Loss of condition and very sweaty- any ideas?

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Izzyella

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Two, probably related, problems- loss of condition and sweat ,I'm a newish owner and really worried please bear with me (or feel free to tell me to stop being silly:p)!

Two weeks ago I started bringing my lovely 10 year old Dales in at night, with his field companion in the adjacent stable, as his field was so muddy. This is our first winter. He has two friends in the two stables to the right and is rarely on his own for more than 10 mins (just while I bring the others in). The first couple of nights he hated it and threatened to jump out- hubby fixed a hinged horizontal bar a couple of inches above the door and I moved his hay net so he can eat whilst looking out- and he seemed to settle, especially as I introduced a breakfast feed and leave his dinner ready so being in means yummy food. Most nights now he walks in by himself and seems a bit reluctant to come out in the morning. The stable is always absolutely filthy in the morning and he always has some hay left in his net (give him two slabs overnight).

He started wearing his l/w t/o rug during the day at about the same time (not whilst in) as it was so wet. He has access to long grass in his paddock most days (strip-grazing) although I have turned him out in the concrete yard a couple of days this week with a friend and ad-lib hay. Problem 1- in the last 2-3 weeks he has suddenly lost weight, going from slightly tubby to hollow looking on his back end and the girth is 4 holes tighter. His coat is still shiny but he looks 'sad' in his eyes (!). My Instructor friend suggested I swap his pony nuts (one handful twice per day with a handful of hi-fi lite, linseed, garlic, brewers yeast and biotin) for conditioning cubes, which I've done. He isn't showing any signs of pain and his workload is the same (hack for a couple of miles 1-2 times per week). Any ideas why he's lost weight and what else I can do?

problem 2- Today I took the two little ponies out of the yard for 20 minutes with my daughter and her friend. Troy had been loose in the yard with them but I popped him in the stable with a feed and haynet to distract him. I came back to find him out of the stable shaking, with hubby holding him and trying to calm him down, sweat was pouring off him (and there was a small amount of white foam). Apparently he started pacing and sweating a few minutes after we left. He calmed down when we returned and put himself away while I untacked although it took another hour or so for him to dry off. Is fine now. When I boxed him to a lesson he was dripping in sweat on both journeys, his personality seemed fine afterwards but he was obviously terrified at the time. Aside from hosing him down/drying him off what else can I do? Should I put a stable rug on him if he's been sweating excessively? I can't leave a friend with him all the time as my children like to hack the two ponies together. Would a calmer work or is that excessive/unneccessary/unsuitable. I'm really worried...
 
It may be normal settling in behaviour and separation anxiety. Many horses if shut in their stable and the others are taken away would pace and sweat up in a panic. So it could be that. Alternatively, lack of condition and excessive sweating are symptoms of cushings disease. Get the vet.
 
Was he like this when he was living out? He may just not be suited to living in at night some horses arent ever happy in.
But as others have said if its been going on while living out to, you may need a vet to check him over.
 
Putasocinit- what do you think it could be please?
Zoe- he wasn't like it when living out but our grass was very lush until the first frosts a fortnight ago and I was having to watch that he didn't put too much weight on. He's only been left on his own whilst I took the other two out once before- he was in the field and could see a neighbours horse, he wasn't happy and paced but didn't sweat and shake like today.

I hadn't even considered Cushings (although I did have our Shetland tested when she had early signs of laminitis over the summer) because of his age, his coat is soft and not very hairy (although quite 'scurfy' on his rear end) and he doesn't drink much but now you've suggested it I think I'll call the vet on Monday as I am very worried. The sheer amount of sweat was quite frightening and difficult to describe- it just came on and went again so extremely and suddenly. I doubt the vet will be able to see the sweating 'in action' but could test for Cushings in any case.
Thank you, I feel better for sharing it.
 
