Long term lameness PTS/field ornament- Thoughts

McNally

McNally

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 February 2009
Messages
1,579
Visit site
I have a horse who currently is being kept comfy on cortisone injections. He has a long term problem in his fetlock which is not fixable all i can do is make it feel as good as possible.
I took him on after his owner decided to pts (why will become apparent!) I didn't take him on to be my "riding horse" but because i was employed to look after him (sole use owner never rode or anything) and i loved the bones of him! I wanted to try things she wouldn't and i couldn't as he wasn't mine.
Its working as such. He has cortisone jabs and bute if needed as its wearing off. When he's ok he loves to hack quietly. I am aware that these injections become less effective over time and eventually wont help him.
This leaves me with a dilemma! He is 16.2 heavy Irish Hunter type who hates being stabled- He cribs/windsucks horrendously and is very destructive (rugs fencing stables etc!) so i don't think him being a companion to someone else is an option.
My fields are too small in my opinion to live long term if he is not being ridden (for his own benefit not mine) If i had Interesting land i would keep him as long as he was happy but for an unridden horse to be kept in 24/7 i dont think fair?
If i can hack in walk for 30 mins twice a week say i think this is a minimum to give him a quality of life.
Where though, when the time comes he cant be ridden does this leave us? It was always said he would be pts when this is the case.....but now i am thinking as the last injection appears not to be working yet that he's ok he doesn't look like he needs putting down, other than the fact he's lame (he happily puts weight on it grazing)

Whats everyones thoughts on this? I hope i've explained it well!
 
Last edited:
I wouldnt PTS.

"he's ok he doesn't look like he needs putting down, other than the fact he's lame (he happily puts weight on it grazing)"
 
Putting to sleep with kindnes and care OR keeping him alive while he is comfortable and his needs can be met(physical and psycological) are both responsible and moral decisions. You can choose whichever you want. Hope you find the choice that brings you peace. My horse is also lame ,since feb, and the vet has not found the cause. Next year I wall have to make the same decision.
 
I think you are going to have to constantly reassess his happiness/contentment whatever you want to call it or how you name it!

If your fields are that small that he isn't getting a decent leg stretch then you have to ask, how different is that to being stabled 24/7, if he can't get out and see a bit of the world?

Having said that, some horses don't seem to care less about being lame and standing and eating grass, while some stare into the distance looking miserable! Its only you who can tell really.

Personally, if he is no longer responding to the injections, can't be ridden, can't be stabled I would be thinking about PTS, BUT!!! that is just going on paperwork! there are an awful lot of lame horses in this country that potter around their fields quite happily, some are obviously more stoic than others. Being a heavyweight is against him and he may get worse more quickly when no longer exercised.

I don't envy you your decision, you know him best, but please don't feel guilty or question yourself whatever you decide. You know him best xx
 
I would not put hiim down unless he is suffering. From what I can see, he has a loving home, all his needs met. The only thing as far as is evident in your post is that his field is not really large or interesting. Do you really think this makes him so miserable he would be better off dead? Does he have company?
 
I meant to say, the little foalie in my avatar is now 17 years old and a field ornament. My fields are not huge, and in the winter she only gets out in the sand turnout for a few hours a day with her field mates. She gets lots of love, fuss and attention. She is in a mild amount of discomfort due to her shoulder tendon injury, but not on bute, though I guess I would put her on a small amount if I felt she was in pain. It's not the perfect life for a horse who loved being ridden, but it's better than death. I know she's a very happy horse because she is into everything, still learns new tricks (clicker training), and generally is the life and soul of the yard. Though I know that some on here would say she needs putting to sleep.
 
