loosing my allotment help please

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paulapup

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Hi, I just wondered if anyone else has had a similar problem, for 11 years I have rented my allotment that I keep my ponies on from our district council, 2 years ago our parish council took over the running of the allotments and gave us notice to quit (2 other owners ) the land is to be used for gardening,
the council say that according to allotment law you can only keep chickens and rabbits on allotments, is the allotment law really legal or just a book on how people like to run allotments, getting frightened now has I think my time will be up soon both my ponies are elderly 20 and 30 both with cushings and one with IR, they did say they would relocate us but I cant see this happening has they have run out of money, do I have any right to stay where I am legally, would hope my boys could see there days out where they are, grateful for any help.
 
paulapup said:
Hi, I just wondered if anyone else has had a similar problem, for 11 years I have rented my allotment that I keep my ponies on from our district council, 2 years ago our parish council took over the running of the allotments and gave us notice to quit (2 other owners ) the land is to be used for gardening,
the council say that according to allotment law you can only keep chickens and rabbits on allotments, is the allotment law really legal or just a book on how people like to run allotments, getting frightened now has I think my time will be up soon both my ponies are elderly 20 and 30 both with cushings and one with IR, they did say they would relocate us but I cant see this happening has they have run out of money, do I have any right to stay where I am legally, would hope my boys could see there days out where they are, grateful for any help.
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From memory - allotments are for the growing of food for humans wether plant or animal. They were issued originally to the tenents of terraced hoousing who had no real garden to enable them to provide food for their families.

MAybe you can get the other allotment owners to help keep youo there - as I expect they have helped with the disposal of horse poo over the years.
 
An interesting situation!Clearly you have openly kept your horses on land rented to you by the Borough council. You have paid rent and it has been accepted and a form of tennancy has been established. The Parish council,in taking on the responsability for the land,also took on your tennancy on the same basis as it was with the Borough council.If they were not prepared to accept it ,they should have taken the matter up with your (then) landlords ,the borough council.If they wish to end this tennancy, they will first have to establish exactly what type of tennancy you have .This may be a very difficult task particularly if you have also kept any agricultural animals (eg chickens). You can not be in breech of allotment regulations because whatever form of tennancy you have is long established ,and they took the land over on that basis.Keep all contact with the parish council in writing and find a good land agent (any good agricultural estate agent will know what you need).Dont agree to anything and DONT MOVE OUT .They will have to make you an offer.Dont panic you are in a strong position.
 
Nobody has to keep their land rented to anybody-so ong as sufficient notice is given and no contract terms are breached in regards to lease length.
 
SusieT said:
Nobody has to keep their land rented to anybody-so ong as sufficient notice is given and no contract terms are breached in regards to lease length.
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Aaah but what is the lease length in this case?If the parish council have any sense they will find you an alternative and make the deal as attractive to you as possible.
 
Two ponies on an allotment? how big is it?
As far as i know, you can't keep large animals on an alotment, as someone else has said, it id primaraly for feeding yourself, so you can grow veg, keep chooks etc, you arent even supposed to grow stuff to sell for profit.
If they have said they will relocate you, i would press them to tell you when and where, but in the meantime find somewhere else incase they dont.
 
I think the laws you need to find are

Small Holdings and allotments Act 1908 - you might be able to get somewhere on the small holding basis...
Allotments Act 1922
Allotments Act 1925
Allotments Act 1950

From something I printed off from the National Society of Allotment & Leisure Gardeners:

"Sometimes confusion arises about the keeping of live stock on an allotment plot. Generally speaking, any creature can be kept with the express permission of the Landlord Paramount (the municipal authority). Pursuant to the provisions of Section 12 Allotments Act 1950, domestic chickens (but not cockerels), and/or rabbits can be kept and housed on an allotment plot as of right. This means that the consent of the Landlord Paramount is not required and need not be sought. Any attempt to impose conditions or a prohibition on the keeping of hens and/or rabbits is ineffective."

So, if you had express permission from the original Landlord (district council) in the first place to graze your horses, there, then I think that the only way the Parish Council as new landlord could get you out would be to give you statutory termination, they would have to give you 12 months notice. However, this could not finish later than 6th April or earlier than 29 September in any given year.

