long term use of gastroguard?implications?

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Prince33Sp4rkle

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does the long term (years/indefinately) use of gastroguard at the maintenance dose, have any negative implications?

would it be better to do a month at full dose then stay on a generic supplement until symptoms return, or do a month on/month off system year round?

any input appreciated!
 
Not speaking from personal experience but as a biologist/pharmacologist!
The active ingredient in gastroguard is omeprazole which is the same as human Peptic ulcer treatments such as Losec and prilosec. It basically stops the proton pumps in the stomach which produce stomach acid. This prevents too much acid build up and therefore protecting against ulcers.
Similar treatments in humans are safe to be taken for long periods of time, had people who are on them for life with no side effects. But switching inbetween treatments can cause digestive problems, diarrhoea etc. as the proton pumps start to over produce acid again as soon as treatment stops.

Therefore thinking along the same lines I would assume it would be more beneficial to stay on it all the time, although maybe something to ask your vet next time you see them?

Hope thats of some interest to you!
 
As per the above - if you can afford it, I'd say there was a benefit. The biggest negative impact will be on your wallet!

I don't know if you've looked into the cost? When Snip was on it, a months course was approx £1000, at £30 per tube, dosed at one tube per day.

However, once the actual ulcers are gone, you could do a quarter tube per day if you gradually weaned down, so you'd be looking at just a couple of hundred £'s per month....which is possibly affordable! (I know at one point that was the route I was taking!)
 
Spooky as I was wondering about this the other day. I can't fathom it. PPIs stop (or reduce?) acid production in the stomach. Great for ulcers. But presumably the acid is also a key part of the digestive process, otherwise why would it occur? I know food only stays in stomach a very short time, but surely once you've got rid of the ulcers you'd want the acid there, albeit making sure there is food in the stomach to "use it up"?

Also don't humans produce acid in response to chewing or something, rather than a horse's "always on" system. So the 2 aren't directly comparable.

I do spend far too much time thinking about digestion these days ;)

Curious to know the impact of PPIs on the digestive process.
 
now_loves_mares said:
Curious to know the impact of PPIs on the digestive process.
Click to expand...

Basically it's thought that those who suffer from ulcers have either overactive Proton pump's so they produce to much acid and/or their stomach lining can't cope with the acid = ulcers.

AFAIK (sorry if my chemistry isn't spot on, I'm a biologist at heart) Inhibitors such as omeprazole prevent the parietal cells in the stomach from producing acid by competitively inhibiting (blocking the site of an enzyme so it can't fit in an do it's job) the Hydrogen/potassium/ATPase proton pump.

This means reduced acid in the stomach, and less chance of ulcers occuring. Omeprazole doesn't completely prevent stomach acid being formed, becuase as you say it is required for normal digestion processes. It simply reduces the amount espescially in those where there is excess acid present.

I hope this makes sense/answers your question!
 
thats very interesting, thanks :)

had 2 very different sets of opinions now though, several saying it will affect digestion and that un digested food makes the pyloric ulceration worse, and now hearing thats a myth.

agh, horses.

was intending to go down the american omeprazole route, but thought id get better responses asking under the GG name.
will work out £30 a month on maintenance dose so not too bad at all.....i cant afford GG full time.
 
I remember reading something about omeprazole possibly being linked to problems with calcium absorption/osteoporosis in humans, but when I asked my doctor about that, he seemed to think that this wasn't conclusive/a serious-enough risk to cause worry. No idea at all if something like this is a consideration in horses!

In terms of stomach-settling foods, I know I find licorice root, fennel, and ginger very helpful for myself, and I think I've heard of people feeding licorice to horses to help prevent ulcers...has anybody else heard of this?
 
If you are trying GG to see if your horse has an ulcer, then you would need to use it for a good couple of months at least as it can take 6-8weeks for an ulcer to repair depending on the severity.

The beauty about using omeprazole is that if you have a horse with ulcers, they will get better with treatment so if you can afford to treat, definitely worth a try. I don't know enough about the US version of omeprazole to give you any idea if it is better/worse than GG.