Last edited:
I have 2 field ornaments :-)
27 yo mare Who has a lifetime home, ive had her 16 years and owe her a good retirement as she was good to me and gave me years of fun and enjoyment.
14 yo gelding i got as a 3yo to event who was diagnosed with ocd as a 4yo..... I was devastated.His behaviour was really challenging and i learned so much from him, the bad behaviour was pain related, once dealt with he was much better, sadly only any use as a very light hack, he gets sore after about 20 mins, so decided to retire him as well.
If i was not in the position to keep both of these horses id have had both pts rather than rehome, one due to age, the other due to his nature as he struggles to cope with change and id worry he wasnt cared for correctly as both need daily danilon to keep them happy and comfy
 
I have an elderly gent who I have owned for 20 years, since he was 7, we had loads of great times together, even took him on holiday. anyway from him being about 16 he was/is intermitantly lame and was diagnosed with navicular. However he is still grazing happily in the fields with his pals, stabled in the winter just as my other horse is, loves being groomed, always first to the gate for breakfast or treats, loves being part of the herd, personally I think I owe it to him to give him the best I can for as long as he is a happy horse - So field ornament for me in answer to your question

:)
 
I think the crunch point for me would be the state of your land as much as anything else. My gut always says to put down if they can't exist without painkillers or the strength of those needed is too severe; that smacks to me of a selfish owner for not doing their best for the horse. I accept this is not the case for you so as I say, my start point would be the state of your ground and grazing. If it is good clean grazing with plenty of shelter (even if rugged, he still needs to have shelter due to lack of mobility) and it is not the size of a postage stamp then by all means carry on. But if your land is weed ridden or bare patches of over grazed land, prone to mudbaths in winter, scorching dry land in summer with nothing for him to graze at unless it is supplemented hay; that is when I would call it a day for definite so take a good hard look at your land and see if it suits him before you decide.
Basically, quality of life is more important than all the love and attention you can give him, I'm sorry.
 
I agree with Wagtail.

There are a vast number of horses who live on bute quite happily - if it works, use it. They can still have a quality of life. I know you way your fields arent interesting enough, but you can always put haylage in them and turn out, even if for a short period of time each day.

My old boy has arthritis in his knees now and has just had his shoes taken off as they have broken up so much, the farrier can't get shoes on him. To be honest, it's great if the farrier can get shoes on in a couple of months so that he can potter about the roads two or three times a week, but if not, then so be it. He is happy in the field with all his buddies. I think the horse will tell you when he's had enough.
BUT - only you know the horse well enough to make the decision and nobody has the right to criticise you if you decide to PTS. Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
Maesfen said:
I think the crunch point for me would be the state of your land as much as anything else. My gut always says to put down if they can't exist without painkillers or the strength of those needed is too severe; that smacks to me of a selfish owner for not doing their best for the horse. I accept this is not the case for you so as I say, my start point would be the state of your ground and grazing. If it is good clean grazing with plenty of shelter (even if rugged, he still needs to have shelter due to lack of mobility) and it is not the size of a postage stamp then by all means carry on. But if your land is weed ridden or bare patches of over grazed land, prone to mudbaths in winter, scorching dry land in summer with nothing for him to graze at unless it is supplemented hay; that is when I would call it a day for definite so take a good hard look at your land and see if it suits him before you decide.
Basically, quality of life is more important than all the love and attention you can give him, I'm sorry.
Click to expand...

This, every time. ^^^^^^^ A horrid decision and I do sympathise.
 
If you can provide him with the land and facilities needed to have him out 24/7 - ie shelter, good draining soil, ad lib hay and rugs, and can keep him comfortable on minimum pain relief, and give him company - then I would certainly give him a chance. If you can't, then pts.
 
Hi, thanks for your replies.
I'm not at this stage yet, It was more that i started wondering as this time the injection was given over a week ago but he's still trotting up lame. Usually it seems pretty quick and i wondered if this is the start of it wearing off.
The agreement i had with the owner was that if i took him on and he did become completely unrideable he would be pts. At the time i agreed, but then at the time i might well have said anything just to be given the chance with him. Now its been 3/4 weeks since i last took him for a wander but he doesn't look like a horse that needs putting down.

