Lose horses London again

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I think the soldiers parading on foot in all their smart uniforms would provide just as much of a spectacle. There is no need for the horses

 

[teapot]

I don't really want my taxes used to teach soldiers to ride, especially not while we have the highest tax burden in history while the army cries out for money to defend us.
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On one of the most highly valued sites in London too. MOD could make a fortune if they ever chose to sell.

Though I will ask - do you feel the same way about your taxes being spent on the Red Arrows? It’s well known their costs (and number of personnel involved) is huge. For what? Let’s be honest, 20/30 air displays a year? All comes out the same MOD budget.

They, like the HCAv are steeped in tradition, are sold as a good for the general public/greater good across the world in terms of soft diplomacy, and will be very much likely have people in high places saying ‘you can’t cut us Sir’.

 

[Glitter's fun]

I find it odd that regular soldiers are taken out of learning to stay alive and defend us, in order to do ceremonial work.
If it has to continue (and that's debatable) would it be better to have a professional troop of experienced full time parade performers ?

 

[teapot]

I find it odd that regular soldiers are taken out of learning to stay alive and defend us, in order to do ceremonial work.
If it has to continue (and that's debatable) would it be better to have a professional troop of experienced full time parade performers ?

They’re not taken out though, or at least it’s not that black and white. Take your new soldier, fresh out of basic training and they decided to join the Household Cavalry.

- 20 weeks at Bovington learning their main job
- Once completed they go to Windsor for 12 riding course
- Then 12-24 months at Knightsbridge
- Back to Bovington for further training

And then repeat. It’s literally built in to their career path. It also doesn’t leave gaps anywhere as there’s a constant new batch coming through. If however it got to a stage where numbers were required in force (we probably don’t have enough armoured vehicles to do it anyway though!), it would be different, but it didn’t happen during Iraq or Afghanistan, bar maybe the rare individual.

Whether horses and air displays are worth the budget spend is another entirely different question in a 21st century world.

 

[Glitter's fun]

They’re not taken out though, or at least it’s not that black and white. Take your new soldier, fresh out of basic training and they decided to join the Household Cavalry.

- 20 weeks at Bovington learning their main job
- Once completed they go to Windsor for 12 riding course
- Then 12-24 months at Knightsbridge
- Back to Bovington for further training

And then repeat. It’s literally built in to their career path. It also doesn’t leave gaps anywhere as there’s a constant new batch coming through. If however it got to a stage where numbers were required in force (we probably don’t have enough armoured vehicles to do it anyway though!), it would be different, but it didn’t happen during Iraq or Afghanistan, bar maybe the rare individual.

I read this to say that they spend 2 years+ out of their training for the main job. Am I misunderstanding?

 

[Burnerbee]

Maybe have professional riders just for the state occasions (relocated to Windsor)? Like the Royal Marines Band - they’re musicians, not marines….

 

[Skib]

I am a Londoner. London horses are trained to be used to the traffic.
We like to go and see the horses in Whitehall. Our kids and grand children liked it too. The horses are free to watch. The cavalry museum (where one pays for a ticket) is just to one side of the gate. And the guards show how traditional cavbalry tack was used.
I dont regard the guard riders as horsemen. They are being trained to man tanks. It wont hurt them to learn balance, communication, stoicism and possibly some bravery by learning to ride a horse. In Whtehall, the horseguards walk out, sit on the horse and have an emergency button to press, if they need help. A guy in khaki with a gun walks round every now and then to check they are all right. In hot weather it looks really uncomfortable. In WW1 horses stood for hours waiting for a parade to start with no relief. But these days the guards and horses are regularly checked.
Is it cruel to the horses? I dont know, but Michael Peace pointed out that horses need to work to earn their living, and if we want domesticated horses to continue in existence, there needs to be work for them.

I shoud add that as an elderly rider, I would not be able to ride without using the cavalry dismount. Though I dont slap the horse I ride before dismounting her.

 

[ycbm]

On one of the most highly valued sites in London too. MOD could make a fortune if they ever chose to sell.

Though I will ask - do you feel the same way about your taxes being spent on the Red Arrows? It’s well known their costs (and number of personnel involved) is huge. For what? Let’s be honest, 20/30 air displays a year? All comes out the same MOD budget.

They, like the HCAv are steeped in tradition, are sold as a good for the general public/greater good across the world in terms of soft diplomacy, and will be very much likely have people in high places saying ‘you can’t cut us Sir’.

