Looking for help/ideas on what is going on with my collie.

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Alec Swan said:
By the sounds of things, you've taken on the wrong dog.

Pointers point, Labradors retrieve, Bloodhounds track, Spaniels hunt and Collies work sheep. For many, many generations these dogs have had their natural abilities encouraged to the point where many are born with a demonstrable and innate understanding of their role in life. Many Collies are born with what's called 'eye', and as yours, they will maintain eye contact. In the useful dog, that 'eye' is actually recognised by sheep, and gives the dog a power over them, and 'power' is the word which is used by handlers. 'Power' has nothing to do with the physical side of the dog, it's within the dog's psyche, and those of us who train sheepdogs seek out dogs such as yours!

The dog which behaves as yours around cyclists or people or cars or ducks, or anything which moves, is actually attempting to fulfil its natural role. If you are to deny the dog its inbuilt wish to 'think' about its role in life, then you will most likely end up with what you have, and what you have is a dog which is describing, perfectly, it's frustration. In the event that you have no interest in sheep dog training, then if you were to give the dog a similar role, then that would at least relieve the dog's frustration.

If it's your intention to attempt to undo the work of previous generations, then that's your choice. There is though, and as your'e finding out, a price to pay.

Alec.
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I'm not going to sit here and give you a full list of everything the dog does in her daily routines or all the 'jobs' she has etc, just because she doesn't get to chase sheep doesn't mean she is hard done by. She doesn't sit staring at four walls all day. Had I not mentioned her breed none of this would be getting spoke about. As soon as someone mentions they have a collie everyone jumps down their throat and claims they aren't exercising it enough or giving it enough jobs to do... and it goes on and on and on. Same story every single time - which funnily enough was my opening line for the thread, so don't bother going there.

Unless you would like to come and spend a few days with us to see what we do, and all the things she has in her life then you don't get to sit behind your computer screen acting like an expert.

This has gone way off topic, so unless you are genuinely interested in the outcome of the tests she is about to undergo then please save yourself from posting on here. If you really have not much else better to be doing than wrongly judging others then feel free to PM me your arguments.
 
I have a lot of experience with the breed as well, I currently own 5 and have had several more over the years. Collies can start out one way and this can change over time unfortunately, it can be the minutest thing that can start the change off but then a snowball effect begins. This ime more often than not is seen in a working line dog who is in a pet home. Im not for a second suggesting your home is not a wonderful and knowledgable one but for some collies, moving along with the natural ebb and flow of family life just doesnt suit them. What they need is a farm, working life, where virtually nothing changes.

It may be the case that the dog you had before that was ‘fine’ has simply over time, become overwhelmed with many changes and stimuli and has in essence, had a bit of a mental breakdown. Did you have your son when she was fine before? The lameness to me, sounds like it may be an intermittent cruciate problem, not uncommon in the breed. Has the vet checked for this? It may be partially related to your problems now, but i suspect it is only part of a complex set of causes and probably a separate issue. sorry if i have missed details in the thread and repeated things, I skipped over a few pages.

I would be seeking specialist help asap. If you are interested I can PM you the details of both a specialist vet and bc/sheepdog specialist not a million miles away from you.

Good luck, i hope you get somewhere.
 
NeverSeenSanta said:
I have a lot of experience with the breed as well, I currently own 5 and have had several more over the years. Collies can start out one way and this can change over time unfortunately, it can be the minutest thing that can start the change off but then a snowball effect begins. This ime more often than not is seen in a working line dog who is in a pet home. Im not for a second suggesting your home is not a wonderful and knowledgable one but for some collies, moving along with the natural ebb and flow of family life just doesnt suit them. What they need is a farm, working life, where virtually nothing changes.

It may be the case that the dog you had before that was ‘fine’ has simply over time, become overwhelmed with many changes and stimuli and has in essence, had a bit of a mental breakdown. Did you have your son when she was fine before? The lameness to me, sounds like it may be an intermittent cruciate problem, not uncommon in the breed. Has the vet checked for this? It may be partially related to your problems now, but i suspect it is only part of a complex set of causes and probably a separate issue. sorry if i have missed details in the thread and repeated things, I skipped over a few pages.

I would be seeking specialist help asap. If you are interested I can PM you the details of both a specialist vet and bc/sheepdog specialist not a million miles away from you.

Good luck, i hope you get somewhere.
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My son was 9 months old when I bought her, she was 8 weeks. I travelled approximately a 4 hour round trip each time to view her maybe three or four times before I chose her, it wasn't a case of "Oh look at that cute little puppy, I want it and hope it never grows up"
I specifically bought a collie for various reasons which I won't go into on here as there is always someone waiting in the wings to have a go without fully understanding the situation, as had been made clear here by several!

Someone has mentioned (sorry can't remember who!) that there is a good chance my friends gave her the freedom to do what she wanted when she wanted, rewarded all of her behaviour, good and bad, and so she could be retaliating against me now for bringing her back into line. This is the line I have been going along all this time, as it's just far too coincidental IMO that all of this happened at the same time I stopper her from going out walks with them, it has nothing to do with me being incapable. This is obviously a separate issue from the hind leg pain.

