long & low or asking for bend ? advice please *vid*

[NeverSayNever]

im still trying to get to grips with Chaz's flatwork and am not yet getting the consistency I know he is capable of. My duff riding

He doesnt have a long attention span, infact my RI says it's often that of a gnat, lol. Just as we get a nice shape, he spots something, a leaf, or bird and goes all giraffe again. I do lots of transitions, loops, serpentines etc to try and keep his attention on me but its not always easy,lol.

Now, Ive managed to get him working nicely in lessons when I am firm with him and as was discussed in the interesting thread the other day, I have been learning to take a much stronger hand/contact and directly ask for bend. He is also a stubborn lad at times and often we have a battle and he sets against me before he will soften.

However today i was schooling on my own and tried a happy mouth roller and a different approach. I worked on long and low and trying to get him to seek and take the contact down himself. In the vid you can see the contact is inconsistent and my reins go loose at times... so should i carry on like this? i had to keep my hands low and wide... but as soon as i try to bend my elbows more we loose it,so should i stick with it for longer and gradually try and bring him in and my hands up? feeling a bit yuck about it tbh, as i know its me as he worked really nicely for his last owner,ive only had him 3 months tho.



thankyou... dont be too harsh please

 

[1life]

. My duff riding


feeling a bit yuck about it tbh, as i know its me as he worked really nicely for his last owner,ive only had him 3 months tho.

Don't be so hard on yourself. To your credit you are not sawing and creating a false outline which is often what occurs as riders get frustrated. How much suppling work do you do in your warm-up? To my mind (and yes, it is hard to judge from a short video) I would say he looks like he could do with some more work (in the walk) using leg yield, smaller circles, shoulder in/fore to increase his suppleness and also to bring the whole length of your leg down and around him.I always teach to make the outline almost the last thing on your list. Working most neddies through to activate hindquarters (and then harnessing this) will usually bring an outline.
Good Luck
Oh, and it takes a while to form a partnership....be patient

 

[daydreambeliever]

I'm not very good at this sort of thing but being as you have no other replies yet..... I would try and sit up a bit taller, shoulders back a bit and use your seat and legs to push him into the contact. It looks to me that by straightening your arms to hold your hands low its making you tip forward a bit, and that will make him go on his forehand instead of working from behind.

He looks a lovely horse and i'm sure with a bit more time you will have him going in a way you are happy with

 

[Firewell]

I think your doing well!

Personally I would work him like you are in the vid to warm up and cool down. Then I would do what your RI says and get him really moving into a firm, consistent contact in the middle when hes properly working, to get him more connected

 

[Kokopelli]

It looks like he isn't using his hind quarters as good as he can. Does he have more woah then go? Or more go then woah?

 

[Munchkin]

My first thought was that you need to lift his shoulder, not bring his head down. He's already on the forehand and trying to bring his head "in" will just make him hollow more to balance himself.

Try to sit up, get your shoulders back, bend your elbows, forget about his head and concentrate on pushing his back end under you. The consistency in the contact will come with balance, and that balance will come from him using himself correctly.

With his hocks under him he will be able to lift the shoulder and from there will drop onto a contact and be nicely balanced. Trying to bring a horse's head down when the front end is already too low will only result in the horse taking choppier strides as they try not to fall face first into the ground

Good luck, nice horse you have there

 

[Mavis Cluttergusset]

Looking at the video, he looks a lot like my horse in the way he goes. He looks like he isn't really working from behind. I have been working on a lot of leg yielding lately, to try to encourage her to really step underneath and use her back and rear end properly. We always start straight away on a smallish circle, with my hands wide and low, and any transitions are always done in leg yield. My horse really wants me to hold her in an outline (I think she has probably been ridden in draw reins in the dim and distant past) and is reluctant to soften down into a contact. I am really bad at setting against her, and something my instructor suggested was for me to ride with my hands upside down. This (surprisingly!) gives you a really delicate feel and prohibits any sort of battle. I found that my horse really accepted the consistent contact this offered, and coupled with lots of leg yielding this has really improved her way of going. Any time she tries to battle with me I respond with my leg not my hand. I also suffer with her dreadful attention span, she will usually fixate on something to gawp at or spook at, so I have to anticipate when this will be and divert her with a transition or something (anything) to keep her focus on me.

Is he lazy?

