Looking for a feed as calorific as oil

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LPL

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Hello I have a rising 5 ex racer that is looking rather skinny. He gets ad lib haylage and daily turnout. He is fed a double handful of alpha a oil, the maximum amount of micronised linseed he can get (can't remember how much weight wise), Allen and page calm and condition and spillers feed balancer twice daily. He has been given a clean bill of health from the vet who recommended feeding up to 1litre of vegetable oil a day. I can just about Get him to eat 300ml per feed. But he doesn't like it and he takes an age eating it, sometimes leaving a greasy slop in the bottom of his bucket.

Any ideas on a cube or mix that will have the same cals as that much oil? Been thinking about baileys outshine? Bearing in mind I'm spending £6-9 a week on oil.
 
That seems a ridiculous amount of oil and would put off most horses, I am not sure they are designed to deal with so much oil and it may be best to get nutritional advice from someone qualified to give it, vets are rarely experts in dietary requirements.

It is almost spring and the grass will be coming through soon which will really help, until then I would increase the alfalfa without making the feeds too large otherwise he will not get the full benefit, calm and condition may not be the best base feed, it suited one of mine but many people have found it does not really help with weight gain and you do need to feed rather a lot in one go, maybe move up a level within the same range, any that I have struggled with are best fed 3 or 4 smaller feeds daily if you can it may help.

Mine is doing very well this winter on grass nuts and haylage, last year he was not so good but picked up as soon as the grass came through.
 
Well we thought so too. Do you think 600ml a day is still too much? I can only feed him more than once at the weekend unfortunately. I try to give him 4 small feeds at the weekend. So do you think knock the calm and condition and give some grass nuts a whirl? Can't wait until turn out!! We have another 2 acres to open up that has been growing all winter as well. Sigh. He's grown over winter too! He came 15.3hh and is now bang on 16hh. Perfect!
 
I think it's over 250ml of oil per day and you have to supplement vitamin E with it then. Molassed sugar beet is quite fattening. You could feed a whole bucket load of Alfa-A in a separate bucket if you wanted. Or there's Alfa-Beet which is a mix of alfalfa and sugar beet in a pellet that you soak for 2hrs. Barley is quite fattening too. I've never fed linseed so I can't comment on that. Unless there's some reason for your horse not having starchy grains, a litre of veg oil, Alfa-A Oil and linseed (oily too, I think?) sounds like over-kill on the oiliness. If it was me I think I'd go with the ad-lib haylage, Alfa-Beet and flaked barley, plus your balancer. 3 or 4 feeds per day if necessary.
 
LPL said:
Well we thought so too. Do you think 600ml a day is still too much? I can only feed him more than once at the weekend unfortunately. I try to give him 4 small feeds at the weekend. So do you think knock the calm and condition and give some grass nuts a whirl? Can't wait until turn out!! We have another 2 acres to open up that has been growing all winter as well. Sigh. He's grown over winter too! He came 15.3hh and is now bang on 16hh. Perfect!
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Am I reading this right?
You are feeding that large quantity as listed in the first post as one feed a day?

Sorry, just re-read op and see twice a day feeding.

I'd cut out the Allen and page stuff personally. And I'm not surprised that he won't eat that volume of oil.
I'd go soaked grass nuts (lots of), the balancer and a pelleted high oil supplement (outshine/omega rice/equijewel)
 
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ester said:
coolstance copra, keep the linseed. and the outshine/equijewel type stuff suggested above.
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I used Coolstance on a TB, he didn't really like it but mixed well with something he did he would finish it off.
Its actually fairly cheap for a high calorie food, I was feeding a stubbs scoop dry, wetted each feed plus what ever else high calorie he fancied.
If you can fit in an extra feed a day somewhere that will help.
 
I would look at D & H Barley Rings, soak them (smells like an old fashioned mash, gorgeous!) and horses love them; they have added linseed too. We brought back a filly on the brink of starvation with that, she looked fantastic within a year.
Soaked grass nuts also help; (I prefer the ones without alfalfa, lots of horses find it too strong a smell)
Baileys Stud Cubes (not mix) are excellent for weight gain too.
Or you could go back to the old fashioned way of normal sugar beet, micronised barley (or oats) whichever they prefer and oats are less heating than barley plus micronised linseed.
None of the above have ever failed me yet and I've brought a fair few back into condition with them over the years.

