in price giving . It was funny!

Watched puissance on rb and my goodness the riders and horses are so brave and the horses.so amazing for giving it a go. They're top athletes and it shows. Bonus was we got to watch John Whitaker jumping earlier on in the day and he is just such a quiet and amazing rider .
 
I watched it on replay tonight. I'm not sure about that Chestnut horse, everything looked wrong. There was a lot of fast scrabbling in the first round.
Rachel & Easy Boy did good. The fall was awful & looked sore.
The commentary is "Oh excited, saw the wall, wants to go!" really reads "stressed to hell & wants it over with, but might get hit if get it wrong so going to run like f at it."
 
minesadouble said:
I feel some people who own horses are going down the road of "all competition is bad" which I don't think is the way we should approach it. We compete/have competed horses and ponies, for many years, across a few disciplines and I can honestly say our competition animals are altogether happier horses when they are in full work and out competing than they are rin etirement.
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Years ago when I used to enjoy watching the SJ, horses weren't pushed to the extent they are now. The horses mostly looked as if they were having a jolly good time, not strapped down with huge amounts of tack and metal and riders barely in control . Of course there are still some very skilled horses and riders, but when the bad is celebrated, it's hard to enjoy these days.
 
meleeka said:
Years ago when I used to enjoy watching the SJ, horses weren't pushed to the extent they are now. The horses mostly looked as if they were having a jolly good time, not strapped down with huge amounts of tack and metal and riders barely in control . Of course there are still some very skilled horses and riders, but when the bad is celebrated, it's hard to enjoy these days.
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This just isn't true.

Firstly, they actually jumped bigger. The fences were also more solid and fell less easily. The courses were not as technical though. The puissance had no rules for amount of time horses would jump.

Secondly, there has always been a fair amount of tack on some horses. There were just less hackamore combined bits. Also some horses looked pretty miserable doing it but still carried on. Nowadays if they don't want to do the job with poles being so light then they won't. Rules have changed for the better. Horses having several large cracks with a whip just would never be tolerated now and riders pull up if it's not going well rather than keep going.
 
I've just watched the Puissance... Even my non horsey in-laws were shocked by the riding style of the Irish on the chestnut. How are we supposed to keep our social license to ride, if we have examples like that riding at international level? And we all just allow it and say it "entertaining riding style" as the commentator put it. You can clearly see the discomfort of the horse. If you can't, then I'm sorry, you are blind.

Rachel on the other hand, as the commentator put it too, "back to very calm and stylish riding", as it should be at that bloody level!
 
ester said:
They aren't really at the same level though, Andrew only has as much FEI experience as the horse does as discussed earlier (and presumably invited because of his Dublin puissance result), Rachel has pages and pages of FEI results.
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Puissance is niche now. Tbh it takes a horse who isn't really compatible with modern sjing hence you only see Puissance very rarely now (uk/Eire) and full of mediocre horses. They will often just do 6 bars as well. I personally think it's done as a class. I hate watching it. It's super interesting, considering how much ability has been bred into horses now that nobody has tried to take on Nick Skeltons high jump record. I think that says a lot as well.
 
ester said:
They aren't really at the same level though, Andrew only has as much FEI experience as the horse does as discussed earlier (and presumably invited because of his Dublin puissance result), Rachel has pages and pages of FEI results.
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So basically we give PETA and other animal rights group as much ammunition as possible by inviting someone who clearly needs to gain more experience and technique before competing at major international level?
 
Four Seasons said:
I've just watched the Puissance... Even my non horsey in-laws were shocked by the riding style of the Irish on the chestnut. How are we supposed to keep our social license to ride, if we have examples like that riding at international level? And we all just allow it and say it "entertaining riding style" as the commentator put it. You can clearly see the discomfort of the horse. If you can't, then I'm sorry, you are blind.

Rachel on the other hand, as the commentator put it too, "back to very calm and stylish riding", as it should be at that bloody level!
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I disagree with the criticism of Andrew’s riding. The horse I totally agree was running an anxiety and adrenaline not excitement and shouldn’t be doing puissance just because it can, it’s clearly too much for it.

