Lorry battery help & jump starting.....please!

[Coop]

Bloomin box!!

Went to give it a run today, well it has been 3 weeks, I know I know!

Last time I drove it back from the lorry man who had jumped it in the morning as had not been using isolator like I do, so I took it home which is about 15 minutes away, took isolator off and left it till now. He had it in the workshop for 3 weeks so I expect he just jumped it each time.

Went to start it and its 'clicking', tries to sort of turn but won't. Is this the battery? Lights work on and off, so i'm thinking he nearly drained the batteries while he had it and they have not charged enough to start it, and me leaving it has killed it?! I'm not used to a 24v as only had a 6.5 tonne before. This is the first time its not started before.

Can I jump it off my mums 4x4 with heavy duty leads?

Or get a battery charger and charge? Think they must be very dead. Not sure just taking it out for a run will do. I think I am going to buy one of those 24v chargers/starters anyway as I think it would be a good idea.

Any 24v advice would be very helpful. Thanks!

 

[bluehorse]

It could be your starter motor, mine was doing something similiar and that's what it turned out to be.

Or it could be that your battery is no longer holding a charge, which means any amount of running won't get it charged up for starting the next time you run it - in this case you'll need a new battery.

Mine neeeded a new starter motor and a new battery, but that's worst case scenario! Starts perfectly now though.

I'm not sure if it is advisable to jump start from a 4x4, I know you can't jump start from a normal car so I personally wouldn't risk it as I think it can damage the car - any access to a tractor or another lorry to jumpstart from?

Hope this helps...

 

[keepcalmanddriveon]

Hi Coop,

Now, I'm by no means a mechanic but my background is electronics.

12v jumping 24v is never going to work, sadly, just not enough "oomph" in there to turn things. If you measure the battery voltage you'll probably find its much higher than 12v already & as you know, even whatever is in it isnt enough to turn the starter.

You dont say what type of battery/batteries they are - whether it is several 12v cells in series or a single 24v beast of a battery. You *could* charge the 12v cells using a normal 12v charger. Or pick up a 24v charger (about 100 quid from the likes of Screwfix) to do the "deed". As you say, getting one is never a bad idea anyway - I know people who have spent the extra money to get something capable of boost charge & trickle too, so that when the truck isnt in use it is constantly "plugged in" & the batteries are kept topped up.

The other option you have is...do you have anyone else with a 24v system you can take a jolt off of? That would solve it.

For info, a 15 minute journey home will not be enough to charge the battery, so when you get it running, take the truck for a good long run before you turn it off again.

Out of pure curiosity - what make / model of truck? & does it have a volt/battery meter in the cab?

 

[Clannad48]

Sorry but have to contradict you - it is possible to jumpstart a lorry from a car. I used to on a regular basis when I was too cheap to buy a new battery for my lorry. I agree that a 15 min journey is nowhere long enough to charge the lorry battery up. It will take at least a good 30 - 45 min run.

 

[keepcalmanddriveon]

Sorry but have to contradict you - it is possible to jumpstart a lorry from a car. I used to on a regular basis when I was too cheap to buy a new battery for my lorry.

I'll defer to your personal experience on that one...but must say I'm quite surprised it worked - good on you

 

[Coop]

Its an iveco 75e15.

Normally take it out every week but had the norovirus and flu!! No excuse really....!

I always use the isolator but he had it for 3 weeks and I doubt he used it, and I know he jumped it when I collected it, then of course I didn't use it for 3 weeks....I expect they were nearly dead when I collected it?!

There are 2 large batteries for starting, and a seperate leisure which has its own isolator on a seperate system.

Just never had it with a box before, a battery failure virgin i'm afraid. There are some lights on the dash.....glow plug goes off as it does on a normal diesel, then I go to start it......but the battery light is on.....I am such a div I have never noticed if this stays on normally or not????????????? It does a series of clicks and sounds like it wants to start....but no.

I tried the lights as I had a brainwave they may give me an indication of the battery....and they turn on and off randomly. The tacho light comes on when I put the isolator on though as normal. Maybe an ounce of battery left?

 

[Coop]

Ooh, not sure about battery indicator, only ever look at the air brake measure-er, will check it out.