If you wouldn't mind PM'ing me neverseensanta that would be fab, I'd much rather speak about this with someone who actually has a clue about it, rather than open myself up to the hoards of people ready to jump in with their judgements without having all of the facts!
 
I have sent you a PM. My gut feeling is that your dog has just not coped with the changes in her life. I missed the fact she is only 3 before... she is still immature and so much will have changed for her with your son growing into a toddler. Just the mere change from a babe in arms to a walking, talking small person can blow some collies minds. What Alec said about the innate ‘eye’ is right Im afraid, but that doesn’t imply you aren’t providing a loving home with lots of exercise. However without the opportunity to fulfil the need to use that ’eye’ , the collie brain becomes more susceptible to being affected by other things going on in life around them - like normal, changing, family life.
 
p87 said:
....... rather than open myself up to the hoards of people ready to jump in with their judgements without having all of the facts!
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That's hardly being just. Few have 'jumped in', you've asked for help and advice. As you've presented the problem, and as you've presented the "facts" so their are those who've offered help, or attempted to. If the facts of your particular and unique case are not as you've described, then now's your chance to correct things.

You wont be the first, nor yet the last who asks for advice, but upon receiving it, turns on those who offer it, because it isn't what you want to hear. Insulting those who may well have kept a few more sheep dogs than you, and who have given over many years in an attempt to understand perhaps one of the most complex canine minds, will do little to elicit their help.

Consider one thing, before you contradict the next 'expert' who you may face, it's just possible that they may have a little more experience, than you.

Again, I wish you well.

Alec.
 
Not to worry, as you are clearly an expert dog trainer p87 I don't understand why you posted this thread asking for help and advice, which several have given. I'm sure by now you have the problem sorted, after all you know the dog so wonderfully well and appear to have such insight into her mind as you've shared on here.
 
P87, there have been plenty of knowledgeable collie people on here who have offered assistance and lots of people who have given advice. The only person who has done any jumping is you. You seem to have taken every comment that differs from your own as a deep personal criticism of your training and handling. I've only seen helpful comments and suggestions and encouragement to think outside the box a bit.


Neversaynever in particular may have hit the nail on the head, I hope the people she suggests can help you and your girl. All the best.
 
Love_my_Lurcher said:
I have a friend with an entire male Collie. He gets 'babied' on a regular basis, but is still obedient and a very good natured dog. My two also get spoiled and baby talked, but there have been no issues because of it. They are allowed on the furniture, but will get off when told. They also respond well to other vocal commands. I honestly don't think that spoiling a dog is telling them it's okay to take over the house. In fact the more I read about the 'pack theory' being debunked the more I believe it after seeing what my two are like.

This was not meant to be a rude reply by the way.
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Collies are sensitive intelligent dogs and it does sound as if you are very dominant with her. My dogs are allowed on furniture but they are still obedient and know their boundaries.
It would be interesting to see how she reacted to your friends now, maybe that life style would suit her better, it must break your heart seeing her like this.
If she were human you would almost say she had had a nervous breakdown.
 
Alec Swan said:
By the sounds of things, you've taken on the wrong dog.

Pointers point, Labradors retrieve, Bloodhounds track, Spaniels hunt and Collies work sheep. For many, many generations these dogs have had their natural abilities encouraged to the point where many are born with a demonstrable and innate understanding of their role in life. Many Collies are born with what's called 'eye', and as yours, they will maintain eye contact. In the useful dog, that 'eye' is actually recognised by sheep, and gives the dog a power over them, and 'power' is the word which is used by handlers. 'Power' has nothing to do with the physical side of the dog, it's within the dog's psyche, and those of us who train sheepdogs seek out dogs such as yours!

The dog which behaves as yours around cyclists or people or cars or ducks, or anything which moves, is actually attempting to fulfil its natural role. If you are to deny the dog its inbuilt wish to 'think' about its role in life, then you will most likely end up with what you have, and what you have is a dog which is describing, perfectly, it's frustration. In the event that you have no interest in sheep dog training, then if you were to give the dog a similar role, then that would at least relieve the dog's frustration.

If it's your intention to attempt to undo the work of previous generations, then that's your choice. There is though, and as your'e finding out, a price to pay.

Alec.
Click to expand...

I agree, working breeds need a job. That is why collies are great at agility and fly ball etc.
 
Good luck with the tests. I hope you get an answer soon!

I have no real advice just wanted to offer some support. I have a collie cross gsd who is a psycho and I know how hard it is. Mine is very loving however had been abused as a puppy and displays a lot of the behaviour yours does when threatened. Luckily he has come through this now and is normal 99% of the time however still obsesses over toys etc.
I do find I have to baby him, the slightest change in tone of voice and he turns into a wreck.

My first thought was something like partial seizures or epilepsy however I may be way off the mark with this, although I have seen cats behave in this way when fitting.

Good luck
 
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