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Even if it may just be a cold or something, it's always better to put your mind at rest by asking the vet. I'm sure it'll be something simple. Let us know how it goes x
 
My mare can do this - no sweat to dripping and foaming in seconds if she is excited/ worried about what her friends are doing (or if she hears dogs barking which she associates with hunting.) I think it sounds like a reaction to being kept in and separated. This stress and sweating can cause a loss of condition. You could try something like Magic calmer or is there a way of avoiding the situations where he gets so worried? I had a pony that hated to be left on her own while I hacked my mare but she did eventually get used to it.

I also had my mare tested for cushings a few weeks ago because of other concerns but she is all clear. I believe there is a free test for cushings until the end of November though so if you are going to do it now would be a good time. (try searching for it on here as I saw it after I had my mare tested.)
 
Izzyella said:
Putasocinit- what do you think it could be please?
Zoe- he wasn't like it when living out but our grass was very lush until the first frosts a fortnight ago and I was having to watch that he didn't put too much weight on. He's only been left on his own whilst I took the other two out once before- he was in the field and could see a neighbours horse, he wasn't happy and paced but didn't sweat and shake like today.
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Even if you had grass i would expect him to gain weight coming in onto hay and feed apart from if hes really stressing. He may not like a confiment of a box or just isnt happy some horses arent.
My daughter first pony could live out all winter hunter clipped with just a small amount of hay when there was snow on the floor she was always as fat as a house. As soon as she came in she ran round the box stressed sweated and lost alot of condition would quiver and everything as soon as she was turned back 24/7out was happy again.
If your worried though the best bit wpuld get the vet for a check over.
 
the loss of condition would worry me but only if he usually seems relaxed in his stable.

the sweating, well he has a winter coat and not sure about where you live but here the weather has warmed up a fair bit, many horses sweat a lot when travelling due to stress (and the lorry/trailer being warm inside) and if he was stressed when ponies went out sweating is a normal response when carrying a winter coat.

my mare was sweating under her lightweight rug today and yesterday whilst just standing still resting so she is back to no rug, he sounds like he needs clipping
 
He's his normal, slightly dopey self! I haven't ridden him but did groom him well to get rid of any remains of yesterdays sweat. Again he didn't particularly want to leave his stable but I put him out in the field, with his friend, and he was picking at the strip of long grass on and off all day. Was running up and down a bit (not excessively and not sweating) whilst he waited for his friend (as I can only take one at a time). I fed them both their tea in the field and have left them out because it's mild and dry and there are lots of fireworks being let off (more than firework night) and I didn't want him scared in his stable if I'm not around. We're going to ask the vet tomorrow to test for Cushings but there's not a lot to 'see' as such. I know he's lost weight but the vet hasn't seen him previously and he isn't skinny. I really hope it isn't cushings...
 
Quick update- the vet came on Monday and took blood to test for ATCH ? which is negative. She didn't test his insulin levels because he hadn't been starved overnight (didn't realise this would be an issue) but she's confident it isn't cushings- based on the test she did do and his appearance. She agrees he's a bit underweight and isn't very perky but he didn't sweat whilst she was there and she said it may well be the change in his routine and lack of goodness in the grass. She did say that she would be genuinely interested to know what putasocinit and CM2581 think it could be (is quite a young vet and was happy to discuss lots of possibilities!) as he isn't 'right'. She was a bit puzzled that, despite his thick coat he didn't feel very warm under his lw/to- not cold but only just warm- it was thick cold fog though. I'm wondering if I need a thicker rug (which seems daft in light of the sweating)

I've left him out with the Sec A for company since last weekend but, aside from not being stressed and now looking like a bog monster, it hasn't made any difference condition wise. I have upped/changed his food as of yesterday so he's now getting (am + pm) 1, couple of carrots. scoop wet fast fibre, 1-2 scoop s Alfa A with oil, crunchy cubes, 1/2 cup linseed, garlic, biotin, vitamins and a big cuddle!
I've also put the Shetland in with them this morning, rightly or wrongly, as she was looking really lonely in her bare patch and she might as well be in with the boys if the grass isn't very nutritious now. There was lots of charging around but they seemed settled this evening and I did wonder if Troy was worrying before, being able to hear but not see her.
I will try to take some pics tomorrow so you can let me know what you think...
 