 

[scribble]

two bib batteries sounds like 2x 12v ones in paralell whihc would give you 24volt rather than the one 24vfolt so you can charge this with a 12volt charger if it is heavy enough to charge it. I had this and put it on charge overnight for each battery then leave it or use it and see if it holds the charge and starts ok. If it does you know it just needed a good charge. If it doesnt start at all after charging and batteries are flat again then you will need two new ones and poss a starter motor if the hcarge is there nbut wont start.

the click sound can also be the stop solenoid jammed and not coming off to allow the lorry to start. normally give this a tap or smack with a hammer to get it to come off nd try again. not sure where they are on an Iveco.

 

[Coop]

two bib batteries sounds like 2x 12v ones in paralell whihc would give you 24volt rather than the one 24vfolt so you can charge this with a 12volt charger if it is heavy enough to charge it. I had this and put it on charge overnight for each battery then leave it or use it and see if it holds the charge and starts ok. If it does you know it just needed a good charge. If it doesnt start at all after charging and batteries are flat again then you will need two new ones and poss a starter motor if the hcarge is there nbut wont start.

the click sound can also be the stop solenoid jammed and not coming off to allow the lorry to start. normally give this a tap or smack with a hammer to get it to come off nd try again. not sure where they are on an Iveco.

Can the solenoid thing just randomly do that then? Thanks for all the advice. All my own doing I am sure!

 

[keepcalmanddriveon]

I'm with scribble on this one...sounds like 2x 12v & the advice is good.

Battery light should go off after it starts I think as they only usually monitor the charging circuit for current. More than likely if you have a light, you wont have a battery meter/gauge.

Sure is worth whipping the batteries out & charging them in turn overnight as per scribble's suggestion though I'd say

 

[keepcalmanddriveon]

Can the solenoid thing just randomly do that then? Thanks for all the advice. All my own doing I am sure!

Yeah they can get stuck - had it happen on an old car in the family once. Old man spent 20 years in the motor trade & took to said solenoid with a hammer...fixed it. Had to be replaced in the end though. I dont think they're that expensive though as all they really are is a posh relay.

Doubt it really is your fault...these things are sent to try us. Currently battling with a "mass airflow" problem on the car which just seems to have "appeared". Luckily I have the computer & cable to reset the darned light. Now I just need to figure out what caused it.

Joys of motoring

 

[Coop]

I'm with scribble on this one...sounds like 2x 12v & the advice is good.

Battery light should go off after it starts I think as they only usually monitor the charging circuit for current. More than likely if you have a light, you wont have a battery meter/gauge.

Sure is worth whipping the batteries out & charging them in turn overnight as per scribble's suggestion though I'd say

Thankyou everyone,

Is is best to take them out or can I do it on the box, one by one? I'm sure it must be the batteries as I have been a bad owner,,, I am looking into 24v chargers/starters, my latest obsession. Can I get a mobile heavy duty one (like a battery in a box) or do they always need to be plugged in to start a box? I have a small 12v car charger, not sure of the ampage if its worth using that to charge.

Glad I tried to start it today, not next Monday when I am due at the vets!

 

[keepcalmanddriveon]

Is is best to take them out or can I do it on the box, one by one?

Personally I'd whip them out - purely from the point of view of charging them on the box, whilst they're still connected, you could very well be supplying all of the charge current to whatever is draining them.

Can I get a mobile heavy duty one (like a battery in a box) or do they always need to be plugged in to start a box?

The mobile ones are usually only good for about 1 shot in my experience & even then are pretty weak. Much prefer something one can tether to 240v myself

I have a small 12v car charger, not sure of the ampage if its worth using that to charge.

I reckon it should happily put some juice back into the 12v cells you've got there, just do them one at a time overnight & give them a go tomorrow

 

[Ditchjumper2]

I am not sure on the age on your lorry, but if it is one of the newer electric sorts 04 plate ish then you cannot just jump start them the same as you can the old ones, or you can ****** up the electrics. We jump started our old lorry from the car though.

 

[Armas]

I have a 7.5t Daf 45 a few weeks ago I left some thing switched on :-( I tried to jump it from my small tractor with out any luck.
It took 2 sets of jump leads on to both batteries to start it. Once it was going I took it for a drive. It was fine. I also connected the batteries up to a charger whist still in the lorry to much of a pain to move but they are easily accessible. It's been fine ever since.
Hope that helps.

 

[Coop]

Thanks everyone, nothing like a good Sunday afternoon mechanical conundrum.

Its a 1999 s reg.

What amp booster pack thing do I need, seem to be many, the ones on machinemart seem popular on h&h? I will get a plug in one I think thanks. I am also buying some heavy duty leads at the same time, what amp for them please?
So many amp choices!