But Andrew actually rides that horse far better than a lot of what you see on the circuit, if you watch his other rounds he rides it in a snaffle on a long rein and soft contact and actually rides it off his seat and leg, which is obviously the horses preferred way of going and doesn’t like being held in the mouth hence the long reins. I think he likely ran it into the wall tactfully for that reason rather than getting at its mouth the whole time rather than out of desperation. It’s clearly a quirky horse that he’s learned a strategy for riding and keeping as calm as possible. I think he’s a nice rider and better than a lot of what you see bitted up to the eyeballs.
 
Is there an update on the rider that fell in the puissance? He looked pretty dazed when he got up and the horse clipped him in at least one place with a hoof.
 
I accept Andrew rode the Chestnut well, considering what he was up against. But my view is that the horse should not have been in the ring at all, and all those commentators and crowds cheering them on made me feel a bit ill. But he won a lot of money and I doubt the horse is much good for anything else at elite level, or rideable for an amateur, so it gives him a job I guess.

Myka had her 2nd look at small XC style fences today and went very green over the first few, massively over-jumping. She settled quickly but I showed a very experienced rider at the farm a couple of pics joking 'and this is why a pro is doing the firsts!' and the reply was 'oh she's loving that!'. But it's not enthusiasm, it's inexperience.' Is that just not understood even by experienced riders, commentators and crowds - who in most sports are quite knowledgeable about that they are seeing. (In snooker they always know exactly when the pot goes in leaving the other player needing snookers for example).

I do sometimes wonder if I am now seeing things that aren't there, or whether I used to miss seeing it. Or a bit of both. I don't think Rachel's horse being too fired up to stand for booting meant anything. So am I kidding myself or are others overlooking that a super-talented, super fit competition horse mid competition is inevitably going to have his blood up but that does not mean he is stressed/unhappy. And how would we ever really know either way.
 
TheOldTrout said:
Is there an update on the rider that fell in the puissance? He looked pretty dazed when he got up and the horse clipped him in at least one place with a hoof.
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I think Nathan was fine, they showed him walking back to the warm up and interviewed him after and he said he was just relieved his horse was ok after they’d got her back and checked her over.
 
I loved Glamourdale and Bomb. Beautiful riding and tests. Both were well judged as Bomb hasn't got the wow of Glammy or the piaffe. Becky rides him so harmoniously and the transitions to the brilliant music were amazing.
Didn't like Charlotte's music but she held a young green horse together well until the last movement where her spur use made me cringe. She looked very tense throughout imo.
The Norwegian's horse's 5th leg in the prize giving was funny. Such a look at me boy!
 
Ample Prosecco said:
I accept Andrew rode the Chestnut well, considering what he was up against. But my view is that the horse should not have been in the ring at all, and all those commentators and crowds cheering them on made me feel a bit ill. But he won a lot of money and I doubt the horse is much good for anything else at elite level, or rideable for an amateur, so it gives him a job I guess.
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Shanaclough Luichew is a reasonably successful 1.35-1.40 horse with a good record. If you watch his other rounds he jumps a nice round.

I don’t know why they do puissance with him though as he clearly doesn’t enjoy it.
 
Only saw a bit of the dressage and saw one rider doing what can only be described as pony club kicks..... Didnt really sit well with me . Also did not like the welcome CDJ got. Over the top and her waving at the crowd p...d me off. She did what she did and was punished for it but to welcome her like a hero??? No not for me. Im not suggesting she was booed but a cooler welcome would have been better imo
 
splashgirl45 said:
I loved Glamourdale , he has improved a lot and thought he deserved to win but must admit I was willing Becky on, his piaffe lets him down at the moment but everything else looks pretty good . I didn’t like the 3rd horse as its chin was on its chest most of the time , the way he carried out the movements and his extravagant paces shouldn’t have been marked as high with that outline. I had hoped the judges had stopped rewarding the overbent tense tests
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It shows that judging just hasn't moved on. I thought they were now rewarding more open frames but clearly not. V disappointing.
 
