LOSING SHOES DUE TO THE BAD WEATHER

[Goldenstar]

Of course if you're determined that feed makes no difference at all you could always try it just to prove us wrong!

I too have seen the many posts advocating this lotion or that potion and in my time have tried many of them. My horse's hooves have never been in better shape than they are now, and should anyone require further "proof" I keep both my horses on full livery at the same yard, my boy is barefoot and on a barefoot diet, his hooves look amazing and have done 45 miles of roadwork in the last 3 weeks or so. My youngster is shod and is on the usual diet of chaff and mix with no supplements. Both horses are on the same grazing and only out at night. She hasn't lost a shoe yet but her hooves are crumbly and look a real state. They never have in any other year I've owned her (4 of them). I wonder what's making the difference?

For what it's worth I'm changing her over to the same diet as my lad is on, so I can see what happens, although I'm pretty sure her hooves will improve too.

Yes that what will happen I have three unshod and one shod but on the same diet the shod has amazing feet big strong frogs the farrier always says he the best feet he shoes but he arrived with flat feet weak heels weedy frogs .on the BF diet and the carefully managed frogs etc the difference is amazing.

 

[Venevidivici]

The hard feed diets of the horses on our yard have not changed in the past few wks&they are turned out for the same amount of time as over the past few weeks. However,several shoes have been lost recently. All have good feet &don't normally lose shoes,therefore it must be either the lovely,sticky mud,the grass(changeable due to the weather&season obv) or a combination of both:-/

 

[Tiffany]

Oberon out of interest what diet would you suggest to improve hoof quality. My farrier says my girl has got strong hooves but she's got navicular & she's greedy. Regards hard feed she's on small amount of Happy Hoof, hi fibre cubes & equi bites - good or bad would you say for hoof quality? Thanks

 

[Tiffany]

Sorry meant to say I'm genuinely interested in improving her feet if possible whilst trying to reduce her weight.

 

[CBFan]

Of course if you're determined that feed makes no difference at all you could always try it just to prove us wrong!

I too have seen the many posts advocating this lotion or that potion and in my time have tried many of them. My horse's hooves have never been in better shape than they are now, and should anyone require further "proof" I keep both my horses on full livery at the same yard, my boy is barefoot and on a barefoot diet, his hooves look amazing and have done 45 miles of roadwork in the last 3 weeks or so. My youngster is shod and is on the usual diet of chaff and mix with no supplements. Both horses are on the same grazing and only out at night. She hasn't lost a shoe yet but her hooves are crumbly and look a real state. They never have in any other year I've owned her (4 of them). I wonder what's making the difference?

For what it's worth I'm changing her over to the same diet as my lad is on, so I can see what happens, although I'm pretty sure her hooves will improve too.

PLEASE keep a photo diary! - It will be so interesting

 

[CBFan]

The hard feed diets of the horses on our yard have not changed in the past few wks&they are turned out for the same amount of time as over the past few weeks. However,several shoes have been lost recently. All have good feet &don't normally lose shoes,therefore it must be either the lovely,sticky mud,the grass(changeable due to the weather&season obv) or a combination of both:-/

There are lots of factors that may contribute to horses losing shoes - poor farriery being one of them, mud and poor diet being others. One thing to consider is that we have had 'spring conditions' since march and in the last 8 weeks or so, the grass has gone particularly mad so while the length of time that horses have been grazing may not have changed, I would be pretty sure that the amount of grass they are consuming will have increased quite significantly and thus the sugar content of their diet will be significantly higher...

 

[CBFan]

Oberon out of interest what diet would you suggest to improve hoof quality. My farrier says my girl has got strong hooves but she's got navicular & she's greedy. Regards hard feed she's on small amount of Happy Hoof, hi fibre cubes & equi bites - good or bad would you say for hoof quality? Thanks

Tiffany your horse's diet sounds quite barefoot friendly so if you had real concerns about hoof quality you might want to get your forrage analysed and a balanced diet plan writen, bespoke to your horse. Alternatively, feeding micronised linseed, Magnesium and Brewers yeast have ben shown to improve hood quality.

