Loose ligaments and weak joints in 4yo Advice Please!

astewart13

astewart13

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Hi there,

My 4yo has been displaying lameness behind to varying degrees over the past few months. A physio with veterinary background was called who treated him for a rotated pelvis which occurred when he slipped and fell on concrete. He was sounds for a week or two then since as not been tracking up properly behind. Canter is out of the question and he has been nappy and uncomfortable in trot. He slips and trips over himself a lot especially on the road which did improve after physio but then degenerated again.

Physio was called out again who recommended he was seen by vet, who after examining him concluded he was just a weak baby and he ligaments/joints etc needed time to strengthen on their own with light hacking over a few months. He was displaying lameness on left hind, just not tracking up correctly.

Has anyone had any experience of this? I hope that the vets diagnosis is correct but I am worried that because he grew so much as a 4yo after not being fed very well, that breaking him and bringing him into work (6months ago, with some time off) has been too much for him and caused long term damage or OCD.

Any advice/ experiences would be appreciated. Thanks
 
I dont want to sound rude and i definitely dont mean to be, but he is maybe just short of quality schooling and balance and slips on the road because of metal shoes on a slidy surface the nappyness could be coming from lack of confidence because of this and not pain or temperament related!! So try some good quality schooling concentrating on his arse end and the hindleg muscles both riding and lunging with a pessoa good chance hes not lame just short good producing:):)
 
If he's not mature enough then don't work him, allow him to mature and strengthen up naturally; he's only four, where's the rush? Bigger horses don't mature fully until sometimes seven or more and if he's had a bad start in life then he needs more time to recover fully. He's a big gangly youngster that's been asked to work before his body is ready, it's bound to be weak.
 
Thanks everyone. I am hoping that more schooling and perhaps going back to long reining, and lunging etc will help as suggested by the vet. He was a poor 3yo and now looks like a strapping 4yo but perhaps the muscle is covering all sorts of weaknesses. He was very sound and correct when he was only doing about 20mins a day and now that he is being asked to more is presenting lame. As the vet put it his ''head is in front of him' meaning he wants to do more but isn't physically able. Physio is worried about stifle problems on the leg which doesn't appear to be tracking up correctly more so on a circle than in a straight line
 
How big is he now? And do you know what breeding? If it's any of - or a combination of - ID, WB and/or TB then it's primarily a maturity problem. A youngster who gets a bad check at 6 months, 12 months or so WILL eventually make up - but he'll grow first - and strengthen later!

The fall obviously didn't help - when a youngster hurts itself, it adapts to discomfort by moving incorrectly - the muscles and ligaments get used to that way of going. I have a 5 year old who suffered a Sacro-iliac injury as a 2 year old - but wasn't lame as such. After considerable amounts of treatment and physio, she WOULD pass a 5 stage vetting - and probably even win a Novice dressage test - but she's STILL not 100%. It takes time!

Growing as a 4 year old is unlikely to cause OCD - if they don't have it by 1 (even if it's not diagnosed at the time) then they're unlikel;y to get it. If he's sound - and sensible enough - I would walk him - and walk him - and walk him - ideally on a longish rein, encouraging him to stretch down - and - ideally - walk up and down hills. I would do this for at LEAST 3 months and then review the situation before deciding whether it's another 3 months of walking - or introducing some steady trots!
 
I definitely disagree with working hard and in a Pessoa or other gadgets, lots of walking and turnout is called for.
No lunging, I have a horse which has only this year been able to canter on the lunge, he is eight and has been croup high for most of his earlier years, unbalanced.
 
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I know three horses by the same stallion which is reputed locally to produce slow maturing offspring. One, which I have not seen, was not thought strong enough to break until six years old.

The other two both have very lax ligaments. The first had upward fixation of the patella at two, but was brought on so that it was jumping at four and ready to go BE80/90 at five. It went lame behind and was diagnosed with a stifle injury which required a year of field rest to come right. He is now 7 and jumping BS, but we are all holding our breaths.

The other's pasterns were so weak that his ergots hit the floor in trot at 3, so he was taken extremely slowly. He is now 6 and only just learning to jump and hasn't yet ever been galloped.

My advice with your youngster would be to turn him away for a year if you can bear to wait, or walk if not, like JG says. Preferably on hills, either way.
 
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Im finding this really interesting.I have 5 yr old id x wb who is going to vets tuesday for lameness workout.Apparently had been backed at 3 and turned away both my trainers seriously doubt he was backed.He was very green and reacted as if he hadnt been handled or had been handled badly.He runs (pain related I feel )if worried.I couldnt touch his back end for several weeks although I can do anything inhand now he was very nervous.
I sent him away to be proff broken for 4 weeks but had him back home early because he wasnt right.He was unshod and trainer thought he was footy his hooves had never been looked at and were short so he came back to be shod see dentist (still had Baby teeth) and have further saddle check.
After attending to his hooves etc and having break to do further ground work I started again from home with my regular instructor , unfortunatley he broke down just as we started making good progress physio thinks school was too deep and his saddle needed changing again.Hes seen physio and mc timoni with vets permission and had hindleg lameness possibly due to hamstring tightness/pull.I have been walking him everyday and doing exercises to strengthen his back plus walking over poles.This week walking over poles he was fresh and did too much trot instead of walk and has gone back to being sore in foreleg.Its diagonal to the hind that he was having problems with.Im wondering if a lot of his problems are weakness but want it checked out so we dont aggrivate or cause further damage. Hes had 6 weeks building strength with walking exercise.
Very stressed and worried re outcome for tuesday but wondering if my issues are similiar to yours.Let me know howyou get on :)
 
I have a now 6 YO mare that has a longer back. It goes with her lengthy neck, shoulder, and pelvis. She has hyperflexion in her back. Much wider range of motion than a shorter back but it also takes much longer for the ligaments to strengthen.

Do not lunge endlessly or use gadgets. He will get more sore. Also a fall in the road takes more time heal than just a physio. This horse is only four so I'd just relax for a bit.

Can you PM me the vet in Ireland? I'd say it may be one of mine and never mind what the naysayers say. Easy to criticise on a forum. I use him because my money is well spent in getting to the actual root problem instead stringing you along with nothing ever being sorted. FWIW, I had so 2 comprehensive vet exams on this mare as she had a head/neck injury as a foal. I keep thinking she will have nuero issues. She has been fine both times. Just quite immature. After jumping last year I spent this year reschooling some issues I spotted too late with her old rider. She's developed quite nicely and has done well for the time. She will be a much better jumper at 7.

Best of luck and remember he's only 4. Don't be in a rush or you will be fixing things you shouldn't have to be.

Terri
 
if I was in your shoes I would turn him away in a large herd on a large acerage, for at least 6 months then review the situation.
he would exercise himself naturally by moving about for grazing with the herd, if he is a backward baby give him time and it should come right but if you are riding/lunging/long reining something that is phisically weak through immaturity you risk causing pain and creating a youngster that associates being ridden with pain and will then become reactive, let him do the work for himselfbeing out with a herd will also give his brain natural stimulation
 
Thanks everyone for ur replies. I am encouraged that time could be a healer! He is an ID/TB so possible late developer. We are going back to the vet in 3weeks to review and if needed I will turn him out. I have seen some improvement this week with only 15mins this week and lots of turnout. In fact he is barely presenting any problem! Thanks everyone!
 
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