putasocinit said:
I have my suspicions but i darent say, if it continues call your vet, they would know.
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Personally I would have to say that I am a bit surprised at the cloak and dagger responses on this thread... To me it seems pretty straight forward, this horse does not like being in and doesn't like being separated from his mates, my old mare used to drip like she'd had a bath when stabled and always lost condition when in. Pop him out with a rug, and some good grub and a companion and I am sure he will settle and get better.
 
I didn't klnow that about the garlic, I started feeding it as a fly repellant (still used a flyrug and spray though) and carried it on as I'd read it could be good for breathing problems (which he doesn't have but I thought it might help ward off winter colds and he has had a runny nose). I'll stop then, it sounds as if it could be doing more harm than good.
 
Queenbee, I thought it was probably a stress 'thing' but was a bit worried by some responses in case it was something terminal which horsey people know about but didn't want to worry me with (a tumour? nervous system? something else?) . Cushings sounded awful but at least it was something tangible I could check with the vet.
I had horses in my teens but only bought my daughters pony last year after a gap of around 25 years and then got my Dales and freebie Shetland as companions for him (and the odd ride for me). I couldn't believe that EVERYTHING has changed and I just feel so worried that I am missing something and Hubby really loves Troy. I read this forum religiously and am close friends with my RI, who laughs at the amount of rugs/supplements/luxuries that my natives have. She commented on Troys loss of condition too, which has upped my worry levels...
 
Jools- For the 3 weeks before I started bringing them in I had been giving the boys 2 'slices' each in three piles because the ground was so muddy I was limiting their grass (they were standing on the 'new' patch and eating a 2ft strip under the fence, so were churning up and wasting a 6ft x 20-30ft strip each day- I found if I only moved the fence by 3ftx20ft it all got eaten) but they were quite 'rotund'. The grass was still quite green at that time and they didn't eat all of the hay.
Whilst in they had ad lib hay (Troty also had haylage), always had some left in nets each morning.
I haven't been feeding hay for the last week as I've upped the hard feed and opened up a new section of field so they've had lots of grass (albeit not great nutritionally since it's been frosty). Tomorrow I will be opening a big bale for our sheep and had intended feeding to the ponies in the field as they have been hooning around churning the grass into mud :(
 
Izzyella said:
Queenbee, I thought it was probably a stress 'thing' but was a bit worried by some responses in case it was something terminal which horsey people know about but didn't want to worry me with (a tumour? nervous system? something else?) . Cushings sounded awful but at least it was something tangible I could check with the vet.
I had horses in my teens but only bought my daughters pony last year after a gap of around 25 years and then got my Dales and freebie Shetland as companions for him (and the odd ride for me). I couldn't believe that EVERYTHING has changed and I just feel so worried that I am missing something and Hubby really loves Troy. I read this forum religiously and am close friends with my RI, who laughs at the amount of rugs/supplements/luxuries that my natives have. She commented on Troys loss of condition too, which has upped my worry levels...
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From my recent experiences I understand very much your worries, I would also say that such conditions are diagnosed primarily through a process of elimination. If It were me, I would return your horse to the 'environment and care that it recieved prior to the loss off condition and stress, if you are worried he may get cold out, I would say dont, add some hay in the field and if you feel it necesarry an extra rug, although it is mild at the moment. I have't seen what you are feeding but perhaps look at adding linseed oil for conditioning and forage/fibre based feed, its what I would opt for if you dont have it already... drop his workload for a week and weight tape every day for a fortnight. You need to eliminate the possibility that this is just environmental before looking at the possibility that it is 'terminal' I understand your worries, I really do, but to me it smacks of separation anxiety from what you have said, and from your post title I thought OMG Grass sickness, but then I actually read your post, I fear that the title may have sparked some cautionary responses. You need to eliminate possible causes and by returning him to his previous environment you would be starting this process, it could well be something that is unrealted to this, but your post to me indicates that this is the most likely place to start. Separation anxiety often goes hand in hand with anxiety in the stable and it is very debilitating to a horse, Ebs used to get all tucked up and lose condition, the combination made her look like an ethiopian :( She did eventually grow out of it, but at first turning her out was the only solution. I hope that this is the case for your boy and that it isn't something worse... if there is significant decline or no improvement after/during 2 weeks then go back to your vet.
 
