Loss of bone density, osteoporosis

[cavalier123]

So sorry, but this is an essay!! Thank you for reading! My 6 year old cob has been on yard and tiny paddock rest for 3 weeks due to lamenss in near fore, he hasn't improved in this time, although hasn't been on any anti inflammatory due to having some diarrhoea. He went for a lameness workup last Wednesday and the xrays show bone loss in cannon bone and sesamoid bones. The vet advised that this is very rare without chronic infection and she sent the xrays and reports to an orthopaedic specialist, they also are very surprised and baffled. There is no sign of injury, heat or swelling. Possible causes after speaking to vet, would be bone bruise, autoimmune disease or cancerous tumour or chronic infection. Next steps are arthroscopic of joint for infection and send sample of joint fluid to patholigist to check for cell abnormalities, cancer. Also ultrasound as she wants to see if its progressed to the suspensory ligaments (this doesn't make sense to me so i must have this wrong i think...). We are also assessing how he is now he is on anti inflammatories, to see if we can get him pain free. We could do an mri for more information, but he's not insured and vets thinking it probably won't change management and won't definitely give us the information we want. I'm ready to fund an mri, but also trying hard to not waste money, if vet not advising it. I'm very worried about him and his future. He is a pet really, we do liberty work and I have backed him, but im not bothered if he's never ridden again, I'm worried he won't be paddock sound though. Oh and he's a rescue from World Horse Welfare, I've had him since he was one. He was also half starved until he was rescued at just under a year old. I wonder if he didn't get the right balance of minerals for his bone and this is something that has always been there and is now getting worse ?
If anybody has any experience or knowledge about this they could share, I would be very grateful, or any ideas where to look, anything really. Thank you in advance!

 

[Orangehorse]

No experience, but my gut feeling is that it could have been caused by how poor he was as a baby. I've come across several stories of ponies that were severely malnourished when young and went on to develop various conditions.

What would your vet say if you suggested just turning him out, on suitable grazing, for a year to see if Dr. Green and Dr. Gentle but Constant Movement has the desired effect?

 

[cavalier123]

No experience, but my gut feeling is that it could have been caused by how poor he was as a baby. I've come across several stories of ponies that were severely malnourished when young and went on to develop various conditions.

What would your vet say if you suggested just turning him out, on suitable grazing, for a year to see if Dr. Green and Dr. Gentle but Constant Movement has the desired effect?

Hi, yes that’s my gut feeling too.
I'm sure my vet would agree, she said she doesn't want to see him cooped up, if he wasn't in pain, I think at the moment the concern is if we can get him pain free, he's been on anti inflammatory for 4 days now, I've not trotted up so not sure if improved, he seems happy enough in himself, but always has been. He does usually live out 24/7 with access to shelters and hard standing.
She said she was surprised he hadn't improved after 3 weeks. I have no experience of lamenss and box rest, not sure how long it usually takes for improvement?

 

[ycbm]

I think it's extremely rare or even non existent in the UK, but has poisoning by silica dioxide been ruled out? What you describe is a symptom, along with silicosis of the lungs.
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[cavalier123]

I think it's extremely rare or even non existent in the UK, but has poisoning by silica dioxide been ruled out? What you describe is a symptom, along with silicosis of the lungs.
.

Hi, vet hasn't mentioned it, but I did come across it in my research today, so I plan to mention it tomorrow. I'm not sure how they test for it though?

 

[Gloi]

I think it's extremely rare or even non existent in the UK, but has poisoning by silica dioxide been ruled out? What you describe is a symptom, along with silicosis of the lungs.
.

I know that it is dangerous to breathe in SiO2 but I've never heard of it causing osteoporosis though it is needed for bone formation, though it would be unusual to have a lack of such a common substance. Where is the osteoporosis info from?

 

[ycbm]

I know that it is dangerous to breathe in SiO2 but I've never heard of it causing osteoporosis though it is needed for bone formation, though it would be unusual to have a lack of such a common substance. Where is the osteoporosis info from?