 

[Thistle]

Tiffany your horse's diet sounds quite barefoot friendly so if you had real concerns about hoof quality you might want to get your forrage analysed and a balanced diet plan writen, bespoke to your horse. Alternatively, feeding micronised linseed, Magnesium and Brewers yeast have ben shown to improve hood quality.

I have a horse who is losing shoes atm. I am not against barefoot, out of 6 equines here only 1 and a half are shod. He cannot cope without shoes. He is a big, mostly TB with typical TB feet and a lack of brain whilst turned out.

He grazes on a small well grazed paddock (fairly green atm)prob 10 - 12 hours a day. Has hay overnight (from different pasture, good quality) isn't fed much, unmollassed chaff, balancer, linseed and brewers yeast, added biotin. We don't get much mud, we have topsoil over a chalk/clay mixed base so it's pretty well drained. The grass is fairly good for Calcium.

I think the weather really isn't helping, their feet are continually contracting and expanding. I wish he could cope barefoot, but even after having a year off without shoes due to injury his feet still weren't good enough to walk over anything but very soft grass.

 

[siennamum]

I think a significant difference in weather conditions such as these (aside from their feet being so wet & soft) is that the rich grass causes rapid horn growth & the horn is of a poorer quality.

 

[StormyMoments]

i would review his diet... a few years back my horse pulled a shoe off and absolutely mangled his hoof and he ended up having his hoof filled with glue so he could have a shoe back on... not ideal but his feet are huge amount better now since i took his shoes off in october. even though he has shoes back on now my farrier is really impressed in the change in his feet as they just wernt getting better with shoes and im so glad i took them off even if he is wearing fronts again for the summer

 

[dizz4]

I am thinking of getting my horse some boots as a temporary measure til his feet are in a fit state to have shoes on again.....

Has anyone shown in hoof boots, I am contemplating Cavallo Sport Boot....? any opinions on these generally and are they suitable for showing in....?

thanks....

 

[pottamus]

My lad has good feet and does not loose shoes but because of the wet conditions etc he is growing hoof faster than normal. this is causing the shoe to loosen as his hoof grows out and the clenches loosen. So whilst they are on his feet still, his feet are a bit cracked up and the shoes have a slight loose clink to them on the road at the moment. He is well and truly ready for the farrier at the weekend.

 

[Oberon]

I am thinking of getting my horse some boots as a temporary measure til his feet are in a fit state to have shoes on again.....

Has anyone shown in hoof boots, I am contemplating Cavallo Sport Boot....? any opinions on these generally and are they suitable for showing in....?

thanks....

http://phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org/about1073.html

I don't know about showing. Some of the showing fraternity are still insisting on shoes as they are convinced the horse will slip over without.

 

[Oberon]

Oberon out of interest what diet would you suggest to improve hoof quality. My farrier says my girl has got strong hooves but she's got navicular & she's greedy. Regards hard feed she's on small amount of Happy Hoof, hi fibre cubes & equi bites - good or bad would you say for hoof quality? Thanks

The bagged feeds are both molassed (I'm assuming the Hi Fibre cubes are) and the HH is a mixture of alfalfa and straw. Might be a bit much for a horse in light work during this season and the grass.

The EquiBites sound nice but I would be a touch worried about the maize and wheat in them....

I can send you a pm re diet.

 

[dizz4]

Is the chaff mollassed? My advice would be to make sure he is on a mollasses free chaff and cut out the mix - it could be that his diet is too high in sugar and starch.

Also restricting his access to rich grass - again too high in sugar and this year I have seen a notable increase in crumbly, cracked, collapsing feet at my old yard which coincided with horses being turned out onto fresh, super lush pasture for the first time ever... not just a coincidence... this is several horses of all shapes and sizes.

