Looking at purchasing a field

[Nbuuifx]

We've been patiently looking for the last few years.

We've come across a field a couple of miles away which is up for sale. It is 3 acres and currently has a gravel track from the gate to a hard-working area which has one field shelter in it which is falling down.

We would want to add some fencing to it.

It currently has a footpath which goes along the gravel track then over a stile. We would want to fence the track off so that people walking in there wouldn't be walking with the horses around them.

It seems like the land is agricultural land.

My worry is over the planning side of things. The seller says he believes that the previous owner had planning permission for the shelter but searching the planning portal, I can't find anything. However the shelter is marked in the map with a red border just like other buildings are. I also wish that the gravel track could be moaned about.

It has had the gravel track and shelter for about 4-5 years.

Is there any problem with adding fencing in an agricultural field? It has post and rail fencing around the perimeter of two sides with livestock mesh. One other side is a huge hedge, the final side is a stone wall with a post and barb wire fence.

I would like to run a 100m long post and rail fence along the other side of the track to fence off the track parallel with the current fence and then put a gate at the end. Would that be an issue?

I take it if planning was a problem and I had to remove the shelter, that I could just pull it to another spot?

Ideally we could do with building at least one more shelter / stable.

I'm quite close to going for it before I miss out but any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Nbuuifx]

I'm in England

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Your solicitor should get the legal checks done for you, including any pp for the existing shelter. They will ask for documentation from seller. You are unlikely to just be able to move it if it's a static one - to put elsewhere - most local councils require planning for anything these days.....
Fencing off the footpath (you must not divert the line of the footpath) is a sensible idea, but you'll need to get legal advice, you will still be responsible for maintaining the boundary (the other side of the footpath) so keeping brambles at bay and cutting any hedging back.

 

[Burnttoast]

If your local planning department is a helpful one you should be able to run many of your queries past them. When we bought land I wanted to put a hardstanding and pole barn in and needed pp so I also went for change of use to equestrian at the same time, which in theory gives a bit more flexibility about what you can do on the land in terms of exercising etc.

 

[rextherobber]

I had to install kissing gates rather than stiles (I would not put gates in, in case they get left opened and the inner fence is breached in some way) There's no issue about fencing off the footpath, but get public liability insurance. As already mentioned, if the land is agricultural rather than equestrian, technically you can only graze it, not ride or bucket feed (don't know how well that would be enforced though). Think agricultural land has different rules regarding shelters - or is it on skids?

 

[Nbuuifx]

Thanks for all the replies.

The current field shelter is in hard standing but it is on skids. It has two large fenced posts which look to be concreted in, which it is attached to at the front which make it sort of permanent.

With regards to the track / footpath, I perhaps didn't explain it well enough.

The gateway to the field has a stile to the left of it. Once you go through the gateway you have a gravel track for driving along with grass in the middle. A few metres down there is a stile on the right. About 100m down there is another style on the right. Both of these Stiles go into the same field but the paths go in different directions. So I'm thinking of fencing down the left of this track and putting another gate at the end into the hardstand area where the shelter currently is. So if any walkers did come along they would go over the stile into the track area, then along the track and then off into the adjacent field via either stile.

We would be driving up it regularly, so it would be kept clear etc.

We would definitely have public liability insurance.

 

[sunnyone]

Personally I'd not bother with fencing off the footpath. Live with it as is, or walk away. You don't need the stress!

Walkers seem to regard any new fence as a challenge to them: they will use 50 year old maps to assert their right to use the old route no matter how clearly you sign the change. Then they will let dogs run under the new fence (if not a wall or panel), children will be dropped over to the horses side deliberately so as they can go and stroke the animals but unsupervised by the adults, and of course waste will be deliberately thrown over to the horses' side.

 

[irishdraft]

If you live fairly locally are you able to establish if the footpaths are used regularly, this is the thing that would put me off buying. We have a footpath that runs along the bottom of our fields and it is fenced off so the foot path is outside. Although it's not particularly busy the amount of people who come wandering up our fields having opened the gates into the fields is quite incredible.

 

[rextherobber]

Personally I'd not bother with fencing off the footpath. Live with it as is, or walk away. You don't need the stress!

Walkers seem to regard any new fence as a challenge to them: they will use 50 year old maps to assert their right to use the old route no matter how clearly you sign the change. Then they will let dogs run under the new fence (if not a wall or panel), children will be dropped over to the horses side deliberately so as they can go and stroke the animals but unsupervised by the adults, and of course waste will be deliberately thrown over to the horses' side.