He has company- at all times as there is a retired pony in the next field so even if we are riding he's not alone (although the pony appears invisible he gets quite upset if we take the others hacking).
I am not 100% sure what the state of my fields will be like come winter as i only took it over in Spring- i am told they are "bottomless" which worries me!
We are in the process of building him a shelter which will either be chew proof or it just wont matter too much. It will have a gate on the front and be towable so my plan is to have it on the yard in winter so he can be in with the others and in his field in the summer for shade.
I just get the impression the last couple of weeks he's not so happy. I visit a minimum of 3 times a day (he's on my way to work) sometimes just for a hug! but i am worried i might keep him for my benefit rather than his as its not such a clear cut case as the other horses i have had to make a decision on.
Right now he's staying- even if it means i resort to in hand plods to keep him entertained but i really dont know how much longer or at what point i have to think.
 
Can you not just find a suitable "interesting" field for him somewhere close to you??? I paid £10 a week when my mare was turned away. Its no money really- i made sure she was checked on once a day and she was happy as larry :)

Im confident shes on the road to recovery though so it is a different situation.....

Death should be the VERY last option when the animal is suffering to the point where they cant enjoy themselves anymore.

IMO of course :) Im aware of all the other son here that disagree :rolleyes:
 
I had considered that but tbh in my area field livery is pretty unheard of. Also he gets seriously bullied- another reason he was being pts before i had him. Other horses seem to chase him round and firstly it makes the lameness worse as he never rests, and secondly he gets really distressed and spends all day windsucking looking miserable. He's one of those horses everything he's ever turned out with picks on!
Also his destructiveness is extreme- I get my horses rugs repaired often and replace bits of fencing, etc etc but its mine and he's my baby so i dont mind. I would however be really annoyed with him if he belonged so someone else!
 
Samantha008 said:
Death should be the VERY last option when the animal is suffering to the point where they cant enjoy themselves anymore.

IMO of course :) Im aware of all the other son here that disagree :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Surely you would PTS before an animal was suffering so much it couldn't enjoy itself? Does a horse enjoy itself per se? or does it just "enjoy" decent surroundings and a pain free life?
 
Samantha008 said:
Death should be the VERY last option when the animal is suffering to the point where they cant enjoy themselves anymore.

IMO of course :) Im aware of all the other son here that disagree :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

This isn't very helpful. Why would you wait until the horse is suffering so badly they can't enjoy themselves? Let the animal go before it starts to suffer. And rolling eye smileys don't help either...

McNally - what was the horse like before? Has he always been miserable or is a new thing? Sorry if I missed this earlier but does you give him some pain relief? I don't see a problem with keeping a horse comfortable with bute as long as you are realistic about when it's too much. Does he mind not having a job or is he fed up? If he is going to be happy and comfortable being a field ornament and you have the land/money to do that, then go for it. But if he's going to be miserable and uncomfortable, maybe the time has come.
 
I think Maesfen summed things up well. Horrible decision to make but at least you are thinking it through before it becomes urgent and you re thinking about the horse.
If your ground does get or starts to get bottomless and we get a wet winter then I would make the decision, otherwise I would look again in spring and summer to see how he is going.

From personal experience it seems easier to make the decision to let them go in warmer weather so that they are not going to have the cold wet wind and mud to deal with, but thats going to differ from person to person.

Whatever you decide well done for thinking things through and trying to do whats right for the horse.
 
I do hope I've misunderstood this...

Ask yourself this, is it more convienient for you or the horse to PTS? I HEAR THAT ALL TO OFTEN ON HERE!

I don't also agree that any horse should be put to sleep because your grazing is bad, chuck him hay in the meantime and sort out the grazing, as long as his pain is being controlled there is no need to PTS.

Sorry but I get very annoyed when people here as if they should do that, when what is really apparent is that pts is more convient for the owner/ carer and not the best for the horse.
 
VLHIEASTON said:
I do hope I've misunderstood this...

Ask yourself this, is it more convienient for you or the horse to PTS? I HEAR THAT ALL TO OFTEN ON HERE!