I have recently (four months ago) been converted to feeding micronised linseed and as far as I can see, it is brilliant for the coat (and mane and tail) and for the feet. You might want to give it a try - its about £20 a bag but if you feed a mugfull a day (all that is required) it will last you at least 4 months. You may also want to supplement magnesium and feed brewers yeast. Both made a marked difference to my boy's feet. you may also find with these supplemented, the addition of Biotin also helps.

I couldn't care less whether you want to keep him shod or not but I am pretty damed sure that his current diet is not helping his feet.

No the speedy beet is low in molasses (as recommended by the laminitus trust) and for complicated reasons is difficult to supplement him every day, I am sure this doesn't help his situation.... I may try the linseed as would also like an improvement in his coat....

thanks....

 

[Oberon]

No the speedy beet is low in molasses (as recommended by the laminitus trust) and for complicated reasons is difficult to supplement him every day, I am sure this doesn't help his situation.... I may try the linseed as would also like an improvement in his coat....

thanks....

Linseed is also a polar lipid - so it retains moisture and repels water to the hoof wall....therefore providing protection from environmental factors.

It also provides gut muculage and is a joint supplement....all for £20 a year!

 

[CBFan]

No the speedy beet is low in molasses (as recommended by the laminitus trust) and for complicated reasons is difficult to supplement him every day, I am sure this doesn't help his situation.... I may try the linseed as would also like an improvement in his coat....

thanks....

it was the chaff I was asking about...Is the one you feed mollassed? I know speedi beet is low in mollasses as I used to feed it to my boy - unfortunately it wasn't the best for him so I swapped onto Allan and page Fast Fibre which you might find a better alternative to chaff and Speedi beet. I think it's fab stuff so I'm thoroughly converted!

I would really Highly reccomend the linseed - well worth the money... this is how shiney it makes them!

even if you can't supplement him every day, it would be beneficial to supplement him where possible...

 

[dizz4]

it was the chaff I was asking about...Is the one you feed mollassed? I know speedi beet is low in mollasses as I used to feed it to my boy - unfortunately it wasn't the best for him so I swapped onto Allan and page Fast Fibre which you might find a better alternative to chaff and Speedi beet. I think it's fab stuff so I'm thoroughly converted!

I would really Highly reccomend the linseed - well worth the money... this is how shiney it makes them!

even if you can't supplement him every day, it would be beneficial to supplement him where possible...

No it is Hi Fi Lite and Horse House mix is just a general non heating mix as we don't want any poppy ponies.... I have just ordered 20 kilos of the micronised linseed so I will start with that and maybe get some boots for the meanwhile, it would be a shame if he couldn't continue competing because he can't keep his shoes on....

thanks for all the tips..... very welcome...

 

[CBFan]

No it is Hi Fi Lite and Horse House mix is just a general non heating mix as we don't want any poppy ponies.... I have just ordered 20 kilos of the micronised linseed so I will start with that and maybe get some boots for the meanwhile, it would be a shame if he couldn't continue competing because he can't keep his shoes on....

thanks for all the tips..... very welcome...

Hi-fi lite is still mollassed (albeit relatively lightly). You may be better off with 'mollasses free'... I really would remove the mix from his diet altogether. I'm guessing it is cereal based - these should be avoided! as a general rule cereals are BAAAAAD for feet, although some horses can handle them. In your boy's case, I would avoid them. just because it is non-heating doesn't make it sugar / starch free... I can't stress how much I would avoid any mixes... they smell and look lovely to us but they aren't good for the horse!

Glad you've gone for the linseed - it really is fabulous stuff

 

[whiteclover]

My horses feet look awful. He does normally keep shoes on but Ive had to take them off. He doesnt have backs on anyway. Hes currently being fed half a scoop of hifi lite and 3 scoops of baileys lo-cal. Ive decided to take the shoes off as he keeps throwing them.