I think I will leave the jump starting.........don't like fireworks at the best of times, and need at least one vehicle roadworthy!

 

[Coop]

I have an onboard 12v charger and inverter, but they are on a separate system and they are isolated with the leisure battery so I don't think that would have anything to do with it? That has been isolated the whole time.

 

[nikki_07766]

We jump start ours from a car all the time, as long as you have the heavy duty jump leads designed for lorries and not the flimsy car one's it's fine. We have owned lorries for many years and most winters we have to jump start more often than not. Using cars from little pug 306 petrol, all the way up to my big 2.2L diesel. Never have we ******ed a battery, car or lorry.... you just have to know how to do it!.

 

[carthorse]

How old are the batteries they may need changing. You can get the cells checked. We bought new ones when ours lost charge and use theold ones for the electric fence

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

Started mine yesterday ...fine.

this morning dead!

Jumped it off the battery charger so could get to show.

No idea why it died, stupid lorry! Due an MOT check so will get that done asap!

 

[Coop]

Bad luck, These things are sent to try us!! Lucky you made it back ok.

No idea how old, if there is any trouble after charging I am replacing them first as there is no way of knowing, can't be doing with the pony limo being unreliable!

 

[perfect11s]

I have an onboard 12v charger and inverter, but they are on a separate system and they are isolated with the leisure battery so I don't think that would have anything to do with it? That has been isolated the whole time.

should be totaly seperate , firsty be carefull baterys give off gas when being charged so no sparks by shorts with tools and make sure everything is swiched off before conecting or disconecting, Think of a battery as a bucket of water once its realy empty (Discharged) it takes more than a cup full to fill it which is what hapens when you jump start it and only run it for a few minuits, to fill up the batterys right up you would need to run the lorry about 6 hours !!
best thing is to charge them one at a time with a mains powered charger which is rated at about 12 amps allow each batery about 24 hours to fully recharge if your charger is less amps it may take longer , you may find one or both batterys are weak a auto electrician should be able to test them and the lorry alternator if charging dosent fix the problem .... the other thing is leaving baterys with a low charge will ruin them if they are kept fully charged they will last years...

 

[amandaco2]

Id also check the wires...mine did the same as was found to have one of the wire connectors loose and also too lightweight for the charge.....

 

[Coop]

Thanks for all the help!!

I have just looked at the batteries and they are connected to each other with one lead from + to - of either one, so can I leave them connected to each other and just connect the charger to one battery first, then the next once done? (with the main batteries isolated of course)

 

[Nicnac]

Coop - have a similar set up to you on a Daf Roadrunner. Bought a Draper BCS 230 12/24v Charger/Starter a couple of years or so back. Fantastic bit of kit and wasn't that expensive.

 

[Coop]

Thanks! I was just looking at the draper one on amazon! Definitely getting one, you never know!

 

[Nosey]

My batteries are hooked up like yours..i charge both at same time ie one lead on positive on one battery & negative on the other. I'm in same boat at mo..also neglected to turnover for a while & with the cold weather b4 Xmas think its killed them :-(.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Sorry but have to contradict you - it is possible to jumpstart a lorry from a car. I used to on a regular basis when I was too cheap to buy a new battery for my lorry. I agree that a 15 min journey is nowhere long enough to charge the lorry battery up. It will take at least a good 30 - 45 min run.

Yes I agree we have jumped lorries from cars and land rovers from very small cars . Rev the engine in the car while doing it and bob's your uncle

 

[Coop]

My batteries are hooked up like yours..i charge both at same time ie one lead on positive on one battery & negative on the other. I'm in same boat at mo..also neglected to turnover for a while & with the cold weather b4 Xmas think its killed them :-(.

Ha ha we are bad truckers! The lights on the dash were dimming as I remember amidst the panic! Ok thanks will try that with a 24v charger.....had a look and I'm not sure I have the skills to take them off myself! Poor little big lorry!

 

[PeterNatt]

Disconnect the batteries completely by removing the negative lead first, followed by the link between the two batteries, followed by the positive lead.
Then charge one of the two batteries with a 12 volt charger until it is fully charged.
Then charge the remainder of the two batteries with a 12 volt charger until it is fully charged.
(You can buy battery chargers from Halfords but buy the heavy duty charger for batteries in diesel engined vehicles)
When you reconnect the batteries connect the positive lead first to the positive pole of the battery, then the connector between the two batteries and lastly the negative lead.
Your vehicle should then start, however if the batteries go flat again or won't charge then but two new good quality batteries.