I don't also agree that any horse should be put to sleep because your grazing is bad, chuck him hay in the meantime and sort out the grazing, as long as his pain is being controlled there is no need to PTS.

Sorry but I get very annoyed when people here as if they should do that, when what is really apparent is that pts is more convient for the owner/ carer and not the best for the horse.
Click to expand...

I think that is a little unfair. I don't believe the OP is looking for convenience. What she is concerned about is being able to provide a decent quality of life.

At least she isn't just going to move him on!
 
very difficult decision and one that you will get many opinions on :rolleyes:

for me - better a day too early than a day too late -

i think that keeping a horse alive until it is in such pain that you have no option to put it to sleep is way too late and cruel - surely their last days should be happy and pain free - not struggling and in pain?
 
Sorry but they are not pets. Every situation is different but there is a cost implication here as well (prepare to get shot down in flames). The forecast for the winter is horrendous. It sounds to me like you are completely selfless, took this horse on out of the goodness of your heart and unfortunately the outcome has not been the one you dreamed of. I agree with Amymay on this one, but tbh if he were mine I'd probably be looking to pts (but then again we are in Scotland so winter costs are huge). Certainly you have nothing to feel guilty about.
 
See i am in a similar situation. My old boy (only 16) But he is my old boy because he has had so many medical problems in the past, he has been really unlucky. These days he is stiff in his right hind but still bounces around on hacks like a 4 year old. Take him in the school and it is a totally different story he is lame as lame can be. He is not in pain, he was a on one bute a day which has been reduced to one every other day.

I don't look to school him anymore, he is a happy hack these days. I will never move him on from me. But now it is getting to the point with me where i want to start doing more again, i want to jump/ XC etc. So i am looking at getting another horse.
But not before i get a sharer in for old boy, which i am not having much luck with (there doesn't seem to be any happy hackers out there just before we head into winter, funny that eh! :rolleyes::) ) Because i am struggling to get a sharer i have contemplated finding a field for him and let him live out his days, but i know he will be bored. He will happily graze all day and night and it would save me a fortune on livery costs! But he still needs to do something for his mind. But it is me that looses out on doing other things as i can not afford a 2nd horse with out the income from the sharer. So PTS has crossed my mind - but then that would be convenient for me. Not the right thing to do by him. So would never do it. I just have to keep chugging a long with him until someone does come along to share him and hold off on my 2nd horse.

Long story but basically do what is right by the horse, you are still able to hack him and keep him happy then there is no reason to PTS. I do not agree with PTS for the owners convenience.
 
Sounds like you care very much for this horse, and given you are already questioning his happiness and quality of life versus you own needs for the horse it doesn't sound to me that you will let him suffer. You will know when the time is right, and if you feel it's not right yet then I'd go with your gut.

The one thing that has struck me though is that you say he's a cronic sucker etc. I know this can be learned behaviour/vice but there is also strong correlation with gastric ulcers. The thing is, feeding bute can be quite detrimental to horses with gastric ulcers, so it might be worth chatting things over with your vet.
 
At my old yard half of the horses in the field were all retired and some of them werent old! One of our TB's had been retired since she was 7 because her legs became too sore and stiff when ridden. Another horse was retired at 12 after being diagnosed with navicular, another retired at 14 after arthritis set in. None of them were in pain and walking round a field kept them moving and they thrived. I'm not sure why people argue that horses need something to keep their mind ticking over. I understand some horses would literally blow their brains out if they weren't challenged/occupied occasionally but we are forgetting they are wild animals, and being out all day grazing, resting, socialising is what they are meant to do. As long as he's not in pain, has some company and his basic feeding needs are met, don't consider PTS. All horses can look thoroughly peed off standing in a field in the winter, rain, snow, mud, mud and more mud but doesn't mean they are truly unhappy! Our older ponies were only PTS when we knew it would be unfair on them to go through another winter as its hard work for the old ones and we let them enjoy summer and let them go in a dignified manner whilst they were happy and pain free.

Only you know your horse and if on a regular occurence are you finding him looking miserable or in pain then you then need to reconsider your options.
 