Omeprazole reduces the proton pump, as others have said it doesn't stop it completely and it has been shown that it should not cause any effect to normal digestion, there will still be enough acid to digest food. Long term use is also fine. People are different to horses as they only produce acid when they are eating. Horses produce 2 litres of acid an hour (!) so other preparations like the feed additives which are antacids won't work as you would need to give it 24hrs a day.

not sure if that helps!
 
Thanks for responses even though I wasn't OP! Makes sense that there is still some acid being produced.
Could you feed antacids before exercise say? Am I right in thinking they neutralise the acid? Hence might help prevent splash ulcers? <armchair science>
 
This might be a really daft question but is there a bacterial cause in horse like there is in humans?

A large proportion in people are linked to high levels of H. pylori and I just wondered if in horses it is just the fact acid production is constantly 'on' that causes the ulcer, or if there are known underlying causes as well?

ETS: also a biologist and just curious really :)
 
jesstickle said:
This might be a really daft question but is there a bacterial cause in horse like there is in humans?

A large proportion in people are linked to high levels of H. pylori and I just wondered if in horses it is just the fact acid production is constantly 'on' that causes the ulcer, or if there are known underlying causes as well?

ETS: also a biologist and just curious really :)
Click to expand...

Yes I think so when my horse was treated for the ulcers form around the exit from the stomach ( forget the name ) they did not clear on gastro guard alone we had to repeat the treatment with antibiotics to clear them up.
 
Mine had seriously bad ulcers - the worst a specialist has seen ever apparantly (only mine..!) lol

They refer to it as *myhorsesname* sindrome lol!

Shes on GG for 6 weeks and off work through my choice (however not for much longer its turned absolutely evil)

Then the american Omeprazole for another month and re-scope until the insurance runs out

In general, horses should be off sugar and constantly be allowed to pick hay (not haylege)!

Mines on simple systems feed, 2 haynets (doubled) hay - the only other thing id love to do for her is 24/7/365 turnout but theres nothing in this area sadly.
 
now_loves_mares said:
Thanks for responses even though I wasn't OP! Makes sense that there is still some acid being produced.
Could you feed antacids before exercise say? Am I right in thinking they neutralise the acid? Hence might help prevent splash ulcers? <armchair science>
Click to expand...

I think you could probably give an antacid just before riding, the problem is you'd have to give quite alot.

It is recommended now to offer the horse a small handful of chaff prior to riding to help stop acid splashes. Also management changes to include always allowing the horse access to hay. People used to take hay away on arrival at a show and starve for an hour before but it isn't necessary with a horse - you don't need to let them gorge themselves on it - but allow them to eat small amounts.
 
jesstickle said:
This might be a really daft question but is there a bacterial cause in horse like there is in humans?

A large proportion in people are linked to high levels of H. pylori and I just wondered if in horses it is just the fact acid production is constantly 'on' that causes the ulcer, or if there are known underlying causes as well?

ETS: also a biologist and just curious really :)
Click to expand...

iifc, in humans the bacteria known to cause problems is helicobactor. studies in horses have shown that ulcers in the glandular region are not linked to helicobactor, however they are still investigating to see if there are other bacteria's that cause it.

My understanding is that a horse with an ulcer in the glandular region should be put on GG treatment, then if it is taking a while to clear, antibiotic therapy may be useful as it could be that bacteria has colonized since the ulcer formed.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
thats very interesting, thanks :)

had 2 very different sets of opinions now though, several saying it will affect digestion and that un digested food makes the pyloric ulceration worse, and now hearing thats a myth.

agh, horses.

was intending to go down the american omeprazole route, but thought id get better responses asking under the GG name.
will work out £30 a month on maintenance dose so not too bad at all.....i cant afford GG full time.
Click to expand...

That is a myth being banded around by a company who will benefit as usual.

Im using the american Omeprazole at the moment and its working well, although my mare has just been diagnosed with some chronic pain issues so Im wondering if her ulcers were pain related as she has the perfect ulcer lifestyle (only fed fibre, lots of turnout, as little stress as possible) but they kept coming back.
 