BTW, obviously make sure worming is up to date and check teeth but you might just have to adjust to the fact he's a naturally lean machine like some people.
 
you don't want him to be a hack rack, but given it is winter and he has grown I would not be too concerned at trying to give him even more fat. I can't believe how much oil the vet recommended!
I would still try to mostly stick to alfalfa.
my guys are on alfalfa chaff, micronised linseed, oats and speedi-beet. they love oats and speedi- beet which provide lots of fibre. with zero sugar. my friend had a skinny tb and she sweared by speedi-beet to help with his weight.
 
Years ago I went to a talk by a high performance vet when oil was all the rage. He was so against it as the equine digestive system is not designed for the consumption of it at all. I would never feed oil based on what I learnt that day.

My TB is in good condition fed on soaked grass nuts, copra/coolstance, linseed and a good balancer with no fillers (Progressive Earth/Forage Plus are good manufacturers of such things) then a handful of unmolassed chop (Graze-On) for consistency more than anything.

I find grass nuts to provide more calories than unmolassed beet but unmolassed beet can help the hind gut (articles on Forage Plus/their new "talk" site) which in turn can help how much they absorb from their feed.

My friend has all her TBs on Keyflow feeds and they are looking amazing so if you want to stick with a mix that could be worth looking into.
 
Chop, speedo beet, micronised linseed, a good balancer (like top spec) and 'thirds', you can phase thirds off over the spring/summer as the grass comes through, up his hay/haylage as best fibre forage at end of day...my friend had a tb who struggled with condition and she rang topspec, changed feeds and he looks fabulous now, even with no work due to injury...another friend used thirds and had the same result.
 
Look into Rowan and Barbury Solution Mash- really good high oil low starch content. Failing that they do this 'Sumo' feed which is EXTREMELY high in oil, but you would add it in little amounts to their normal feed.

If you aren't bothered about starch content, try Slobber Mash (can't remember brand name) but that works wonders too :)
 
Have you looked at Pure Feeds condition? I have been feeding it a few months now and amazed at how well my horse is looking (and feeling!). I was previously feeding Alfa A Oil and a high calorie mix, up to about 3 scoops a day of the mix plus a lot of Alfa A. Since being on Pure Feeds he has put on so much condition that most of the winter he has been on a handful of Pure Feeds twice a day and that is all. We have virtually no grass either. He is 17. He has plenty of energy and looking very shiny and feeling well in himself.
 
best conditioner in the world, boiled linseed plus a little barley, slow cooked at home, totally natural way to get the full benefit of whole grains plus the gungy sludgy stringy sticky excudate from the linseed cooked this way is wonderful for lining the gut, this is the oil most easily digested in my experience and as far as I know none of the consequences of hydrogenated commercial oils, ie free radicals.

but do not let it boil over!
 
^^^^^^^^ This! Nothing beats watching the horses lick their lips in anticipation of a barley and linseed mash and cleaning the bowl sparkling clean.

Did I say the smell is fantastic too - as long as you don't boil it over! We used to do our barley in a burco boiler, on low all day, just stirred. The linseed would be in a huge (stock pot size or metal bucket) saucepan standing in another boiler with boiling water all day.

And did I mention the smell?
 
tristar said:
best conditioner in the world, boiled linseed plus a little barley, slow cooked at home, totally natural way to get the full benefit of whole grains plus the gungy sludgy stringy sticky excudate from the linseed cooked this way is wonderful for lining the gut, this is the oil most easily digested in my experience and as far as I know none of the consequences of hydrogenated commercial oils, ie free radicals.

but do not let it boil over!
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Another one supporting the boiled linseed! (some folk make it in a slow cooker, less messy apparently)

But full fat micronised linseed, full fat soya meal and copra are all great solutions too as well as being less complicated to prepare.

The other thing is to check teeth, and make sure the horse gets plenty of fibre.... fibre slows the passage of everything through the gut, giving them more time to digest it fully. Plus, fibre keeps them warm from the inside, which helps keep the weight on.

My two old boys are fed speedibeet, micronised linseed, alfalfa plus and a digestion and joint supplement. Tom also gets a few oats. They usually hunt 3 days a fortnight (this season was written off in wet ground sadly) and still look fabulous!!

Don't restrict the fibre, ever. Ron gets through half a small bale of haylage over night, as well as 2 feeds (as above, a 3/4 full scoop of each of the ingredients in each feed). He's not hunted this season and is actually fat (shame on me) going into the spring :(
 
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