Long post warning...but could do with some thoughts from HHO'ers

Nickles1973

Nickles1973

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This is going to be long so I appologise in advance.
My ex-racer (seen here http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=10836556#post10836556 ) is very straight in his hind legs and getting him to move from behind has always been a challenge. At the end of last year after lots of lessons we were beginning to get some really nice work and he was beginning to find usually trickier movements easier.
Then just after new year he went lame on his ns front which took about a month to get a diagnosis for and then the big freeze hit us. All this meant that it was almost 4 months before I could start working him in the school fully again by which time a degree of his stiffness behind had returned.
He has always slightly dragged both hind toes in trot untill he is pushed up into a nice forward trot but his stiffness behind shows mostly by him struggling to maintain canter around corners on the right rein. (should say that when the vet was checking on his ns front lameness I asked him to also check him out behind too with flexions and lunging and vet was satisfied that he was fine)
I had a couple of lessons in May and he was looking much better again. Not quite back to where we were but my instructor was happy with the work we were doing. I took him out to a show on Jubilee weekend and we came 1st in our ridden and in hand classes. :D
Then 2 weeks ago he had a freak accident in the field. I do not have any idea how this could of happened but his field buddy (23 year old 14hh pony) somehow put his front leg through the leg strap of George's rug. (George is 16.3hh) They were found stuck together sort of dancing around the field. We have no idea how long they were like this but my yo found them and seperated them and miraculously other than a slight rub on the inside of George's leg there were no other obvious injuries.
However since then George has been stiffer than ever. He is struggling with canter on both reins and generally doesn't feel quite right.
My first thought is that having 450kg's of pony hanging off your rear end with the obvious pull of the rug over his shoulders, withers and back might be enough to make him sore and stiff all over. So last week I called an Equine Bowen therapist who saw him on Thursday and proclaimed that he was sore virtually all over. She has said that after 3 treatments he should be fine.
Thing is part of me wonders if it's possible for him to still be stiff 2 weeks after this rug incident? Is what happened likely to have caused him to be so soreee considering there were hardly any outward signs that it even happened?
Also have I done the right thing by calling in a back person or should I have called the vet? Bare in mind though that I have had others watch me ride him and they have said that he doesn't look lame as such, more lacking forwardness and a little tight behind.
Sorry for this becomming a bit of a ramble, just think I would like some reassurance that I'm doing the right thing. If you've got this far well done and have some Pimms and strawberries on me :D
 
I would say you have done the right thing. He may have struggled and panicked when pony first got stuck and pulled something.

If you don't start seeing and improvement after his treatment then I would call a vet
 
Bowed? Mmm not a fan. Is have the vet, personally, and also think about a bite trial. Probably time to have a closer look at the hocks too.
 
IMHO think it's a sensible course of action. He isn't lame, so vet not really necessary. If you've ever tweaked something you'll know it can take a while to settle, especially if it's making you move in a slightly restricted way it puts other areas under stress. Try the Bowen, & if you still aren't happy ask the vet to refer you to physio/osteo. It may be worth trying some homeopathic remedies to help settle any inflammation / bruising. At least then you know you aren't masking any symptoms, so you can see exactly how he is doing.
 
As you've started with the Bowen, you may as well do the course and see if it releases the tension. A reputable Bowen practitioner should not treat a horse without the vet being informed.

It is not unusual for soreness to persist for months or even years if the cause of the soreness is not dealt with.
 
I have a mare with issues behind, that we originally thought stemmed from an accident she had as a youngster where she pulled a deep seated hind quarter muscle, however more recently it has turned out she had suspensory issues, even though several other vets have all said it was higher up. She presents with similar issues to yours, although has a very big trot, even though she actually has problems with both back legs, she mainly only looks lame on one back leg, on a circle, on one rein.
 
Thank you for your replies so far. Can I just ask why those of you that mentioned not liking Bowen prefer a different approach?
I have had a Chiro and a Mctimmony practitioner in the past for routine treaments but this Bowen therapist is recommended by my farrier. He feels she has been extremely helpful in treating lameness in one of his driving ponies which has so far elluded AHT vets even after £3000 of diagnostic tests.
I have to admit to being a little apprehensive but feel that now I have started I should at least have the second treatment and then decide how to proceed from there.
 
