Long term prognosis for kissing spines

[frostyfingers]

My horse had a very saggy belly after the op - he looked a bit like he'd had foals! The vet felt that it was because he was pain free and properly relaxed for the first time in ages, along with the weak muscles. I didn't box rest him in the conventional sense, he had a 14x14 pen out in the field under some trees with his mates penned around him. He was much happier with grass to pick at, in the open air and with his friends in sight at all times. I didn't have a suitable stable for him, it was summer and the weather was dry so it worked really well. As he settled I just increased the size of pen gradually. He had a rigorous exercise regime which I stuck to rigidly and was out hunting in November after the op in June.....

6 days post op.

16 weeks post op.

 

[Gracie]

I am wondering whether to remain at Liphook for a KS operation, or to go further afield and opt for ISLD or perhaps go to Sven Kold. Very difficult to know where to start. Could you recommend your vets who operated on your horses to me? Thank you

 

[Gracie]

Frosty Fingers he looks great!

 

[frostyfingers]

I was very happy with Three Counties - they're near Tewkesbury so no idea if that's any good for you? Thank you - he was so depressed initially I really wondered whether I'd done the right thing, but as his physio and workload progressed he perked up no end. His quarters were hollowed, if you looked at him from behind his spine was really prominent as all the muscles had fallen away, and his topline was non existent but I followed his rehab plan religiously and it has paid off. Good luck with yours.

 

[criso]

I am wondering whether to remain at Liphook for a KS operation, or to go further afield and opt for ISLD

Do Liphook not offer both? - I had mine treated recently (remodelling but not actually touching) at the RVC and we went through various treatment options including both operations as mine would have been a candidate for ligament snip so would have thought that Liphook did both too.

In our case it was mild enough that medication and rehab seem to have done the trick.

 

[Gracie]

Criso I'm not sure - I will find out next week as my horse goes in on Tuesday for the bone scan.
If ISLD is an option, I will find out how many horses they have treated since I feel you just have the one chance of surgery, so I'd like my horse to be treated by the most expert person in this field that I can find.

 

[cellie]

Sorry haven't had time to read all answers to your post but can tell you that our ligament snip was complete success . He had op October unfortunately had navicular at same time but I'm riding in walk more related to going barefoot with navicular . His back is fine now , they recover fairly quickly there's a site on Facebook that really helped me search kissing spines . My local vet does this op I'm based in Norfolk if you want to pm feel free . My horse was horrid he bit and kicked pre op he's lovely now .

 

[cellie]

Sorry haven't had time to read all answers to your post but can tell you that our ligament snip was complete success . He had op October unfortunately had navicular at same time but I'm riding in walk more related to going barefoot with navicular . His back is fine now , they recover fairly quickly there's a site on Facebook that really helped me search kissing spines . My local vet does this op I'm based in Norfolk if you want to pm feel free . My horse was horrid he bit and kicked pre op he's lovely now . I didn't box rest either turned out in small enclose and stabled at night .

 

[BethH]

I choose Svend Kold at Willersley over Liphook as was a cleverer way of operating at that time, ligament snip didn't exist then and I have no idea of the long term success of this method. All I can say is that Willersley were superb and my beloved horses was in very safe hands, the post op care & pain relief was good. I have always taken care to try and keep him in work, ridden correctly and build correct muscle and he has always been given plenty of turnout, I think it is this that has helped make his op a long term success.

 

[Primitive Pony]

Deleted having read Op properly...

 

[Booga22]

Hi!
I just thought I'd add our story too - my girl was diagnosed with KS 3 years ago at the grand old age of 4! Add to that bi-lateral hock spavins.....
We initially had her hocks injected, then later on (couple months) her back. This *did* make a difference however her xrays clearly showed the level of pain she'd be in once a rider was back on board.
I made the decision for her to have the op under standing sedation & the most offensive & damaged process removed & two either side shaved down. This was on 27th November 2012 & she came home on 1st December, feeling very well!!
She was on box rest for 2/3 weeks & had her 13 staples removed after a week / 10 days of being home. I started her lungeing rehab (strict routine with & without pessoa) after 2/3 weeks of being home (vets advice as she was doing so well & was on no pain relief). We did this for 10-12 weeks which was longer than recommended but I felt that as she'd come back in to work 2 weeks earlier than originally planned I would carry the rehab out a bit longer, to be safe.
I got on her for the first time post op in February & she has been great!
It does take them a long time to realise it doesn't hurt anymore & they have to learn a lot of things again as they have the pain memories & responses to overcome, but time & patience are your best friends.
She is out & about most weekends now, dressage, jumping & her favourite - xc, even venturing in to BE with great success. She is a happy little (crazy!) mare, yes she does cost more than most in her maintenance (I am uber paranoid re her saddle fit, back checks, vet visits etc, her supplements) but she's worth it!
Just wanted to share another happy story as I know it's all to easy to feel alone & over whelmed - it;s not all doom & gloom post diagnosis