 

[irishdraft]

One of my three horses has also been losing a shoe every week for the last 6 weeks, only shod in front and also does not have a great horn quality but can walk anywhere with no footiness at all. As a 4 year old I tried to keep him barefoot but unfortunately he moves toe in and continually wears the outside of the off fore, which is the shoe that always comes off. So i have a horse who is out 24/7 on grass, not great horn quality but is not footy on any surface but wears his foot unevenly due to movement so has to have a shoe on, my farrier has also said he has lots of people calling with pulled shoes atm.

 

[HazyXmas]

No it is Hi Fi Lite and Horse House mix is just a general non heating mix as we don't want any poppy ponies.... I have just ordered 20 kilos of the micronised linseed so I will start with that and maybe get some boots for the meanwhile, it would be a shame if he couldn't continue competing because he can't keep his shoes on....

thanks for all the tips..... very welcome...

Hi, sorry to hijack, but can i please ask where you ordered 20 kilos of linseed from? I'm buying it in small bags & it's working out quite expensive to feed.

Good luck with your guys feet

 

[Oberon]

Charnwood Milling

 

[Mitchyden]

One of my three horses has also been losing a shoe every week for the last 6 weeks, only shod in front and also does not have a great horn quality but can walk anywhere with no footiness at all. As a 4 year old I tried to keep him barefoot but unfortunately he moves toe in and continually wears the outside of the off fore, which is the shoe that always comes off. So i have a horse who is out 24/7 on grass, not great horn quality but is not footy on any surface but wears his foot unevenly due to movement so has to have a shoe on, my farrier has also said he has lots of people calling with pulled shoes atm.

My little arab also wears the outside of her left front foot quite badly and she's been competing at endurance this year barefoot so it doesn't mean you need shoes!

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Am following this thread with interest.......

My boy's feet are awful at the moment: just can't keep shoes on - farrier seems to be in permanent residence (and costing a fortune ). He's always had really good feet before now, so can't help feeling its more weather related as anything else. Haven't changed diet, turn-out exactly the same, plus hard feed etc. Is having brewers yeast plus linseed as has sweet itch.

The main problem is that there's just no horn to use for nailing on, its just all flaky and horrible - and I am seriously wondering about taking all the shoes off, tho' don't want to turn him away now in the "summer" (ha ha).

Am just wondering - today out riding we lost yet another shoe (nearly home thank god); and I'm getting desperate about this now; perhaps I should just take all the shoes off and let the horn grow a decent length and then maybe try again.

But the problem is that we do a lot of road work and I've a friend who does endurance and she basically says we do too much roadwork to think about barefoot. However, as a short-term "fix", I'm seriously thinking about maybe using hoof boots.

But what concerns me is whether they'd last - I've had a brief look online and they're not exactly cheap; plus with a lot of them you have to also buy inserts and soles which puts the price up even more.

My boy does at least an hour's roadwork every other day and maybe two hours at weekends; we do go off-road occasionally but that's mainly pebblebed/common land.

So my question is: (1) does anyone use these hoof boots on a regular basis (and, importantly, do roadwork on them?)

(2) how well do they last?

(3) how easy are they to take on and off?

(4) how easy is it to get a good fit?

Sorry, has just occurred to me that I'm probably hijacking this thread ...... sorry!

Any comments welcome.

 

[Oberon]

But the problem is that we do a lot of road work and I've a friend who does endurance and she basically says we do too much roadwork to think about barefoot.

How much experience does she have with hard working barefoot horses?
What about all the barefoot endurance horses out there (in the UK and the US)?
http://www.performancebarefoot.co.uk/barefoothorsediary.html
Ah but they are Arabs - I hear you say....well my draft has done endurance barefoot and his hooves never looked better.
http://www.progressivehorse.co.uk/html/indiana.html

But what concerns me is whether they'd last - I've had a brief look online and they're not exactly cheap; plus with a lot of them you have to also buy inserts and soles which puts the price up even more.