No I don't feel exactly the same way because the flying skills are needed and it also sends a clear message to people who might want to fly war planes into our air space. It's also a fabulous RAF recruitment tool.
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[criso]

Though I will ask - do you feel the same way about your taxes being spent on the Red Arrows? It’s well known their costs (and number of personnel involved) is huge. For what? Let’s be honest, 20/30 air displays a year

Probably less keen as I find planes boring.

But are the pilots also pilots in other scenarios in which case you could argue there is at least a skills overlap.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I watched a documentary about the blues and royals I think it was and the raw recruit who has never ridden was given 12 weeks training then was out on ceremonial duties. Some of the recruits passed the test at the end of the course but were falling off all the time. I guess what I’m saying is the riders aren’t sufficiently skilled in horsemanship hence the problems.

^^^ Exactly this.

There seems to be an inherent issue with military personnel with little or no experience of being around horses, suddenly being plonked up there, and expected to deal with some of the busiest traffic on the planet. The ceremonial uniforms they have to wear doesn't help either, as they are very hard & inflexible to wear - not exactly the best thing to be wearing on a bolting horse.

I think the other issue seems to be that these horses just do not seem to receive the level of acclimatisation to potentially spooky situations that they used to. This no doubt is due to economic measures which are affecting the military (and police) as well as everywhere else, but there does seem to be an ongoing problem, and it isn't getting any better. You never used to hear about events like this, now it seems they are ever-increasing.

Personally I do not believe horses should be banned in central London (or any other busy city/town centre area for that matter). But I do think firstly the level of horsemanship needs examination & rectification, and secondly the level of training and acclimatisation these horses receive.

 

[Arzada]

In Whtehall, the horseguards walk out, sit on the horse and have an emergency button to press, if they need help. A guy in khaki with a gun walks round every now and then to check they are all right.

There is an emergency button but worryingly there isn't an emergency response in a few of the Buska videos. I have yet to see a guy in khaki with a gun walking around. There are however approximately four armed MOD Police present who step in to 'deal with' some tourists. The female MOD Police officer in particular looks out for the guards and the horses.

 

[Michen]

I don't really want my taxes used to teach soldiers to ride, especially not while we have the highest tax burden in history while the army cries out for money to defend us.
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Your taxes are already being used to teach soldiers how to downhill ski race, for example, in Verbier. The adventurous training opportunities in the army are huge and varied, and necessary I'd have thought to attract people in.

I know the riding aspect doesn't quite fall in to that category but it probably is all part of the appeal for people to join, learning new skills etc.

 

[ycbm]

Your taxes are already being used to teach soldiers how to downhill ski race, for example, in Verbier. The adventurous training opportunities in the army are huge and varied, and necessary I'd have thought to attract people in.

I know the riding aspect doesn't quite fall in to that category but it probably is all part of the appeal for people to join, learning new skills etc.

Skis don't eat much or not when you fall off them.
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[Crazy_cat_lady]

No I don't feel exactly the same way because the flying skills are needed and it also sends a clear message to people who might want to fly war planes into our air space. It's also a fabulous RAF recruitment tool.
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Agree, I'd rather watch the Red Arrows too

 

[Michen]

Skis don't eat much or not when you fall off them.
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I was referring to the financial aspect... I'd say a month skiing in verbier costs far more per person than a months worth of horse care and training for one horse.

 

[Skib]

I have yet to see a guy in khaki with a gun walking around.

I am old. May be it is grey. I dont know if they are military or are armed police. But OH gets a special invite to Westminster Abbey every summer and we plant poppies at the Abbey every November 11, so twice a year (at least) we visit the horseguards.

 

[teapot]

I was referring to the financial aspect... I'd say a month skiing in verbier costs far more per person than a months worth of horse care and training for one horse.

Indeed. The military’s adventure training budget would raise some eyebrows I feel.

 

[teapot]

Maybe have professional riders just for the state occasions (relocated to Windsor)? Like the Royal Marines Band - they’re musicians, not marines….

They will deploy if needed, usually medical or logistics related.

Fair point re recruitment @ycbm but I’d argue the Cavalry does that too. Interesting discussion though!

I read this to say that they spend 2 years+ out of their training for the main job. Am I misunderstanding?

To an outsider it may appear that way, but they see it as having two distinct roles rather than having a main job is that makes sense? Each half is as valued as the other.

 

[teapot]

Double posted