Long Toed / Low Weak Heeled Horses (also in NL)

sally2008

sally2008

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Would any owners of sound long toed / low weak heeled horses be interested to have them analysed, x-rayed and shod by a Kent based Vet / Farrier Study Group for a research project into the effects of this condition taking place on Saturday, 18th April 2009, the results of which will be presented at an international hoof care conference in the USA in 2010?

The idea is for twelve horses to have their gait analysed, feet mapped and be assessed by the vets, farriers, chiropractors, Bowen therapists and saddlers. The feet will then be x-rayed and each horse will be shod by one of the team of farriers, (who include Ross Eager, Becky Mabbott, David Nicholls, Clive Rainger, Chris Wiggins and Kevin Willard) with either traditional or Natural Balance techniques appropriate to the horses needs. They will then be treated by the bodyworkers (if necessary) and re-assessed by the group for changes in their gait, muscle tension, etc.

There will be no charge for the x-rays or shoeing but you will be asked to provide feedback on any post-shoeing changes in the horses' way of going, behaviour and temperament and must be willing for you and your horse to be photographed and filmed on the day. If sedation is required this will be chargeable.

If you would like to bring your horse to the research day at Edenbridge, Kent please PM me some photographs of the feet (a direct side on view and the underside) for confirmation that they meet the study criteria, together with your name and phone numbers.

Thank you!
 
What's the point if you're not planning to MRI the feet?
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I am honestly not being funny but are there any sound long toed low heeled horses out there? Both my TBs have been of this variety and both had collateral ligament problems with associated lameness. Is this what is being researched?
I know shoeing is critical but are they looking into other factors?
I would be interested to hear where the results can be seen or what the results are.
Thanks
 
The point is to see what positive effects can be made to the whole horses wellbeing by correct shoeing / trimming and to find solutions before unsoundness sets in. MRI scans would show what has already been well proven - that there are likely to be "hot spots" around the areas forced to take undue strain because of the incorrect angle of the pedal bone. This study is treatment based rather than diagnostic and the idea is to take horses that are still being ridden / worked and do not as yet have lameness issues and prove that with the correct farriery and complimentary treatment the correct skeletal alignment can be restored and maintained.
 
I think there is little doubt that long toe / low weak heel syndrome left untreated will eventually be a contributing factor in alot of lameness issues but as we know, horses are great compensators and many struggle on against the odds for many years before the effects start to take their toll. Sadly, there are alot still out there. As soon as I can get my photobucket account to work I'll post some frightening photos of recent cases seen.

I will let you know when / where the results are published.
 
My mare is very low at the heel, and when she had the foot blocked moved much more freely through her shoulder... although she is not lame, there is obviously some discomfort there. She had xrays on both fore feet which showed the angle of the bone was not as acute as it should be (although not drastic, she was feeling it because she has relatively thin soles) and we needed to get that heel up in order to improve the angle and have her completely happy placing the foot.

She has not had gels inserted into the feet and the heel after just four weeks of corrective shoeing is now showing a huge improvement already. She is also landing a lot better on the left fore (the right is now completely sorted as was only very minor change to the angle) but we still have a way to go yet.

Sorry, I know I am not contributing to your study, but I just wanted to say that they can be sound with it... she is competing BD at the moment and working 5 days a week. If the ground becomes quite hard (ie. slightly frozen) then I back off her work because this is the only time she feels it.
 
Baileys feet are nowhere near as bad as they were but they are still not really right either.

I am happy to send you photos and if you need him then you are more than welcome to use him. Was going to PM you for Clive MR's number again anyway as would value his opinion on them
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It's good to hear that you've taken the issue in hand and things are going in the right direction for your mare. I'm sure she'll go from strength to strength now. It's so sad to see horses with this condition whose owners seem completely unaware of the long term damage that can be caused by leaving it untreated, hence projects like this study.
 
I have to say even with early excellent farriery and gel pads my boys conformation is still very poor. It really only shows on xray and MRI. His feet look pretty good from the outside and he was sound and competing well (winning) BD for a few years. However at 10 it has taken its toll and despite treatment he is on alternate days of one Danilon. He appears completely sound but when nerve blocked his movement is much bigger and freer - really spectacular - so we know he is in discomfort and so treat him and no longer compete him.
That is why I ask if there are many truely sound horses with this problem. I think many of them are borderline lame/unlevel but owners and vets do not notice this as it is more a change in movement than obvious lameness.
Our vet was convinced our chap was sound until he saw the difference on nerve blocks. We called him because his behaviour had changed a little and we knew him so well we thought he may have shortened his stride. The difference was amazing and quite upsetting.
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Yours is a very sad story and unfortunately one that is only too common. I think that alot of owners have got used to seeing so many horses with long toes and low heels and it has become almost "normal". The damage it does is slow and creeping with sufferers continuing to work to the best of their ability until it finally becomes too much for them and unsoundness or lack of performance starts to show. I wish you all the very best with your boy. If the foot imbalance has now been addressed it may be that over time some of the soft tissue damage will improve - nature is a wonderful thing.
 
misst, I've been down the same road and its left me thinking there are so many "sound' horses that aren't really sound.

FWIW, my gelding had regular good farriery from age 6 when I got him, then remedial farriery from 9 years old to the hospital farrier's super heart-bars, wedges, sole-guard etc at 12. He always had collapsed heels largely because he landed heavily on his heels. All along the shoeing route the "experts" were convinced he was moving so much better while I could see he was more and more miserable and unwilling to work - even up to the week before I insisted he went to Newmarket. Sue Dyson found him lame in all four legs and the MRI of his feet showed they were finished inside and he was PTS.