Sandstone1 said:
Only saw a bit of the dressage and saw one rider doing what can only be described as pony club kicks..... Didnt really sit well with me . Also did not like the welcome CDJ got. Over the top and her waving at the crowd p...d me off. She did what she did and was punished for it but to welcome her like a hero??? No not for me. Im not suggesting she was booed but a cooler welcome would have been better imo
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I cheered for her when she entered. It takes some balls to face that crowd not knowing what sort of response you would get. Shes done more for dressage (including the wearing of helmets) than the rest of us put together. Shes paid her penance and been absolutely slaughtered by the public. She's had a tactful return to competing and I (and several thousand others) were pleased to see her.
 
I don't think cdj was cheered more of a hero than any of the other GB competitors and I agree, she rode a hot, greenish mare quite well through what must have been quite a nervous return to competition. I think people are reading more into it than what was there. She can't hide away for life.

I quite liked the Turkish horse and rider apart from the heavy use of the crank, but he wasn't tucked in at all.
 
KikiDee said:
Shanaclough Luichew is a reasonably successful 1.35-1.40 horse with a good record. If you watch his other rounds he jumps a nice round.

I don’t know why they do puissance with him though as he clearly doesn’t enjoy it.
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Oh well then it makes it doubly odd that they put themselves through it! But I'm glad that is not how he always goes!
 
Four Seasons said:
So basically we give PETA and other animal rights group as much ammunition as possible by inviting someone who clearly needs to gain more experience and technique before competing at major international level?
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you must have read a different post to the one I wrote.
 
Are the soft hands in the room with us?!

I'm not sure long reins and a snaffle mean all that much if you're hanging your body weight off them? Am I going mad?! Is this not what I'm seeing?

I am struggling to see how multiple senior people will have looked at this, and gone yeah let's do it again, at LIHS, and televised on BBC. And then let that continue for multiple rounds both time.

ETA - not trying to get into 'pile on' here. I just genuinely am not getting it.
 
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I'll leave the critique as don't want to feel like a pile on.
However, I will say the rider of the chestnut has the same style with long reins and a chair seat, in videos of him on other horses including 4 and 5yros.
So I don't think it's a particular style he has just for this horse
 
Watched the above video (thanks ester) at 1.03. Irrespective of our views on whether or not puissance has a place, this is what I saw. The rider has light hands, light seat, no spurs and he sits as lightly as possible on a horse intent on going flat out. Those of us who watched the final round at the LIHS (I saw it on iplayer) , seeing the same combination's final round at 57.09 in the iplayer video will note the same things and also that the rider lost both stirrups during his final jump, stayed balanced and light on top of the horse, and without a flinch or falter, just regained them by feel, no looking down, while concentrating on smoothly calmly persuading the horse to slow down. Yes the rider has an unusual seat but he's in balance with the horse and he's light on the horse.
 
SaddlePsych'D said:
Are the soft hands in the room with us?!

I'm not sure long reins and a snaffle mean all that much if you're hanging your body weight off them? Am I going mad?! Is this not what I'm seeing?

I am struggling to see how multiple senior people will have looked at this, and gone yeah let's do it again, at LIHS, and televised on BBC. And then let that continue for multiple rounds both time.

ETA - not trying to get into 'pile on' here. I just genuinely am not getting it.
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Go and watch his other rounds on the same horse i.e his normal Grand Prix rounds. I looked them up as I was curious how on earth this horse ever gets around a course of jumps! It’s a very different picture. The horse didn’t handle the pressure of the puissance well and I think Andrew did what he had to do get it round. Arguably perhaps he should have retired but I guess there’s a lot of prize money at stake and high level competition horses are a business model at the end of the day. In his interview after they did say they think puissance blows his mind a bit so I’d be interested to see if they compete him again in that format or decide it’s not for him.
 
I was at the show today, same Irish rider who I hadn’t seen ride in the puissance and honestly was appalled, chair seat, hanging on the horses mouth, really horrible to watch. Generally good standard of riding overall, plenty of riders choosing to save their horses rather than pushing too much. I enjoyed the lippizaners too, I think I might go to the jumping again rather than the dressage which I watched on catch up and left me rather cold, the quality of the field just isn’t there anymore compared to before it moved venue and personally I don’t want to sit there and clap Charlotte like I used to.
 
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