 

[BethH]

Lovely post Booga, exactly how I feel about my little horse, he is still going after his operation in 2006 and he had a tough time last year (not KS related) & has come back in to work again after a couple of problems and coped amazingly. We went for a canter round the farm in the beautiful sunshine yesterday! Time & patience are indeed your best friends, lovely phrase! My not so young any more horse is now 16 and is still looking good!

 

[PolarSkye]

I've just retired my boy due to (suspected) KS - however, he's nearly 18, has been through the wars, has multiple other issues (arthritis in his off hind/hock, navicular in both fronts, a previous PSD injury) and doesn't box rest well.

If he were 10, I might have gone with surgery and rehab. As it is, with all his other issues, I doubt he would come back to do what he really loves (which is jump) - he'd never make a happy hacker because he hates hacking - so we called time and he is very happy being a pampered pet.

Best of luck with your lovely horse, and please let us know how you get on.

One thing though - so many of the responses above tell stories of horses with KS who also have lower limb problems - isn't it time that vets and other diagnosticians looked more at the whole horse at every visit? No'one told me when my boy was diagnosed with navicular four years ago that I should be concerned about the impact his adapted way of going would have on his whole body - it was up to me to educate myself and surround myself with people and practitioners focused on making him strong overall - I certainly didn't get the information from my vet (or my farrier for that matter).

I may be stating the bleedin' obvious, but owning and caring for a horse isn't anywhere near as simple as owning and caring for a dog or a cat . . . but I worry that there is precious little help and support for owners and carers and too much "FUD" (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) around horse health . . . not to mention the many very novice-y owners thanks to the relatively cheap price of buying (or rescuing) a horse these days.

While the onus shouldn't be solely on vets - I do think that they carry some responsibility to get owners to think about the whole horse and the associated biomechanic impact of a lameness or injury to one or more limbs. Ditto farriers and equine bodyworkers . . . not to mention trainers - how many trainers do you know who train horses to be strong/compensate for their various conformation issues and niggles/conditions rather than just teaching movements/getting pupils to feel good/win a frilly?

Sorry OP - I've hijacked your thread somewhat - this whole issue just frustrates me . . .

Rant over .

P

 

[BethH]

FWIW, Polarskye I couldn't agree more. My horse is still coping well with life and my vet has said the way I carried out the rehab and choose to ride has been the reason. He had another problem last year (not related as 8yrs after KS op) and the bone scan showed no hot spots at all through his back, pelvis, sacroilliac area and upper limbs, in fact he was shocked that for a 16yr old he had such little wear and tear despite being ridden 4-5 times a week. The way he has been trained sympathetically, no gadgets, with a trainer who cares more about the rider sitting properly than the horse looking pretty (which she says happens unsurprisingly if the rider sits well) for me is proof. The lack of information from vets on the whole whenever there is an issue seems to be limited it seems to be all about diagnostics these days not protecting the horse's welfare in the 1st place! For me prevention is always better than cure!

 

[Holly7]

And I have to agree also. Currently going through rehab following KS ligament surgery (1st Sept). All very good from vets etc, should put shoes on etc. Do all that to have my boy falls over outside his stable and then he goes really stiff, so to go back in and have his sacroiliac injected ! Now (following being shod for 3 weeks) hes started to walk oddly infront and one leg has now become pigeon toed :-(((( Physio due back Friday and vet due Wednesday to re-valuate.

Everythings connected everywhere and its sad that so many people just think they are cured now as they have had surgery or an injection. There is so much more to everything.

I know from experience and have learnt the hard way. My home bred baby (6yr) was diagnosed with a bicep tear. Rehabbed for 8 months, still thought she wasn't right so she was then diagnosed with navicular in both fronts! Having always had issues from birth being unsound decided to go barefoot. Deteriorated quite rapidly in the space of 3 months to become one solid muscle spasm ear to bum, to be diagnosed with severe KS and significant SI/damage. We stopped looking after these diagnosis. Very sad ending for my girl unfortunately I she was not comfortable as so much was wrong.

In hind sight, what would I have done differently ? Not pushed my rehab programme, listened to my horse more. When I wasn't happy with the farrier talked more or changed them. Looked for the signs of things going wrong in the feet first and everything else had a knock on effect.