VLHIEASTON said:
I do hope I've misunderstood this...

Ask yourself this, is it more convienient for you or the horse to PTS? I HEAR THAT ALL TO OFTEN ON HERE!

I don't also agree that any horse should be put to sleep because your grazing is bad, chuck him hay in the meantime and sort out the grazing, as long as his pain is being controlled there is no need to PTS.

Sorry but I get very annoyed when people here as if they should do that, when what is really apparent is that pts is more convient for the owner/ carer and not the best for the horse.
Click to expand...

Completely agree. It would be far more convenient for me to put my two field ornaments to sleep. In fact, I would then have room for one that worked. ;) It would be a lot less work for me too. It's a real pain going into winter with two lawn mowers and no grass. Hmm, thinking they are looking a bit fed up without a job to do...

ETA:

I don't think that in this case the OP is wanting to PTS through convenience though. But it often does come across that way on some threads.
 
Last edited:
Bear in mind folks, that yes, the horse can be turned out with hay in the winter for some fresh air and a potter about, but mud is bad bad news for arthritic joints and if the OP is concerned about how the fields will be in January, it is very wise to be thinking ahead now. My old girl is 28, permanently lame (mechanical lameness) with widespread arthritis but principally in her knees. She has enough antiinflammatory to keep her reasonably comfortable every day and still the good times outweigh the bad ... at the moment. She goes out every day whatever the weather but is in at night during the winter. The fields do get very wet, ie. puddly, but luckily not too deep in mud.

Sorry scareymare, but my horse IS a pet. I owe her a nice retirement after all the fun she provided me with. She costs £4k per year in various drugs and I could do an awful lot with that money, believe me, but as far as I'm concerned she is still worth every penny. Would anyone begrudge their granny the cost of household aids or incontinence pads?
 
VLHIEASTON said:
I do hope I've misunderstood this...

Ask yourself this, is it more convienient for you or the horse to PTS? I HEAR THAT ALL TO OFTEN ON HERE!

I don't also agree that any horse should be put to sleep because your grazing is bad, chuck him hay in the meantime and sort out the grazing, as long as his pain is being controlled there is no need to PTS.

Sorry but I get very annoyed when people here as if they should do that, when what is really apparent is that pts is more convient for the owner/ carer and not the best for the horse.
Click to expand...

I am seriously seriously offended by this comment.
I will keep him for the next 15 years as a pet if thats the right thing to do. Its not "convenient" for me to have him pts in fact it will break my heart. I will gladly never ride again if need be as long as he is happy.
The ONLY reason i mentioned the fact my field will be very muddy is because someone else asked what state they got in in the winter.
I am asking a genuine question as to how happy THIS horse can be and how fair it is to keep him going when things get worse.
I realize a lot of horses live happy lives out doing nothing- I have a old pony who is unridden but i know he is happy with that and so he will stay with me until he dies.
My old horse was 38 when i had him pts. For this reason i had to give up riding for years but did it because i owed it to him to care for him the best i could as long as i could which i did. This horse will be the same, but circumstances are different as i dont think he will be happy doing nothing.

Please read things properly before commenting like that- this is the hardest thing for a horse owner to face and comments like that hurt a lot
 
I think it's wise to consider this now, so you can think about it relatively clearly, without the pressure of having to make an immediate decision because he's suddenly catastrophically lame or down in the field or something. Don't know if you'll have seen this or not, but you might find this info useful:
http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/information/just_in_case

I think it's down to each owner to make sure they know their horses well enough to know when they've stopped enjoying their lives - I'd just keep an eye on him, and maybe also have a word with your vet about things, to get an informed opinion from someone else who can see the horse in person, as it were.

I don't for one moment think you have anything but the horses welfare in mind OP, but even when people do pts because it's easier for them, I'd still rather see a horse humanely euthanised than abandoned, or neglected, or sent to the sales, or loaned out to a complete stranger, buted up and sold as a riding horse, etc etc etc...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top