Holidays_are_coming said:
That is a myth being banded around by a company who will benefit as usual.

Im using the american Omeprazole at the moment and its working well, although my mare has just been diagnosed with some chronic pain issues so Im wondering if her ulcers were pain related as she has the perfect ulcer lifestyle (only fed fibre, lots of turnout, as little stress as possible) but they kept coming back.
Click to expand...

The link between chronic pain and ulcers seems to be pretty well established now. It used to be presumed that is was NSAID treatment for conditions which caused the ulcers but even that doesn't seem to be as cut and dried.

I've wondered about this for years, since I knew a QH that cribbed badly. He wasn't the best mover but that was always accepted as 'him' until it progressed to the stage where he was obviously unsound and diagnosed with spavins. The vet was reluctant to put him on NSAIDs because of the possibility of an ulcer-cribbing connection but when they experimented he actually reduced the amount he cribbed when he was on the meds! Totally against common thought but would suggest the cribbing and the pain were connected.

Re GG it's been around long enough now I would trust they have fairly good information.
 
This post has been a really good read - very interesting.
As you know PS, I've had amazing results with Bloss from the American Omeprazole. She had 3 sachets a day for 6 weeks and is now on Global Herbs acid-x (only because I had a tub that I wanted to use up!) Have got another 200 Omeprazole so once she's finished the Acid - X (which she is doing really well on also) she will go back on to 1 sachet a day of the Omeprazole.
I might add that she's on all Simple Systems feeds aswell (was on a mixture of Pure Feeds and SS but PF is SO expensive and had loads of delivery problems with them ) and I never ride her on an empty stomach, I always make sure she's been in her stable eating hay for at least half an hour before I ride.
 
Bloody phone - My barefoot farrier mentioned there could be long term side effects of using Omeprazole so I checked with my vet and he said that there weren't and non had been proven.
I also suffer from ulcers and take Omeprazole if I get flare ups, its great stuff!!
 
Snip's Pyloric Ulceration went away in the same timescale as everything else whilst on GG.

The american Omeprazole is far more affordable - I looked into it but couldn't get my head around the legal grey area of importing it?!
 
PS you know most of this but for benefit of others - Flow had grade 2/3 ulcers in 2010. She was scoped clear after gastrogard course but then this winter has been showing ulcer symptoms again. She had laminitis last April and was diagnosed with EMS. With treatment and diet she lost 100kg (but was very angry about limited hay - it was triple netted and soaked to make it last longer!).

Then in November she was diagnosed with Cushings. She lost a bit too much weight then so it became a battle to try to balance it.

Anyway, long story short, she had caught herself badly in the electric fence and had some muscle soreness so I missed the ulcer signs and attributed them to back pain. Then ding - suddenly it dawned one day!

Paid for a box of gastrogard (cheapest I found was myvetmeds - my vets price matched them) and have started managing her more religiously as an ulcer case again (laminitis had been the pressing concern as life threatening so ulcers had gone somewhat by the wayside) - soaked hay, and lots of it and I also feed her half a small trug of alfabeet before I work her. This protects against splashing and with alfafa being calcium rich neutralises the acid.

She is much better but I think probably still has low grade ulcers (grumpy behaviour, constantly having to have something in her mouth such as a rope when worried or away from hay). However I worry about long term management. Gastrogard is too expensive to be a regular supplement. The American Omperazole you reference - is that from Omeprazole direct? I used it but I was not convinced it made a difference. Obviously only GG has the patent for the gastriresistant coating until 2015 :( I also worry about balancing lami/EMS/cushings/ulcers!

Sorry for the ramble, in an ideal world constant gastrogard use would be my choice. I have used lots of the supplements and have come to the conclusion that for my horse they don't seem to help. We've tried gastri-x, acid x, settlex, herbal digest, brewers yeast and magnesium, steady up.....sure I've missed some others.
 
blimey. really mixed views.............i think.............probably, its a case of suck it and see.....................if he improves in any way then i guess i get it down to the minimal dose he can cope with and then monitor it?

if no difference then i guess the long term effects arent really an issue.

brain strain!
 
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