It's been found in studies of silicosis in horses Gloi. I can only find stuff that says they have no idea why it happens, that breathing in silica dioxode should cause both silicosis in the lungs and osteoporosis. They don't seem to understand the mechanism at all. But it's a serious problem in parts of California, with big bones like the shoulder becoming so weak they bend and bulge.
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[Gloi]

It's been found in studies of silicosis in horses Gloi. I can only find stuff that says they have no idea why it happens, that breathing in silica dioxode should cause both silicosis in the lungs and osteoporosis. They don't seem to understand the mechanism at all. But it's a serious problem in parts of California, with big bones like the shoulder becoming so weak they bend and bulge.
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I will investigate. Btw SiO2 is normally called either silica or silicon dioxide. I've found the articles I'll have a read,it must be an Americanism calling it silica dioxide.
Interesting reading and I've been reading up on cristobalite. It would be very unlikely the OPs horse had been in a position to be breathing this in though. https://m.minerals.net/mineral/cristobalite.aspx

 

[cavalier123]

I will investigate. Btw SiO2 is normally called either silica or silicon dioxide. I've found the articles I'll have a read,it must be an Americanism calling it silica dioxide.
Interesting reading and I've been reading up on cristobalite. It would be very unlikely the OPs horse had been in a position to be breathing this in though. https://m.minerals.net/mineral/cristobalite.aspx

Thank you for your thoughts on this a d the link. I will speak to the vet this morning about this, taking on board that it's very unlikely.

 

[ycbm]

I will investigate. Btw SiO2 is normally called either silica or silicon dioxide. I've found the articles I'll have a read,it must be an Americanism calling it silica dioxide.
Interesting reading and I've been reading up on cristobalite. It would be very unlikely the OPs horse had been in a position to be breathing this in though. https://m.minerals.net/mineral/cristobalite.aspx

The only thing I could think of would maybe be that when he was mistreated he was kept on old industrial land where there had previously been a process using powdered quartz, like glassmaking. It's a very, very, very long shot though.

Cavalier, will you let us know how this goes? I'm very sorry about your horse, he's the only one I have ever heard of in over 40 years around horses to have osteoporosis of the cannon bone.
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[cavalier123]

The only thing I could think of would maybe be that when he was mistreated he was kept on old industrial land where there had previously been a process using powdered quartz, like glassmaking. It's a very, very, very long shot though.

Cavalier, will you let us know how this goes? I'm very sorry about your horse, he's the only one I have ever heard of in over 40 years around horses to have osteoporosis of the cannon bone.
.

Thank you for your suggestions and kind words. Yes, I will definitely update.

 

[Gloi]

The only thing I could think of would maybe be that when he was mistreated he was kept on old industrial land where there had previously been a process using powdered quartz, like glassmaking. It's a very, very, very long shot though.
.

It does seem to be the crystal structure of the cristobalite which makes it dangerous which powdered quartz would not have.

I do hope you find a way to help your pony OP.

 

[ycbm]

It does seem to be the crystal structure of the cristobalite which makes it dangerous which powdered quartz would not have.

I do hope you find a way to help your pony OP.

There looks to be a crystobalite manufacturer, Hoben, in Derbyshire, though it's possible they just import it and sell it. Their website refers to a state of the art calcining processor.

Cavalier, please tell me to butt out if this isn't helpful, but if the horse was ever kept in the Carsington/Brassington area it could be worth exploring. It must be a million to one long shot though.
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[cavalier123]

There looks to be a crystobalite manufacturer, Hoben, in Derbyshire, though it's possible they just import it and sell it. Their website refers to a state of the art calcining processor.

Cavalier, please tell me to butt out of this isn't helpful, but if the horse was ever kept in the Carsington/Brassington area it could be worth exploring. It must be a million to one long shot though.
.

Thank you so so much for your time and research. I'm trying to get hold of the welfare officer who rescued him to check this out, hoping she will get back to me soon.

 

[cavalier123]

There looks to be a crystobalite manufacturer, Hoben, in Derbyshire, though it's possible they just import it and sell it. Their website refers to a state of the art calcining processor.

Cavalier, please tell me to butt out if this isn't helpful, but if the horse was ever kept in the Carsington/Brassington area it could be worth exploring. It must be a million to one long shot though.
.

Spoke to welfare officer and he was reacued from non industrial area near Nottingham. Just trying to decide if I should refer him to an orthopaedic specialist, my vet not recommending it, think she thinks there is nothing to be done and it would be a waste of my money, but im not sure. If I do, how do I decide who?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Spoke to welfare officer and he was reacued from non industrial area near Nottingham. Just trying to decide if I should refer him to an orthopaedic specialist, my vet not recommending it, think she thinks there is nothing to be done and it would be a waste of my money, but im not sure. If I do, how do I decide who?

I would discuss the way forward, in detail with the charity who loan him to you. they may well have a view.

 

[cavalier123]

I would discuss the way forward, in detail with the charity who loan him to you. they may well have a view.

Thanks ive done that and they aren't really able to provide much guidance.. ive asked them to enquire about a specialist to look at xrays waiting to hear back if they can come up with suggestions/guidance.