Yes they are pricey, but depending on how much wear they get, they will last at least two or three shoeing cycles.....if not the year.

My boy does at least an hour's roadwork every other day and maybe two hours at weekends; we do go off-road occasionally but that's mainly pebblebed/common land.

That's not really heavy wear.

So my question is: (1) does anyone use these hoof boots on a regular basis (and, importantly, do roadwork on them?)

I have never needed to use boots - although I do recommend them to someone coming straight out of shoes in order to protect a thin sole. But a horse getting a good diet and getting plenty of exercise *should* be fine without boots long term - unless they happen to be one of the complicated horses with metabolic problems.

(2) how well do they last?

Depends on use, but they are cost effective compared to shoes.

(3) how easy are they to take on and off?

Depends on which style. The Cavellos are easy peasy. Epics and Gloves require technique and fitting - but they are more geared towards the endurance market.

(4) how easy is it to get a good fit?

Cavellos are very forgiving. Epics and Gloves are designed for a perfect fit, so they need sizing properly.

http://phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org/about1073.html (there are some helpful videos in the thread)

I personally think the Equine Fushion boots look really funky - but I don't know anyone who uses them yet

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

How much experience does she have with hard working barefoot horses?

Um, quite a lot actually: without blowing her cover she IS reasonably well-known in endurance circles and she does have a mixture of shod & barefoot horses (in the same way she rides in treed and treeless saddles, if you get my meaning )

But thanks for the info: I've had a look at various websites and if I did decide to go barefoot my instinct was that I'd probably try the Cavello boots in the first instance.

 

[Oberon]

Um, quite a lot actually: without blowing her cover she IS reasonably well-known in endurance circles and she does have a mixture of shod & barefoot horses (in the same way she rides in treed and treeless saddles, if you get my meaning )

Then it's disappointing to hear her saying things that aren't true

I've been involved in barefoot horses for a fair few years now but I have never heard of a horse with a decent diet who wore their hooves down to a nub with work - although I heave heard mutterings of impending doom from people and farriers many times.

Hooves thrive on work and they get stronger (inside and out) with the more work they do. That is why the barefoot endurance horses out there have THE BEST hooves around - although I have found some of the crowd to be rather closed minded when it comes to understanding hooves.
I gave up on the EGB forum when I had an endurance rider (and vet) saying things about hooves that weren't true

 

[cptrayes]

But the problem is that we do a lot of road work and I've a friend who does endurance and she basically says we do too much roadwork to think about barefoot. However, as a short-term "fix", I'm seriously thinking about maybe using hoof boots.

But what concerns me is whether they'd last - I've had a brief look online and they're not exactly cheap; plus with a lot of them you have to also buy inserts and soles which puts the price up even more.

My boy does at least an hour's roadwork every other day and maybe two hours at weekends; we do go off-road occasionally but that's mainly pebblebed/common land.

Any comments welcome.

My comment would be that plenty of horses cope with that level of work without shoes on as long as the work is consistenly of that level and you do not lay off for a month and then suddenly expect 6-10 hours a week again, and as long as you do not go straight out onto wearing surfaces with soggy soft wet feet.

My middleweight 17hh shire cross hunter (you know, the kind of horse that "people who know" would say is too heavy to go without shoes?) does as much as your chap and more during the hunting season.

You won't know if yours can without trying it, increasing the unbooted work gradually, and ignoring feet that are "too short" unless the horse is actually getting sore.

Boots grip well on roads if you need them. They are a darned sight cheaper than using shoes.

 

[LStarr]

Regardless of shod or barefoot, the recipe for the best hooves that the individual horse can achieve :
Good diet
Good farrier
Stable internal moisture content
Correct use of relevant products

Can't change genetics but can make the best of what you have with everything else!