If however, they claimed you were in breach of the conditions of your tenancy, then the provisions of section 146 Law of property act 1925 come into play, the tenant (you) must be given a reasonable opportunity to rectifiy the alleged breach/breaches. This is where you might be able to argue you aren't causing a breach if you had the permission in the first place.

Lots for you to read there, it might be worth you posting this on an allotments forum, you might get more opinions there than here.

Google Allotments, as well as the organisation above, there's also one called something like the national allotment gardens trust.
 
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Fii said:
Two ponies on an allotment? how big is it?
As far as i know, you can't keep large animals on an alotment, QUOTE]

So clearly the borough council didnt consider it an allotment for the eleven years they took rent and the parish council took posession on the same basis.Because everyone knows you cant keep horses on an allotment:DA lot of allotment land fell into disuse around the country and was used for other purposes. The increase in popularity of gardening has led for a renewed demand for plots.This does not mean that the parish council can simply default on the tennancy they inherited.
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Mike007 said:
Fii said:
Two ponies on an allotment? how big is it?
As far as i know, you can't keep large animals on an alotment, QUOTE]

So clearly the borough council didnt consider it an allotment for the eleven years they took rent and the parish council took posession on the same basis.Because everyone knows you cant keep horses on an allotment:DA lot of allotment land fell into disuse around the country and was used for other purposes. The increase in popularity of gardening has led for a renewed demand for plots.This does not mean that the parish council can simply default on the tennancy they inherited.
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My initial thought was that one plot wouldnt be big anough for two ponies.
I suppose you would have to know what the original writen lease stated, if the lease said no livestock, and the op eather ignored it or did'nt read it, then as far as i can see, they dont have a leg to stand on.
If on the other hand this was not stated, then they have a good case.
I am also serprised that the other alotment holders alowed it to carry on with out complaining.
Someone round here tried to keep a few sheep on hers and was told within weeks to move on.
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Going back quite a few years now but we used to keep horses and ponies on allotments (as did lots of other people) we lost our plots because of CPO's on the land. I do know that lots of the allotments round here now don't allow livestock, some allow poultry but AFAIK there is no law against as such. I would think that unless you have signed a new agreement with the Parish Council then you will still be bound by the Local Authority agreement.
It is perfectly possible to keep horses or ponies on an allotment, I can't see why it is any different from a small yard?
 
Not really any help but we had a similar situation.

We had our ponies on allotments for 6yrs (had 7 plots together) . A new commitee took over & started to evicted the horse owners - of which there were around 20.
We decided to leave of our own accord before it started to kick off & then there would be no land left to rent in the area.
We found a field & have now been there 4yrs. I do believe a few of the horse owners are still on the allotments, but I know a lot that had a lot of trouble trying to find somewhere else to go.

Personally I would find somewhere else, yes the rent will probably go up (ours went from £70 a year to £10 a week!!) but its better than being stuck with nowhere to go. Good luck xx
 
Mike is correct, I askd my dad he works for the council and deals with allotments, he said if you have been renting that long with the horses already on you have a right to remain until you no longer need it for your horses then the can make new rules in regard to new horses going on.
 
Allotments are purely for the growing of food,be it plants or chooks/rabbits.I find it extreordinary that anyone would even begin to think it ok to keep ponies on one! Personally,too, if I were busy growing vegs on a plot I certainly would not want the threat of ponies breaking into my allotment and undoing my years work. Get `em off before you are ,quite rightly, forced to do so.
 
Thanks for all your thoughts, horses have always been kept on allotments in our area so this is not unusual, mine is approx quarter of an acre use it for stabling has the ponies need to come off the field (Laminitis due to cushings), we rent a field also between us at back of allotments we are not allowed to put stabling on it. I understand about growing but the plots that have been made available to gardeners have not been taken up, only a handful of people want them, some people are quite aggressive when all I wanted to know was if other people had any experience to share but everyone entitled to there opinion.
 