Personally I have found Bowen Therapy to be invaluable. The chestnut mare in my pics had lots of trouble with her back. Before that pic was taken she was at one point unrideable as she'd just put her head in the air and her ears went back whenever I put my leg. My own vet said she looked lame on all 4 legs with a rider on board. He referred her to a large vet school and when I took her down they did a trial where they gave her strong painkillers (without telling me) and I rode her - she was vastly better and they agreed. X-rays and a scintigrapghy scan showed nothing of any significance and I was sent home with a course of bute. When this didn't help I was advised to send her to a schooling yard (attached to the vet school). I spoke to the lady that ran the place and she started talking about using draw reins. It was clear everyone thought this was behavioural....despite the painkillers having an effect. I knew my Horse, and knew this was not behavioural.

I was at my wits end when I came across a leaflet about an equine Bowen Therapist in my area. I got her out and she found muscle spasm all down her back. It was really obvious, even I could see the reaction. After 4 treatments, and follow up ground work (long reining and lungeing) she was a different Horse. At some point she obviously must have done something that caused the injury, but what that was I'll never know.

Bowen is a wonderful therapy. I have seen it done many times on different Horses and the effect is always good. When the Horse that I have now suddenly started refusing jumps I got the Bowen lady out. Another Horse must have stood on the outside of his hoof, half pulled the shoe off at the same time (I had a hell of a job getting the shoe off it was so badly twisted). It pulled a muscle in his hindquarters. After 2 treatments he was as good as new.

It is however illegal for a Bowen Therapist to treat your Horse without the permission of your vet. For anything significant I would always get the vet out first and they are usually very happy with Physio / Bowen being done. With the Horse I have now I didn't get the vet out but spoke to them on the phone and they were happy for me to try the Bowen first. With my chestnut horse I absolutely agree that she needed to have all the scans and X-rays first.
 
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The horse could still be sore, yes, but I would be also considering possible problems with the hocks - possible spavin and also suspensory ligament issues - it might be better to get these issues addressed and hopefully ruled out. I would also have called a proper qualified equine physio.
 
amymay said:
Bowed? Mmm not a fan. Is have the vet, personally, and also think about a bite trial. Probably time to have a closer look at the hocks too.
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LOL, Amymay, are you drunk or posting by phone?

Oh bu**er, I didn't see the rest of the thread, that fell a bit flat didn't it? Sorry, reminder to self, check for further posts before trying to be funny!!!

OP, for what it is worth I think you are doing the right thing.
 
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Don't think what you are doing is wrong although sounds like there had been issues before the pony incident so, after the Bowen treatments, if there's still a problem I think I'd be either getting the vet out or thermal imaging as suggested by someone else.

I use Claire at www.theinnerpicture.com and it's with her help that I had a starting point with my mare that there was pain in her heels.
 
All sounds very like hind suspensories to me...I'd be for getting an equine vet specialising in lameness and getting a full work up done.
 
amage said:
All sounds very like hind suspensories to me...I'd be for getting an equine vet specialising in lameness and getting a full work up done.
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Me too , while bowen equine touch etc etc are valuable in making horses feel better .
It is not a diagnosis of the issue and that's what you need a work up from an equine vet then if it's soft tissue issues that can be helped with by it it my choice would be a equine physio used to working with that vet.
Not log ago a knew a horse where the owner spent a fortune on Bowen for its back it was clear to me the issue was the hocks eventully when I could bare it no longer I stepped in and persuaded the owner to get the vet it was so lame after flexion it could not put the leg to the ground all that Bowen had been a complete waste of money.
Diagnosis that's the important thing and you need a vet for that or risk tinkering at the edges while something nasty is going on.
 