Now - I'm not happy with this feet / new front leg position in his gait. I will be addressing it. I still don't think his sacroiliac is OK so will be re-investigated. I will take a step back with his programme and ensure everything he is doing, he is happy in.

Sorry I've gone on a bit now !!!!

 

[BethH]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, I've suffered from it many times! Mind you whilst my horse seems to be the most expensive in veterinary fees terms in history, I have learned loads!!!!

 

[JanetGeorge]

I've just had a 5 year old mare undergo the keyhole surgery for impinging dorsal spinous processes T15-L23. She also has caudal thoracic articular process joint osteoarthritis T16-T18 (I lifted THAT from the vet report, lol.) Luckily she's a very nice IDSH mare so I don't HAVE to sell her or make nasty decisions. I could only sell her dirt cheap to someone who was prepared to take the risk. She now has 2 weeks of in hand walking (that'll get lively), then after 4 weeks the vet will do spinal injections aimed at the arthritis - she'll start long-lining after 2 weeks - and lunging after 4. I THINK she will be a brood mare (she'd better be better at THAT than her sister who was the original equine virgin!!) Whether being in foal will put the back under more strain - well I'll discuss that with Mark Georgetti when he comes to do her injections. (Three Counties are BRILLIANT!)

Her 'symptom' was the development of the FILTHIEST buck - quite random (to us but obviously when a movement caused acute pain.) She'd been far too good before THAT started to put it down to anything BUT pain.

 

[Gracie]

Hello everyone, thank you so much for your messages, comments, support and advice. It is really interesting reading your stories. My girl came home yesterday having shown 6 areas of inflammation along the spine in the thoracic region (although the vet says the inflammation looks mild on the scan, she is very sore and reactive in that area). So she has had injections into all these areas to see if these will help. If they do, surgery could be an option when we are further down the line.

For the moment she is turned out 24/7 for 10 days, before she comes back into work on the lunge for a couple of weeks and then we will gradually build up to riding again.

I completely agree with earlier comments about how we can help our horses thorough this all with appropriate training, encouraging them to work long and low on the lunge etc - I have only just been shown this by a brilliant instructor who does occasional clinics at our yard, and I am amazed that it has taken this situation for me to have discovered such a simple technique which doesn't require any training aids and encourages the horse to strengthen their core to support their spine. I am no expert but have had horses for the last 25 years and backed my current horse myself along with the help of instructors. Now I know and understand so much more due to my horses back pain, I will always train my horses in this way. How sad that this way of training isn't more commonplace.

 

[sianny87]

I thought I’d add my story to the mix... My horse has been lame on and off for months now. Various vet visits from different clinics all leaning towards limb problems, one saying the front legs, one saying the hind legs, one saying all legs! Not at one point did they look at her as a whole. At the same time I was looking for jobs back in my home of South Wales, so decided to wait until I was back and take her to Cotts. She was never in any noticeable pain or unhappy but I still felt that something else was going on. Took her to Cotts last Thursday and the diagnosis following examination and x-rays was stifle problems, likely caused by rotation of the hind feet due to not having enough heel, problems in her neck and kissing spines to go with it! I feel awful as she may have been like it for ages and I’ve been riding, only hacking and not asking anything of her, but still!

She had an arthroscopy done in both stifles on Monday to investigate. Some cartilage has been shaved and vet is very happy with the prognosis as they required only minimal treatment in a very small area. She also had cortisone injections into her neck, which will be followed by physio. This may need re-injecting at some point. After she’s gone through the required box rest for the stifles and small paddock turnout she can then go for the KS op as she’ll then need to follow the walking/lunging etc rehab.

I’ve gone back and for about what to do. She’s 15, but very much has the brain of a 5 year old and really doesn't do standing in the field, she needs work to keep her mind occupied! Vet suggested the reason she’s not displayed much in the way of pain is because she’s naturally fit and athletic meaning she’ll be able to cover up little niggles. I’ve decided to do the standing op at Cotts. All being well with the stifles the aim is to do this around the beginning of December! Fingers crossed!!

 

[BethH]

I have pondered in the past whether poor foot balance/underrun heels/long toes etc etc etc..... contributes to KS - I'll never know but it's odd that my promising young horse turned in to a KS case - thought by vets to be genetic, but he has not had the best shoeing experiences by any stretch of the imagination and has what I realised later was terrible farriery as a 4yr old. I so wish I had never ever shod him from the start and he had blindingly good feet too! Good luck Sianny, sounds like you're making progress to me! Poor feet definitely transfer upwards - the old old saying "no foot, no horse!"