When my mare had similar problems I didn't waste the same time bashing my head against a brick wall messing about with her feet. On MRI she also had severe soft tissue injuries.

I think people underestimate how common this is. OP your study won't be very conclusive or reliable IMO.
 
Yet another sad story. I hear what you say - no there are few truly sound horses with this condition but many people do not recognise the problems and because the animal is not hopping lame continue to work their horses.

Whether the study proves conclusive remains to be seen. As with all these things there are so many variables involved but every effort will be made to prove a reliable link between correcting the angle of the pedal bone through correct farriery and an overall improvement in the horses wellbeing. The more information owners / riders have the more they will question the less skilled or conscientious farriers / EP's / trimmers and make better decisions for their horses longterm health and soundness.

This photo shows a horse who quite obviously has extreme problems but was still being worked. What saddens me is that the owner was obviously sufficiently concerned for her horses welfare to bandage the legs but possibly didn't realise the enormous damage that was most likely building up through poor foot balance.

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I think that what Flames Slave and I are trying to point out is that we had excellen farriers and were pretty aware of our horses feet and problems. We both had the horses from a young age - hers 6 mine 4. At no time were they ever badly shod or ignored but still the problem occured.
Mine did not look especially long toed or collapsed in the heels but MRI showed a naturally flat lying pedal bone and paper thin soles. Liphook basically advised that the shoeing he had and the pads he was wearing were all they could suggest.
My boy is sound most of the time if you do not push him eg lateral work or jumping but most people on our yard are convinced he is a lovely mover and sound as a pound!
I would be facinated to see what comes out of this study as I truely believe you will simply end up proclaiming most of the horses presented as lame!
I watch and wait with interest.
ETS that photo is very extreme I have never seen a horse with feet that bad.
 
misst - you could be right about the horses who are presented in April but that is the whole point of this project (which extends far further than just this study day). The more owners and equine healthcare professionals that can be educated to recognise problems before they become major unsoundness issues, the happier and healthier our horses will be. There is still such an attitude of if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it-out there. I'm not saying that is the case with you and your horse but we put our trust in the professionals, particularly farriers, to do the right thing but, as with all things there are good and bad, so improving our own knowledge can only help us to question what they are doing and why and have the confidence to change if we are not happy with the explanations we are given. On a very personal level I believe that too many people still choose their farriers on the strength of price rather than quality.

Those feet are something else aren't they - they shocked the hell out of me too as I've never seen quite so bad either in a shod horse.
 
Kent is too far for me to travel but I am dealing with all the problems that low heels and long toes have caused.Ive had xrays done and remidial farriery is ongoing with eggbar and gel pads.Would be very interested in the findings.
 
That photo is shocking
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I struggle with my TB's low heels - NB worked for him for a little while (< 1 yr) but then his foot shape degenerated on them, so when I moved area and hence started using a different farrier, we took him off NBs and he now has some rather funky extensions which have improved him no end. I doubt he'll ever have good feet but I hope I am doing all I can to give him the best chance of long-term soundness (as his feet don't seem to affect his way of working atm, so my concern is the impact on his legs over the years).

If I had my own transport I would be down in a flash.
 
What I would say is I would be very wary about taking my horse. What is key with remedial farriery is consistency. Surely by taking your horse somewhere to be shod by a farrier who doesn't know your horse and won't be shoeing him in the future is somewhat pointless. In fact, if you shod my flat footed TB he'd be lame anyway as he's footsore for a day or two after shoeing. Changing a horses foot confirmation takes time and patience - I'd be worried if you made a drastic change quickly more damage would be done.
 
Marchtime - I couldn't agree more that the secret to improving a horses feet is consistently using the correct techniques. If people who do take part see some immediate improvements in their horses then there is no reason why they cannot put their farriers / vets in touch with the group to discuss the changes made in fact I'm sure they would be welcome to attend. The farriers involved are highly experienced and conscientious people who specialise in lameness prevention and the techiques which will be used are no secret, they are out there for all - if you have a farrier who is able and willing to use them. I have also now been told that the group are willing to follow up shoeings six and possibly twelve weeks after the study day too. After that it will be question of choice - will owners want to continue down the same road they were on or make changes for the longterm? Either way, by taking part hopefully they will be better armed with knowledge.
 
I personally think this is a fantastic opportunity to learn. So many farriers down here shoe far too long and low. I moved from an area where we were spoilt for good farriers, and was horrified with how I was finding my horses feet when I moved. I now have a fantastic farrier who used to be in the Kings troop. He is working on several horses on my yard to shorten toes and widen/lift heels and my vets are extremely impressed. BUT is it fighting an up hill battle with some liveries. I now insist that the yard farrier is used as I know he is superb, but some of the horses coming in have horrendous feet and the owners have not a clue. They have had them shod long and low for so long they think that is normal, I hear them slating the yard farrier as he will not simply shoe the same way as their previous farrier and they cannot see what has been happening to their horse, and yes they might be sound now - bit long term they will break down. Anything that increases owners awareness is a good thing. If one horses is helped by this opportunity then brilliant, and if the results can be made nationally available - in words of one syllable then maybe - just maybe more farriers will be questioned by the owners. Good luck Sally2008 - could you arrange the same in Devon!!!!
 
Ah shame my boy is now in the gread paddock in the sky as he would have been perfect for this.... he was the typical text book picture.

My mare seems to be OK however, and I do make sure that the farrier takes her "toes" back as she is pidgeon toed
 
Thanks Bosworth. Reading your post has cheered me no end. The message is getting through to some but sometimes it does seem like trying to nail a jelly to the ceiling! I know just how frustrated you must feel. If any of your long toed liveries see the light and fancy a weekend trip to Kent let me know.
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