Holly Hocks said:
The horse could still be sore, yes, but I would be also considering possible problems with the hocks - possible spavin and also suspensory ligament issues - it might be better to get these issues addressed and hopefully ruled out. I would also have called a proper qualified equine physio.
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Agree with this, but id get the vet first, the horses conformation is already predisposed to suspensory issues, and if anyone told me my horse was sore all over, id want to know why and discuss investigations and analgesia with my vet.
The bowen therapy will help, but imo your horse should see a vet
 
Thank you everyone for your replies. I must admit that I am concerned by how I can have owned my horse for three years and gradually increased his work and his fitness with some success when it seems to be obvious to many of you from a post and a photograph that he might possibly have such a serious condition as hind suspensory damage.
I have had regular lessons throughout this time with 6 different instructors (3 of which are extremely well qualified including 1 BD listed dressage judge) And yet not one of them has suggested to me that he looks like he may have SI issues or suspensory damage? I should also say that as I mentioned in my original post he was lunged and hind leg flexion tested by a very experienced vet when he was recently examined for his front lamness. This vet was also satisfied that his range of movement was consistent with a horse that had his history and build. (which he also stated was not as bad as I made out)
However, I cannot ignore all the comments made and will admit to spending a lot of time worrying today that I must be a very unperceptive and uncaring owner to have not noticed he is so obviously afflicted. I will of course have a very carefull look at my horse tomorrow and have a chat with my vet when I next make one of my regular phone calls as is the norm when you own a TB. :-(
 
However, I cannot ignore all the comments made and will admit to spending a lot of time worrying today that I must be a very unperceptive and uncaring owner to have not noticed he is so obviously afflicted. I will of course have a very carefull look at my horse tomorrow and have a chat with my vet when I next make one of my regular phone calls as is the norm when you own a TB. :-(
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Two posters have mentioned suspensory ligaments, only. My own personal view is that it would be worth looking in to the hocks properly as if he were my horse I would be considering a spavin problem.

Bowen is great for assisting in treatment. But what you have to remember is that back and lumber pain is often a manifestation of something going on in the feet or joints (fetlock, knee, hock). So my money would first be spent on a diagnosis from the vet, with back up afterwards to help with associated pain and stiffness from a good physio.
 
Nickles1973 said:
Thank you everyone for your replies. I must admit that I am concerned by how I can have owned my horse for three years and gradually increased his work and his fitness with some success when it seems to be obvious to many of you from a post and a photograph that he might possibly have such a serious condition as hind suspensory damage.
I have had regular lessons throughout this time with 6 different instructors (3 of which are extremely well qualified including 1 BD listed dressage judge) And yet not one of them has suggested to me that he looks like he may have SI issues or suspensory damage? I should also say that as I mentioned in my original post he was lunged and hind leg flexion tested by a very experienced vet when he was recently examined for his front lamness. This vet was also satisfied that his range of movement was consistent with a horse that had his history and build. (which he also stated was not as bad as I made out)
However, I cannot ignore all the comments made and will admit to spending a lot of time worrying today that I must be a very unperceptive and uncaring owner to have not noticed he is so obviously afflicted. I will of course have a very carefull look at my horse tomorrow and have a chat with my vet when I next make one of my regular phone calls as is the norm when you own a TB. :-(
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Ok whoah nobody is trying to say you are an uncaring owner. I am speaking from experience, my mare was basically sound but a bit off, didn't want to go forwards, no swelling no obvious lameness to the extent that I was told it was all in my head. Then a tiny patch of heat formed in front....went to a lameness specialist who has since become a close friend and we did a full work up....Leo and behold both hind suspensories needed medicated. Now I went to this vet more to see was I imagining things than for any other reason and it transpires there was an issue. Until I went to her it could have been me writing your OP. My girl was jumping better than ever and to anyone who didn't know her and even a lot of people who did she looked perfect. She was medicated brought back to work and has been brilliant. I sadly had to retire her due to a fractured sesamoid a month ago. When we did the work up and scans for fractured sesamoid vet checked out the hind suspensories and they were perfect still 12 months on from treatment. I'm sorry I wouldn't have bothered replying if I knew how upset you would get but it just sounds familiar and it is not a reflection on you as an owner. My vet described it as the kind of niggle we all get in our own bodies that we ignore and its not until it's gone we realise how much it affected us. Just my tuppence worth again sorry if I offended you that was not my intention.
 
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