P.S in all the years us 3 horse owners have been on these particular allotments our horses have not escaped once, because we take pride in them and have good fencing, like we look after our horses well.part of my allotment was also gardened by my husband so the fencing had to be good, but since the eviction notice he has lost heart, has all the sheds ect will be ploughed down, this may seem trivial to some people the allotment is near home so good for when the snow was down could still get up there, last year couldnt get car out for 3 days due to snow. when I bought my horse 20 years ago many where kept on allotments in this area, so I am the norm round here, I put on the previous post that we have 12 horses between us on a 54 acre field, though now my cob will probably not be allowed out to graze because of his IR, both my horses get the medication they need (prascend and metformin) just because we are on allotments not yards does not mean we dont count only wanted some people with similar experiences to pass on there thoughts I know its not my land but its been a place I have had many happy hours here, with my animals and my family, so dont need anybody telling me to clear off
 
Fii said:
I suppose it depends on how big each plot is, or wether you rent ajoining plots to make them large enough!
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Yes I see what you mean, the plots we had were back inthe 70's and early 80's which were much bigger and less 'orthodox' shapes than the very regimented 20ft by 40ft that most councils are going for now.
We didn't have any grazing but we did keep our horses and ponies very well, 3 of them went to HOYS and RIHS as show/hunter ponies. Most of the bigger ones actually worked doing pony rides and drives several times a week, and they had plenty of exercise.
I think the notion that you require lots of space to keep a horse is a very modern thing possibly brought about by laziness of those who would rather see their horse for the bare minimum time rather than invest some effort into it's well being and upkeep!
 
Build some illegal mobile homes on it, move in and blob out an unending supply of kids and you should be ok for another 10 years, that will seee out your horses, the cost will be about a £million per year to the council taxpayer, plus the council and baliffs even though legal will be branded as the bad guys by the do gooder PC brigade, so plenty of support there then, just a thought......
 
Don't listen to those that have been aggressive - I've been there! You say allotment & people assume you are on a tiny patch of land with crap, dangerous fencing!!

Ours was the same - plots offered to gardeners but no-one wanted them so were then offered for horses - & there were a lot that took up the offer. Gardeners never moaned, infact they loved the free muck we gave them!! We all got on & the old gardeners loved to see my little girl riding.

We probably could have stayed with a fight, but the commitee were going the court route to get us off & I couldn't be arsed with a battle.

I do hope you get sorted - good luck xxx
 
Oh & just to add that I completely agree with baggybreeches - it is hard work with a small field but very do-able. While being there my girl managed to compete very successfully with her pony, out jumping every weekend & qualifying & competing at a lot of national finals - we did get some odd looks when people asked where we were stabled though!!! & we never had stables & only 1 jumping fence :D
 
I haven't read all the posts and don;t know your particular circumstances, but most Parish Councils aren't financed well enough to take you to court (the villagers would have to foot the bill if they loose, which is not generally popular!!

So, I would suggest that you check out the legal position and then go and talk to the PC. If you are reasonable, explain that your horses are very old and won't be going on for ever, and that unless you can find a good alternative you need them to stay, and the alternative is euthanasia.

I bet they find you somewhere if they really want the land back. If you have any friends in the village who would support your cause, it is also a really good idea to get them to talk/email/phone the PCouncillors - it is after all their duty to reflect the village's view, not just their own.

Its also a good idea to go the the PC Meetings and introduce yourself, as it is much harder for them to take away something that if really quite precious, if you become a person, not just an anomonous face!!

But remember, the aim is to get good grazing for your horses, don't get distracted by personalities yourself in the meantime!!

Good luck.
 
I still fail to understand why if the owner of the land is terminating the lease, without breaking legal contracts (you don't say what your contract says..) you think you have any right to use somebody elses land when they don't want you to. You may not want to move, but that has no real bearing on the issue. Go and find a nice field to rent, they're not too hard to find or move to a yard. It may not be your preference but that's life.
 
Baggybreeches said:
I think the notion that you require lots of space to keep a horse is a very modern thing possibly brought about by laziness of those who would rather see their horse for the bare minimum time rather than invest some effort into it's well being and upkeep!
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I have to disagree with you there ,during my life time, around here, horses would be grazed in fields, (and probably brought in at night) very few, if any that i knew would be kept on small padocks or nothing at all.
In fact, strip grazing, and tiny paddocks i would say is a more modern way of keeping horses.
While i understand there is more than one way to skin a cat, or keep a horse, i beleive my horses are very happy to be able to run a bout and graze with space about them, out 24/7 unless they need a stable for medical reasons.
 
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