I hope he picks up - I, too, thought Grass sickness. If the weight condition loss continues at a fast rate, unexplained shaking (as in, warm enough), sweating - in odd places, behind ears, cheeks! Aswell as normal places, no appetite and blood tests will come back normal. These were our first symptoms - however, some horses do stress! And shake! My horse got like that off his diet being too sugary. Hope you get it sorted x
 
Queenbee said:
From my recent experiences I understand very much your worries, I would also say that such conditions are diagnosed primarily through a process of elimination. If It were me, I would return your horse to the 'environment and care that it recieved prior to the loss off condition and stress, if you are worried he may get cold out, I would say dont, add some hay in the field and if you feel it necesarry an extra rug, although it is mild at the moment. I have't seen what you are feeding but perhaps look at adding linseed oil for conditioning and forage/fibre based feed, its what I would opt for if you dont have it already... drop his workload for a week and weight tape every day for a fortnight. You need to eliminate the possibility that this is just environmental before looking at the possibility that it is 'terminal' I understand your worries, I really do, but to me it smacks of separation anxiety from what you have said, and from your post title I thought OMG Grass sickness, but then I actually read your post, I fear that the title may have sparked some cautionary responses. You need to eliminate possible causes and by returning him to his previous environment you would be starting this process, it could well be something that is unrealted to this, but your post to me indicates that this is the most likely place to start. Separation anxiety often goes hand in hand with anxiety in the stable and it is very debilitating to a horse, Ebs used to get all tucked up and lose condition, the combination made her look like an ethiopian :( She did eventually grow out of it, but at first turning her out was the only solution. I hope that this is the case for your boy and that it isn't something worse... if there is significant decline or no improvement after/during 2 weeks then go back to your vet.
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this seems like sensible advice to me
 
It sounds like stress to me - exacerbated by the change in the diet. I would remove the garlic, as someone else said, it is poisonous, and get rid of the conditioning cubes, which often have exactly the opposite effect because of the high starch levles. Give him soaked grassnuts, mixed with grass chaff and linseed. You could also add Speedibeet. I'm sure he will do better on a forage-based diet.
Does he really need a rug, or is he getting too hot in this mild weather? Unless he is clipped a Dales pony should have enough coat to live out all year without a rug, as long as he has some shelter available. Why did he need a fly rug, does he have sweetitch? If so check his diet to take out all molasses/refined sugar - this often makes sweetitch worse.
 
MrVelvet said:
I hope he picks up - I, too, thought Grass sickness. If the weight condition loss continues at a fast rate, unexplained shaking (as in, warm enough), sweating - in odd places, behind ears, cheeks! Aswell as normal places, no appetite and blood tests will come back normal. These were our first symptoms - however, some horses do stress! And shake! My horse got like that off his diet being too sugary. Hope you get it sorted x
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I must confess, this was my first thought as well, very good advice from someone who has firsthand experience of this. Think the few cautionary responses were in response to the thread title, no-one wants to scare monger. I hope you get things sorted soon and your boy recovers, whatever the cause. :)
 
I also thought grass sickness thats why i didnt want to say for fear of worrying you, agree go back to diet before weight loss, also check how much you are feeding with hard feed, sometimes it just might not be enough without the extra forage e.g. Hay/haylage esp at this time of year and if anxiety is around.
 
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