 

[NeverSayNever]

thank you, that all makes good sense. I know one of my worst habits is tipping forward... im trying to sit up more and believe it or not, in that vid its an improved picture! I had a fall at Easter and i was on crutches a while and now my hips are still tight, and for some reason when I sit right up i dont have the same strength in my legs but im really working on it.

Is he lazy ?

weeell,lol. First thought to this would be no!! he is really forward going, responds to slightest of aids and is a wee speed demon etc BUT is he lazy about using himself properly? - then im just discovering the answer is yes!

 

[Kokopelli]

thank you, that all makes good sense. I know one of my worst habits is tipping forward... im trying to sit up more and believe it or not, in that vid its an improved picture! I had a fall at Easter and i was on crutches a while and now my hips are still tight, and for some reason when I sit right up i dont have the same strength in my legs but im really working on it.

Is he lazy ?

weeell,lol. First thought to this would be no!! he is really forward going, responds to slightest of aids and is a wee speed demon etc BUT is he lazy about using himself properly? - then im just discovering the answer is yes!

The wizzy horses are the laziest as they have to do less they're also the smartest!

So by the looks of it, you seem to be un-willing to put enough leg on due to the speed he goes. You really need to work on slowing the front end and don't be afraid to put your leg on as he will not go round unless you use firm leg. Their head goes round because there hind quarters go underneath them which makes there spine round.

My boy is a lot like this except he doesn't always stop when I say, if your horse ever does this stand him on his head as my instrcutor says! Literally make him stop you won't have to do this more then once.

He also looks a tad wooden, if this isn't fixed when you start using more leg you need to do a lot of lateral work. Leg yielding, shoulder in and perhaps even demi- pirouttes (this will also get him using his hind legs and off the forehand.

Best of luck

 

[NeverSayNever]

ahhhhhhhhhhh haaa! *light bulb* when i bought him, his old owner said "he will make you think he doesnt need much leg, but he does" at the time i was confused... now i get it!! thank you.

 

[Kokopelli]

ahhhhhhhhhhh haaa! *light bulb* when i bought him, his old owner said "he will make you think he doesnt need much leg, but he does" at the time i was confused... now i get it!! thank you.

No problem, I love them light bulb moments! Best of luck with him he looks stunning

 

[prieot]

I noticed on the video that on the right rein he lifts his head each time you sit to the saddle.

Only raised it 'cause my boy was doing the same recently ...and I have no idea why he's doing this other than slight lameness (my boy that is).

Sorry to take you off on a tangent

 

[sydneysmum]

I think probably doing lots of transitions walk, trot, walk, halt, walk, halt etc will help both with his attention span and in bringing his hocks more underneath him; anywhere between 50 and 100 per schooling session. I know this sounds a lot but it certainly gets their attention and gets them working from behind

 

[brighteyes]

Are his teeth OK? If so, more leg and flexion if he comes back up at you - but always more leg than hand. He's not using his backend and looks slight built downhill (but could be an optical illusion as he is going on the forehand)? Lots to like and you sit well/tidily. I think transitions and lateral work/moving away from your leg, too, to get him listening and thinking. I feel that although you don't want to be letting him off lightly and giving you 50%, it is early days into the partnership. Nice horse.

 

[Dizzle]

I would work on more transitions, 51 second video without one, tut tut young lady!

Count every transition you do in half an hour, each session try and work in more, start with progressive and then move onto direct transtions. I am a HUGE fan of walk to canter, it really gets them thinking forward but collected and gets thier hocks under them.

Leg yield in trot gets him off the leg then ask for a canter transition.
Figure of 8's, do a half 20m circle then across the diagonal and repeat on the other rein, build in transtions across the long diagonal, great exercise for getting them supple and listening to you.

I would bring your shoulder's back and raise your hands a little, work on getting him forward, soft and supple and the rest will follow, have a nice light elasic contact on the reins and get him working forwards into it.

Hope that helps!

 

[blitznbobs]

To me you look like you're pinning the front end a bit and he is definitely not going forward enough. Create the energy with the lower leg and 'hold it' with your thighs if he is 'whizzy'. I would agree with your instructor that you need more contact than that as he is not really in an out line and is certainly not working thru his top line. You sit nice and still but if you could rotate the whole picture of you back by 10 degrees ie lift your hands up and push your shoulders back a little you'll probably find the outline improves... I also echo the transitions but if he's a bit green transitions within the pace are great - lengthen the trot on the long and shorten it on the shorts sides then if you get that working lengthen trot and into collected on a 10 meter circle and all of a sudden you'll have his shoulders coming up, his hocks working harder and a big grin on your face...