I have a footpath along one edge of one of my fields. I would absolutely recommend fencing it off, I don't want my horses coming into contact with strange dogs, or children wandering about. If you fence it off, have kissing gates and signage if fence is electrified, you're covered. You can also safely graze sheep to tidy up the pasture too. I don't think OP is talking about re routing the footpath ?? I have had none of the issues you mention, and if that's going to happen, it will happen regardless of a fence.

 

[Pippin and Poppy]

My main worry would be that walkers might feed the horse/horses, whether the footpath is fenced off or not. So much depends on who is using the footpath and how often.
I am pretty sure the hard-standing would have needed Planning Permission, so there should be a record. I guess the owners could have been saying they were providing a better surface for the walkers, so maybe had a way around surfacing the track.
A shelter on skids is 'mobile' and any ground anchorage is removable so should not have needed PP.
But as hard-standing has been put down I wonder why they still installed a mobile shelter? I had a friend whose Planning Department made her remove the hard-standing she had put down in her horse's field. This was about 6 years ago.
For complete peace of mind the only thing to do is to talk to the Planning Department. I would do that rather than paying a solicitor to look at the current situation.

 

[Fruitcake]

I agree - contact the planning department and ask them the questions. They'll be able to confirm whether the field shelter and hard standing have planning permission (or, indeed need it). Some councils are really hot on 'mobile' field shelters and insist they're moved regularly to avoid needing planning perrmission. Others are much more relaxed about this. Internal fencing is usually fine although the environmental officer at our local planners was awkward with us about the existing electric tape line on top of our field post and rail when we applied for pp for the arena. (Planning officer ignored him though).

In terms of the footpath, different people have different levels of tolerance. For me, when we were moving, it was a make-or-break issue. I absolutely would not be prepared to buy anywhere with a public footpath or access of any kind - but I appreciate, for others, it's not such a big issue. I agree with the comment above though that if you're intending to divert the path even a tiny amount, you'll need permission as walkers will probably report and challenge it.

I also agree that it's a good idea to apply for change of use from agricultural to equestrian. Officially, without equestrian use, you can't feed in the field or ride there. If you're making other changes regarding the footpath etc, you may find that a disgruntled walker could make things difficult in that department so it might be best to be all above board. Most planning departments will meet with you to discuss questions in principle and let you know whether requests would be likely to be considered. (At least that was the case pre Covid). Obviously, they can't give you anything certain, but it's worth it to find out if something would be a complete no-go. (A few years ago, we had such a meeting and decided not to buy a place as the planner indicated that any applications wouldn't be considered favourably).

 

[Nbuuifx]

No, I'm not looking at diverting the footpath at all.

I've found some old maps which show that the the track was historically there as a track to an old building which was actually adjacent to the field in the neighbouring field (the track was in the field we are looking at getting)

The fence that I would to add has a natural bank as well so the fence would sit at the top. Making a natural barrier from walkers. I'm sure some brambles could be encouraged along the bank too.

The current owner tells us that he's only ever seen one person walk through which is one of the neighbouring farm owners who walks his dog through to make a circular route daily.

I'm torn between asking the planning department questions which may highlight things, and just keeping quiet and getting on with things.

 

[PeterNatt]

I have obtained change of use from Agricultural to Equestrian on numerous occasions. If you wish to approach the local authority then I would suggest that you instruct a local surveyor to act on your behalf as they will will be able to get more out of them than you will be able to. My advice would be to budget for Post and Rail Fencing with Equi-Fencing (A tight form of sheep fencing) attached to it to prevent dogs getting through the fence line. Also have Kissing Gates so that a gate can not be left open. Ensure that all the wooden posts are pressure treated as they last a lot longer. All the hinges on the gates should be reversed so that the gates can not be lifted off.

 

[Nbuuifx]

The gates are not for public use and I would be padlocking them. So there are no gates to be left open. For the public there are 3 Stiles in close proximity.

The horses would be in the other side of the fence that I would add, so they wouldn't be close to the Stiles.

Most of the existing fencing is post and rail (top rail and mid rail) with livestock fencing from the mid rail to the ground. Is day about 4' high.

So I'm thinking of getting 6' round posts, to put 2' in the ground. With matching top and mid rails and livestock fencing to the bottom to stop dogs getting through.

The top fence is the worst part as it is supposed to be done wall but that is a bit low so they've put post and barb wire in there. I think I'd want to add rails to these posts and livestock fencing again.

 

[Abby-Lou]

Ring the planning office they will know straight away, I have seen this before with my neighbours very small barn/stables on the map they were a brownish colour and our barn next door had planning permission was green on a map. I would fence off from walkers dogs running loose with horses recipe for an accident in my opinion and feeding them. Nothing better than owning your own land best of luck