Blitz

 

[NeverSayNever]

thank you for all the advice here - i tried to take it onboard. Is this any better?

http://www.youtube.com/user/13neens?feature=mhw4#p/a/u/0/gI22bAsrPFY

 

[Kokopelli]

Thats a big improvement I would still like to see a bit more leg though

Bend your arms a bit more aswell, you should have a 90 degree angle at your elbows and your still trying to fix his head a bit and acting like side reins, but it does look much better well done

 

[NeverSayNever]

Thats a big improvement I would still like to see a bit more leg though

Bend your arms a bit more aswell, you should have a 90 degree angle at your elbows and your still trying to fix his head a bit and acting like side reins, but it does look much better well done

thank you .. yup more leg and more impulsion, got my homework re 90degrees.. you know, should it really? i mean, ive actually tried that i dont know if just the way im made, but my hands end up really high and we lose the whole thing. correct me if im wrong, but yours are more like 45degrees in your sig i can achieve that i think... and you're not the first to mention it either, lol... but my RI is constantly telling me to keep my hands down too thank you, really, im glad you think it looks better, at least i know we are heading the right way.

ETA hope that didnt sound cheeky, i really appreciate the advice, i do find this whole thing rather hard! lol

 

[MissTyc]

Gorgeous horse! I think I would stay in rising trot for now - he doesn't look very strong through his topline and seems to be in some discomfort in the front end, which is more than likely due to sitting the trot (nothing to do with weight! You look like you weight nothing!!). If you ride like in this new video, thinking forwards, light seat, a bit more flexibility through your arms (he looks a little restricted, which again can be caused by sitting the trot before the horse's frame can support this), but ride instead of sit I think you'll see almost immediate improvement. He's gorgeous either way!

ETA: I like where your hands are - nice and low on a young horse. But would like to see more "spring"/elasticity in them .. if that makes sense. I'm terrible at explaining!

 

[Louby]

You certainly dont have duff riding he just looks like he needs to be a bit more active from behind.
I think you need to forget about the front end for the moment and use your legs more to get him going forwards and using his back end. The front end will come once hes using himself properly.
Personally I wouldnt keep your hands low and wide, I would raise them so you have a bend in your elbows, this should help you keep your shoulders back and prevent you tilting.
You both look really good, keep it up

 

[blitznbobs]

It's definitely better but the hands thing is going to be a problem for you. It's a falacy that low hands lead to low, round head/neck outline... Have you ever seen a pro dressage rider with low hands ever? If it worked everyone would be doing it. I agree with the others forget about the front end and work on the back end. Oh and rise in the trot, sitting trot incourages you to shorten the stride and on a horse that's top line isn't developed can cause hollowing in itself. There should be a straight line from the bit rings thru' your hands to your elbows. This allows the most elasticity of the front end allowing the horse to move more correctly. Low and wide allows the energy to run thru' the horses shoulders and gives them a route for evasion. He has a nice forward canter lots of canter trot transitions should improve your trot and by improving your trot this in turn will improve your canter.

HTH

Bx

 

[Bowen4Horses]

lovely little horse, and you're NOT a duff rider!

i agree that he really needs to work more from behind. you need to create the impulsion like a spring in his hind legs.

i agree with blitznbobs that you need to life your hands up a smidge. i know there are lots of different ways of riding, and more recently this 'low and wide' hand trend is taking off... but personally i think they should be a bit higher. from your hands to your elbow you have to think of it like an extension to your rein... so it should be a straight line from bit to elbow. and they should be an elasticated extension at that.

also, drop your heels and WRAP those lovely legs around him. use you leg to give aid, not your heel. wrap wrap wrap it round and use it when you need it. have you tried carrying a schooling whip? squeeze with as much of your leg as you can (don't be tempted to lift your heel) and if he doesn't respond to the first squeeze try a tap with the whip, or even a wiggle of it.

when you get his back end going forwards the 'outline' will come, as will the 'long and low' as your hands will start to act as the 'exit' gate for all the energy he has coming from behind.

again, he's a lovely horse, and you're riding him very sweetly, keep on, you'll get there!

p.s. when his attention starts to go... nip it in the bud, as soon as he looks like he's thinking about looking at something else, gently jingle the rein to remind him it's work time. he'll learn very quickly not to look around for distractions. xx